Fontremy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 We purchased a property in the Charente Maritime 2 years ago. It's the main house in the village (a big mnor house or debatably a chateau) and we decided to name it after a famous (allegedly) French writer who was born and brought up in the house and whom the village square on which the house sits is named after.A couple of months ago we were contacted by descendants of this writer telling us that we had no right to name the property after their relative and asking us to change it. They seemed to be under the impression that we were gaining commercially from the name and we explained why we had named the property after their relative. We offered to change it more specifically after the Place (square) rather than directly after the writer but they have said this is unacceptable.We are reluctant to significantly change the name, firstly because I have an aversion to bowing to pressure in circumstances like these but mainly because all our marketing literature, website etc are in the existing name. They have now written to say that they will commence legal action against us if we don't change the name to something completely different and un-related. I am pretty sure that in the UK they wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally, particularly if we shortened the name or named it after the square rather than the individual. However, we don't know what the legal position is in France. Does anyone have any experience of such issues or iof not know any French English speaking lawyer who could advise us?Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 As many small businesses seeking to trade on another name have been successfully sued to change their name by the larger better known businesses like Tescos, Harrods and Woolworths your assertion that this would be unsuccessful in England is way off the mark. As you are trading in some form and are clearly seeking to profit from the family name, I think you should change the name back to what it was or seek legal advice ASAP before it costs you an arm and a leg. Even if you are successful in a legal case, you may well not get costs awarded and from what you have said so far I think you are on very thin ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Ron's probably right, but it may also be significant how long your author's been dead and how distinctive the name is.My Mum's maiden name was Shakespeare and I don't remember any of the family taking on commercial users of the name. [:-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 [quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]Ron's probably right, but it may also be significant how long your author's been dead and how distinctive the name is. My Mum's maiden name was Shakespeare and I don't remember any of the family taking on commercial users of the name. [:-)][/quote]As I understand it, you cannot use a name (that is not yours) whilst suggesting that you have a right to use that name - isn't this "passing off" (in UK terms)? The OP's situation is confused because, if M. Hugo lived there, they could reasonably call their house "Hugo House" regardless of the copyright issues surrounding his work - (I think that the copyright time in France is alot longer than in the UK, too).Or summat like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val douest Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I was under the impression (I think because of a posting some time backon this Forum) that in France one cannot just name or rename a house asone wishes. Any name - I believe - has to be approved by theMairie; I assume it must then be registered in some way so it becomespart of the cadastre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jc Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 And presumably a whole new set of fees because the deeds have to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Because this thread involves what may be a legal dispute, please avoid postings that identify the location or specific property in any way.Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Am I being thick here? If you include the name of a famous previous owner in your publicity you are presumably doing so to add interest to the place and thereby increase bookings or raise charges. So you are gaining a pecuniary advantage out of someone else's name. As this person is recently deceased his relicts are upset that their relative's name is being used for your profit and have asked you to desist.Frankly, I see their point. I don't think you have a leg to stand on.Quite honestly I find your original post disingenuous in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Surely there are two issues here.Presumably the place already has a name - in order to identify it to La Poste etc. As other messages indicate, changing such a name, even adding something to it, is most unusual in France. I'm not saying it cannot be done or has never been done, but it is most irregular.Secondly, there is the moral issue of using a deceased person's name without the agreement of that person's heirs.I honestly think that in view of the opposition you have uncovered to the second consideration, you will be highly unlikely to succeed with the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 The first line of their website readsThe birth place and home of one of the most important French writers of his eraand then mentions his name If that is not trying to cash in on his name.Also its tends to suggest that it is still his home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 BAF - no-one has said that it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Dick, Temps Perdu said : Bit difficult that when the original posters user name is the same as the name in dispute... It isn't.I think sticking to opinion about the legalities or even desirability of using the name, is the safest thing and may be useful for future reference. Trying to indentify the location on the forum will end in the thread having to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 By the stony silence from the original poster I guess he has his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 [quote user="Dick Smith"]He meant the website name is the same as the user name.[/quote] No it aint not the website for the name in dispute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I think part of the thread has already been deleted. Quillan had a post earlier today but that seems to have been deleted. I did not see anything rude or abusive in what he wrote but maybe I missed something.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I give up trying to make sense of this. If you do a Google search on Fontremy you will find their website first hit. www.fontremy.com. The house is called Font Remy.They seem to have changed the blurb to take out all reference to the author/previous owner. Which I think is what they were asked to do. And they haven't got back in this thread, so I suspect it is now all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 [quote user="Deimos"] Quillan had a post earlier today but that seems to have been deleted. I did not see anything rude or abusive in what he wrote but maybe I missed something.[/quote]Quillan identified the location, and the author, etc. (Nothing to do with Font Remy, as far as I could make out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 As it happens, and as I have said before, this software never seems to delete just one post, it 'takes' the next post too, so Quillans post went with the deleted post, however, as it mentioned the name of the author in question it would have either had to be deleted or edited.FWIW Copyright laws in France are different and in my view more stringent than in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwyncelyn Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 That is why we called our house after hydrangeas and of which we have substantial numbers in the garden. Call me old-fashioned but to use someone elses name background or whatever is the starting point for legal action. May be innocent by nature but the other side may not agree. I say that as a lawyer with a history and background (client wise) in this area. The whole concept of their case was that we were or had attempted to gain fiduciary benefit from the use of such a name. In essence what was in your mind at the time. It was either that you intended to gain advantage or it was mere advertising gloss. Did you intend clients to act upon the description? If so then I am sorry.....................What was the first year case that came my way as an undergraduate was it something to do with the Carbolic smoke ball company or something like that. I should know I do know but its Sunday and the books are in the attic and that is where they will remain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Having had a look at what I think is their website, those properties don't really need anything extra to sell them to prospective holiday makers. They have the wow factor already.As Quillan's post is no longer here, I would endorse what he said; avoid legal action , change the name and paperwork and put it down to experience.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 [quote user="Llwyncelyn"] What was the first year case that came my way as an undergraduate was it something to do with the Carbolic smoke ball company or something like that. I should know I do know but its Sunday and the books are in the attic and that is where they will remain![/quote]Carhill -v- Carbolic Smoke Ball Company.The defendants, the proprietors of a medical preparation called "The Carbolic Smoke Ball," issued an advertisement in which they offered to pay £100 to any person who contracted the influenza after having used one of their smoke balls in a specified manner and for a specified period. The plaintiff on the faith of the advertisement bought one of the balls, and used it in the manner and for the period specified, but nevertheless contracted the influenza..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwyncelyn Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Sunday Driver I am so so grateful.........and I feel so so foolish. But I can remember the man on the top of the Clapham Omnibus and the High Trees principle and even the Wednesbury cinema case! But of course reality is different as is life! thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I've just had a look at the "web site" with the "name that cannot be mentioned" and its all still there, including the "birthplace and home of one of ..." - so I don't think things have changed yet.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I believe Fontremy owns several holiday rental properties in the same area... If you do happen to find the advert, look at the bottom where it says "other properties offered by this owner". That could be where the previous misunderstanding sprung from.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Indeed it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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