jane56 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I had a friend who used to come over three or four times a week and help me with the renovation of my house. I did not pay him , but used to give him free meals and sometimes buy his groceries on the shop account. Just over a year ago we had a bad falling out and I hadn't heard anything from him until today when a letter arrived. It was from the conseil de prud'hommes on his behalf. What he is claiming is that I was employing him for those nine months, full time, and have not paid him! He is also claiming three months extra for "rupture abusive" efectivly in lieu of notice, one month extra for "procedure irregulier" and one month for "indemnite de preavis" - I'm not sure what this last one is. Needless to say he never had a contract of employment, he was supposed to be helping me as a friend. He maybe helped me three or four times in the shop, most of the work was done there by the time I meet him, it was my private appartment he helped me with. I doubt he was over at my place for 35 hours a week and quite a lot of that time was spent chating, relaxing or eating.There is absolutly no way I could have afforded to employ him, my business barely makes enough for me to survive on - about €6000 a year and the amount he is claiming is almost three times that, plus I'm guessing I'm also going to be liable for his cotisations as well!I guess I'm going to need an advocate, is there an equivalent of legal aid for people on low incomes in France? Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Look on this page to find the nearest advice centre, but it is unlikely to be free:http://www.annuaires.justice.gouv.fr/You may be able to benefit from a aide juridictionnelle, which is calculated according to your income.Outline here: http://www.boursedudroit.com/consultations_gratuites.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Just goes to show what many people have been saying on this forum for years - never let family or friends or visiting tradesmen work on your property as you will end up carrying the can. I'm sorry you have been caught like this,but it is possible you could end up paying a fine or cotisations that the authorities deem are owing unless you can convince the tribunal otherwise. At least there is no paperwork evidence which is what is most important and hopefully no bank deposits by the other person. Suggest you pay the usual 100€approx for a visit to see an avocat to see how you stand - this is viewed very seriously here in France and the prud'hommes nearly always find in favour of the aggrieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 probably totally irregular, but couldn't you get around this by saynig that you were in a relationship which ended badly, and hence he is just trying to make trouble by making out that you were employing him? Might be worth a try, and it could be a believeable story! If anyone tries to discredit it, just say that you never made a public show of affection as the English don't go in for touchy-feely-kissy behaviour. If anyone mentions his bedroom, just say that you had so many rows that he often used to sleep in the spare room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I don't know too much about French labour laws but what genuine 'employee' would work for 9 months without being paid and then wait more than another year before complaining ?It sounds like there may be an ulterior motive behind this and anyway, if you had been employing him 'on the black' then wouldn't he be just as guilty as you ?Still, a warning for those unwittingly 'employing' friends and relations to help out though, and you don't need a falling out to get caught either. A disgrutled or spiteful neighbour would be enough, or perhaps that local artisan who's quote for a new roof you rejected and you did yourself instead with the the help of a couple of pals [blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Deny all knowledge of him as either friend or aquaintance; lodge a complaint with the Gendarmes that he has been harrassing you. Fight fire with fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yes, agree entirely Jura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Never a good idea to lie to the gendarmes....[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 [quote user="Jura"]Deny all knowledge of him as either friend or aquaintance; lodge a complaint with the Gendarmes that he has been harrassing you. Fight fire with fire.[/quote]And when the "friend" can tell the gendarmes your middle name/birthday/where you keep your spare key/favourite biscuit/whatever... feign amnesia as the fire implodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yes. In one breath you could completely confirm the case against you...As SD says, tell the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Why not just fib a bit? Like I said earlier, just say he is a disgruntled lover who lived with you intermittently and is now looking to make trouble. That way, the fact that you did food and housework, and he did the DIY, is a normal arrangement for a cohabiting couple. How can the gendarmes prove otherwise? His word versus yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 A lie is a lie.The OP admitted that the bloke was working for her, presumeably in the knowledge that it was illegal. Why would anyone encourage them to dig an even deeper hole, apart from with malicious intent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 [quote user="nectarine"]Why not just fib a bit? Like I said earlier, just say he is a disgruntled lover who lived with you intermittently and is now looking to make trouble. That way, the fact that you did food and housework, and he did the DIY, is a normal arrangement for a cohabiting couple. How can the gendarmes prove otherwise? His word versus yours.[/quote]Perhaps a bit too close to the truth for the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I can't believe that people offer advice to others which is lying, and may eventually be perjury. I know that it is unlikely that anyone will take that advice, but (and leaving aside what it says about the advisor) if they did it could completely screw up their lives. What irresponsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Sorry if the advice I gave doesn't suit everyone's taste, but isn't the forum is here for people to make suggestions from their own experience and point of view. And my point of view is that, if someone is out to make malicious trouble, then why sit back and allow them (and their lies) to make trouble for you? Anyway, isn't it up to the original poster of this question to read everyone's replies and, according to HER point of view, take on board the advice that suits her and discount the replies that don't. We could continue this thread on honesty for a long time, but shouldn't we get back to giving Jane suggestions on how to tackle her problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote user="Dick Smith"]I can't believe that people offer advice to others which is lying[/quote]Is this not the modus operandi of the legal profession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 There are times when you can take a chance and be "economical with the actualité"*, but this is not one of them.In the OP's shoes, I'd be worried about the lie coming round to bite me in the bum at a later date...* Alan Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote user="Dick Smith"]I can't believe that people offer advice to others which is lying, and may eventually be perjury. I know that it is unlikely that anyone will take that advice, but (and leaving aside what it says about the advisor) if they did it could completely screw up their lives. What irresponsibility.[/quote]Much as I agree with the sentiment, Dick, a lot of people now live by the code that you say what you can get away with. You only have to look at the example of our leaders - Bush, Blair, etc - and leading businessmen escaping jail sentences by claiming to have Alzheimer's disease - and then "recovering" - to see that it comes from the "top" down. Sad but a fact of life, I'm afraid.In this case though, I hope her lawyer will tell her that the details given in OP, if accurate, will be sufficient defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have a suspicion that the OP may have been a wind up or not telling the whole story but it has brought out some interesting outlooks on honesty.Nectarine, what do you consider to be the difference between "fibbing a bit" and what others have classed as lying?I am not trying to provoke you and would really like to know as many times in the past I have been told "I was not lying, just fibbing", always by women and I have never understood the distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote user="Blossom"][quote user="Dick Smith"]I can't believe that people offer advice to others which is lying[/quote]Is this not the modus operandi of the legal profession?[/quote]Absolutely not. They operate on the basis that everything they say is true. Anything they don't want to say isn't said. That's why they make such successful politicians. If they are caught actually lying they are out on their ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 As truth is largely a matter of perception then much of what passes for it is a lie or a fib, to use that lovely word. So, in this case, the difference between working and giving a hand is significant, the intention being in the minds of the participants.For example, "this person hung around and made themselves useful because they fancied me" might be a perfectly reasonable perception from the OP's point of view, whereas "hanging around and being nice in the hope of getting a job" is also reasonable from the other side.Unfortunately the Prud'homme may not deal in truth either from what I have been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 "what do you consider to be the difference between "fibbing a bit" and what others have classed as lying?"It's one of those irregular verbs:I am economical with the truth,You tell fibs,He is doing a five stretch in Strangeways for perjury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 'he was there because he fancied me' , a bit of a fib perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr orloff Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'm sure you are all good people but I find some of the comments unhelpful at best and plain nasty at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Perhaps you are right Dr Karloff but there are issues raised which have been discussed reasonably and in a light hearted manner, dont you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now