Meat Free Monday

[Christine Animal]

Paul MacCartney has launched a Monday without meat campaign.  They seem to say that the méthane gas emitted by animals bred for meat is responsible for 18% of the GES (gaz à effet de serre), more than the transport sector (seems enormous   [8-)] ).  Anyway, another good reason to eat less meat.   [:)]

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/4/20090615/tod-gb-mccartney-alimentation-cb1d00a.html

http://www.supportmfm.org/

 

[Quillan]

I read an article a few years back about wacky grants given to universities and some UK university was given some huge amount (as in a few million quid) to research animal food to find one that does not produce so much gas when eaten by cows, pigs and sheep. There was some figure quoted like the emmisions from a cow in one day is the same as a car in a year, or something like that.

I did a quick search to see if I could find, which I can't, but I did discover that Australia has announced they are spending $17M (AU dollars, just over £8M) on exactly this problem. You can read more HERE .

So the people who put it down as a wacky grant might be pleased to know its not so wacky after all. Logic would say that instead of eating less we should eat more to try and keep the numbers down and lets not forget the cows that produce milk, what should we do about them, stop drinking milk, veggies drink milk I believe?

Perhaps if we looked at ways to encourage people not to keep cutting down the rainforest's, or any other forests, and start replanting them instead (trees being the 'lungs' of the planet turning C02 back in to oxygen) we might be able to reduce the buildup of C02 in the atmosphere.

Good luck to all those who take up the call, every little helps as they say.

[Just Chris]

I do try to keep out of this silliness, but I can't.

You're not going to "save the planet" by changing your eating habits, that's pure unadulterated stupidity.

You're not going to "save the planet" whatever you do. The planet is the planet, it's existed for billennia with (but largely without) the presence of man, and will continue to do so despite your puny efforts.

What WILL finish the planet will be either an extra-terrestrial influence (asteroid impact, for example, or solar change), or natural catastrophe (like a volcanic or seismic event).

Climate change is here to stay - it's always been here, and always will be.

Not eating beef, lamb, fish, burgers is going to make s0d all difference, even if we ALL stopped (which of course, we won't). I like vegetables, but not exclusively so, and for me, meat will always be part of my enjoyable, balanced diet.

So if you want to indulge your silly beliefs, that's up to you and good luck, but you won't make a hap'ence worth of difference to anything by doing so.

Now you can flame me, and/or argue the toss with me until the cows come home (or stop far!ing), it'll make absolutely no difference.

Chris

[chris pp]

Well that seems clear enough, certainly made your opinion unambiguous and I must say it's more than fair of you to allow others to indulge their silly beliefs.

Chris

 

[odile]

Yes very kind thank you. Well I'll give it a try. Dad was a catholic so we never had meat, or fish (or turtle!!!) - on Fridays.. So I'll make it our meat free day too -

Do you suggest we should use as much coal, gas, petrol as we can, not recycle, or more importantly not generate so much rubbish- lets all go on a wasting spree, and laugh our way into oblivion. Really?

[odile]

FRENCHIE    ARE  YOU  LISTENING?

[Dog]

My father is Buddhist & C of E so we didn't eat meat on fridays or during the day, my mother is a Hindu so we don't eat meat on tuesdays or wednesdays or in the mornings, my sister is Jane so we don't eat meat thursdays, saturdays, mondays or sundays. Me I do not eat meat if there is a D in the day. There are so many better more nutritious things to spend money on that taste better and make you live longer and stronger.

[baypond]

Chicken or egg ? Paul McCartney's youngest child goes to a school that has had meat free mondays for the past year. Now, the question is, did Paul get the idea from the school where his youngest goes, or did he influence the school himself.........

[Jonzjob]

Well there is no way that I am going to give up eating meat on any specific day thank you. Yesterday we had a chick pea curry and it was delicious. We do have non meat meals from time to time, but not to anothers tune!

There is a fart tax on cattle in New Zealand. Leved on the number of cattle that a farmer has.

This thread reminds me of a poem.

What fragrant zephyr ripples warm

O'er leafy bower like gentle balm

To sumptuous meadow fresh with dew

And flowered hedgerows wonderous hue

Through waving grass where insects dart

It's methane gas

A moo-cows fart!

[Owens88]

1) Obviously any one 'day' to do (or not-do ) something is more symbolic than real .

2) Chris, don't we all wish  for the magic bullet. Something that would save the world but we actually enjoyed doing or giving up..

   e.g. Driving at 100mph actually saves fuel reduces emissions and saves lives

         Watching TV  has been proven to help save the planet by reducing wear and tear on it.

         If humans would only stop cutting (or eating if that takes your fancy) grass there would be so much 'green lung' in our cities...

         Middle lane-hogs could be forcibly removed from the road and their cars crushed for re-cycling and the drivers re-used for organ transplants, solving three problems at one go.

 

In the meantime a balanced mixed view combined with some sensible science can't hurt.

 

 

 

John

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="Owens88"]

1) Obviously any one 'day' to do (or not-do ) something is more symbolic than real .

2) Chris, don't we all wish  for the magic bullet. Something that would save the world but we actually enjoyed doing or giving up..

   e.g. Driving at 100mph actually saves fuel reduces emissions and saves lives

         Watching TV  has been proven to help save the planet by reducing wear and tear on it.

         If humans would only stop cutting (or eating if that takes your fancy) grass there would be so much 'green lung' in our cities...

         Middle lane-hogs could be forcibly removed from the road and their cars crushed for re-cycling and the drivers re-used for organ transplants, solving three problems at one go.

 

In the meantime a balanced mixed view combined with some sensible science can't hurt.

 

 

 

John

[/quote]

You missed out smoking John?[;-)]

Not quite sure about driving at 100 mph. It would cause havoc in our village?[:-))]

[Frenchie]

[quote user="odile"]FRENCHIE    ARE  YOU  LISTENING?
[/quote]

Yes, Odile, I was just trying to keep away from this thread..

Everyone knows my affection for PMC , and, just like you , Odile, my parents are Catholic , so when I was a child we didn't have meat on fridays. Why not try and stick to tradition again ? [;-)]

Dunno if it will make a real difference for the planet, but it will make a change.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bawEDh-JQ

[Christine Animal]

What happened to his Liverpool accent ?!   [:D]

 

[Frenchie]

I m French Christine, I don't really realize that sort of thing..

[oldgit72]

[quote]I do try to keep out of this silliness, but I can't. You're not going to "save the planet" by changing your eating habits, that's pure unadulterated stupidity. You're not going to "save the planet" whatever you do. The planet is the planet, it's existed for billennia with (but largely without) the presence of man, and will continue to do so despite your puny efforts. It's not about saaving the planet, it's about saving what we know as the planet for future generations. If you have kids or grandchildren you wil know what I mean. What WILL finish the planet will be either an extra-terrestrial influence (asteroid impact, for example, or solar change), or natural catastrophe (like a volcanic or seismic event). Climate change is here to stay - it's always been here, and always will be. The last 50 years have seen the most rapid rise in temperature in such a short period of time. Not eating beef, lamb, fish, burgers is going to make s0d all difference, even if we ALL stopped (which of course, we won't). Taken in isolation what you say may be true however it's about everyone doing a little bit to make an overall difference.  I like vegetables, but not exclusively so, and for me, meat will always be part of my enjoyable, balanced diet. So if you want to indulge your silly beliefs, that's up to you and good luck, but you won't make a hap'ence worth of difference to anything by doing so. Now you can flame me, and/oto enable r argue the toss with me until the cows come home (or stop far!ing), it'll make absolutely no difference. Chris[/quote]

 

Your posting doesn't make me angry, it is just sad that there are still people who despite all the evidence still talk such nonsense.

[Just Chris]

Actually, none of it is nonsense. My opinions stem from hard, solid and historical evidence gleaned from considerable research.

With respect, I suggest you read Ian Plimer's book "Heaven and Earth - Global warming: the missing science" The stark facts are there - anthropogenic global warming is a myth, and in fact the planet is about to enter a cooling phase, as it does (and always has) cyclically, for many combined reasons, none of which are anything to do with the contribution of humanity.

I'm quite happy to debate this with anyone.

Chris

[Quillan]

I'm with you Chris on this, its a con and its very, very big business and the large multi nationals are racking in trillions of dollars from people 'going green'. Just look at all the 'kit' thats available to help you go green and the cost. The 'Greens' will argue its not the cost thats important its saving the planet for future generations that counts in which case they should pay for us all to go green. What really annoys me is these people always seem to be telling us what we can't have but spend very little, if any, on finding alternative products which meet their  green requirements, don't tell us what we can't have tell us what we can have and how to fund it.

There is another theory banded around and it involves multi nationals and oil. There is a magic calculation based on the price of oil, the amount produced, the technology of getting it out of the ground and when the oil will run out. It basically says that when the consumption of oil gets to X barrels a day the technology for getting it out of the ground can't keep up (they have to go deeper to get the oil out) so the supply will dry up and the price will rise considerably (as predicted by the Hubbard curve which has proved to be quite accurate). North sea oil is a good example, there is loads of oil in the north sea although they can only expect to get a very small percentage out. Demand for north sea oil outstrips the speed of the development of technology to get more out. So whilst they say there is loads of the stuff we simply can't extract it. Therefore multi nationals who use oil products (which account for the majority of oil usage) have a vested interest in making us all burn less fossil fuel (in cars for example). Virtually everything we use today has some form of oil product in it from a humble pill bottle we get drugs in from the chemist to micros chips, plastic in cars, in fact just about anything is made out of plastic or oil derived produce. The companies that produce these items have a lot too loose if the oil dries up or it gets too expensive. Oil for petrol/diesel and aviation fuel is only a small percentage of the total oil used but it could extend the manufacturing life of these companies for quite some time.

Last time I talked about this subject I got 'put down' by those with blinkered views who have been brainwashed by environmental lobby.

[Jonzjob]

I'm with you Quillan and Chris. I have been under the impression that it is a huge con for several years and there is solid proof of it too, all you have to do is lok for it. The multi nationals are trying to cover it up because it gets them large profits. It's the same sort of thing for Monsanto tellng the World that their GM seeds are the only way to stop the  World starving. Then when the pandoras Box is fully open they will be the only ones who can supply the Worlds food. Then they have complete control don't they?

I would love to have been able to listen to these 'scientists' at the end of the last big ice age. They would have been blaming the people who had invented/discovered fire for all of the ice melting.

The climate of the Earth has been cyclic from the beginning of time and will continue to be so until mankind blows it up or we get the big bang from an asteroid, end of story?

[NormanH]

What would help the planet is if people would stop living in tiny villages in energy costly houses, driving large cars just to do the shopping or take the children to school.

[Just Chris]

Norman, I'd be very interested in your reasoning behind that assertion, in particular how it has any effect upon the planet having already established that climate change is not caused or exacerbated by the presence of humanity...

... if you are concerned about pollution, then that is quite a different subject. The two are not necessarily interdependent.

Chris

[Quillan]

There are loads of things you can do to cut down pollution and that is not a bad thing but as Chris says pollution and Climate Change are two different things, one valid the other not.

Going back to the original post I was rather alarmed to be told by my wife that two days ago on MSN there was an article about McDonald's and that France eats more Big Macs than any other country outside of the US. Wish I could find the article to give a link but I can't but then if your wife tells you it must be true. [;-)]

[oldgit72]

[quote]

Going back to the original post I was rather alarmed to be told by my wife that two days ago on MSN there was an article about McDonald's and that France eats more Big Macs than any other country outside of the US. Wish I could find the article to give a link but I can't but then if your wife tells you it must be true.[/quote]

Hardly surprising given the indigenous population's desire to eat the red stuff and from the consencus here among ex-pats that eating meat is a good thing. All that can be said is that they should start looking forward to American levels of health to match ther American diets.

[oldgit72]

[quote]Actually, none of it is nonsense. My opinions stem from hard, solid and historical evidence gleaned from considerable research. With respect, I suggest you read Ian Plimer's book "Heaven and Earth - Global warming: the missing science" The stark facts are there - anthropogenic global warming is a myth, and in fact the planet is about to enter a cooling phase, as it does (and always has) cyclically, for many combined reasons, none of which are anything to do with the contribution of humanity. I'm quite happy to debate this with anyone. Chris[/quote] Ok, lets assume for the sake of argument that your views on climate change are correct. What about the fact that eating meat and grazing is an inneficient use of land and water? that growing vegetables is a much more efficient use of land? What about the reduced risks of heart disease, cancer and diabetes from eating less meat? Together with the remote possibility[;-)] you might just be wrong about cimate change, are good enough reasons for me not to eat meat.

[Quillan]

[quote user="oldgit72"][quote]Actually, none of it is nonsense. My opinions stem from hard, solid and historical evidence gleaned from considerable research. With respect, I suggest you read Ian Plimer's book "Heaven and Earth - Global warming: the missing science" The stark facts are there - anthropogenic global warming is a myth, and in fact the planet is about to enter a cooling phase, as it does (and always has) cyclically, for many combined reasons, none of which are anything to do with the contribution of humanity. I'm quite happy to debate this with anyone. Chris[/quote] Ok, lets assume for the sake of argument that your views on climate change are correct. What about the fact that eating meat and grazing is an inneficient use of land and water? that growing vegetables is a much more efficient use of land? What about the reduced risks of heart disease, cancer and diabetes from eating less meat? Together with the remote possibility[;-)] you might just be wrong about cimate change, are good enough reasons for me not to eat meat.[/quote]

Firstly the myth about vegetarians having reduced risk of heart disease, cancer and diabetes is a load of old rubbish. They are no more less at risk than those that eat any well balanced diet that includes meat. Studies have shown that in reality vegetarians do not live as long as those eating well balanced diets including meat. A vegitairean diet has is relatively low in protein, saturated fat, long-chain n-3 fatty acids, retinol, vitamin B12 and Zn. Vegans may have particularly low intakes of vitamin B12 and low intakes of Ca. Cross sectional studies of vegetarians and vegans have shown that on average they have a relatively low BMI and a low plasma cholesterol concentration. Recent studies have also shown higher plasma homocysteine concentrations than in non-vegetarians. These deficiencies can be corrected by adding various 'supliments (chemicals)' to your diet which somehow defeats the object in my mind. There is a paper written by Timothy J. Key, Paul N. Appleby and Magdalena S. Rosell of the Cancer Research UK Epidemiology Unit, University of Oxford on this subject which you might find interesting and backs what I have just said. I am sure there are many more papers written by others that can point in either direction. The real issue is freedom of choice and I respect that as I respect those that choose to become vegetarians but please don't ram it down the necks of those of us that enjoy and continue to eat meat. To my mind it places 'you' in the same container as Jehovah Witness's and alike i.e. not welcome at my table [;-)] .

As for climate change being 'man made' and the the statement that those who believe it isn't being possibly wrong how do you know that those that say it is 'man made' are right. For every scientist that says its 'man made' there is equally one that says it's not and many have been around for a long time and are equally as qualified. More bias is placed on those that say its 'man made' because of the whole global industry that has grown up around it earning billions upon billions of dollars/pounds/euros.

Edit.: Sorry about the font change, I don't know what happened and I can't change it.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="oldgit72"] Hardly surprising given the indigenous population's desire to eat the red stuff and from the consencus here among ex-pats that eating meat is a good thing. .[/quote]

Please STOP dictating others what they should do.

No one here says " you should eat meat" so, carry on veggie and leave indigenous and expats eat what they like, right ?

Signed : An indigenous about to have steak " the French way" , red in the middle, and happy about it  !!

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