dr orloff

Look no further than the shoddiness of the English.  Of course it's a scam.

The French accountants are wrong. There has not been a change to require the declaration of UK rental, that was already the case.  What changed was the method of declaring it - whereas it used to go in one box now it goes in another - and the manner in which the tax relief was applied (ie: from the taux effectif methos to the tax and credit method). In fact the French accountants misunderstand one of the basic principles of taxation, that a resident of France declares their worldwide income and is entitled to relief under tax treaties for that which is taxed outside of France (such as UK rental income).  This is the case in France and most other places.  The French accountants are in short, incompetent.  

Loiuse&Gary, You have completely misunderstood.  You don't have the choice as to where you pay your tax,  you cannot opt out of the DTT.   Your government service pensions are taxable in the UK and not in France, end of story.  France simply has no right to tax this income.  The form you have is to ensure that you are not taxed in the UK for UK sourced income that is taxable in France - bank interest and other pensions.  You are wasting your time.

That won't be much of a change for most people who live in France and have retained a house in the UK since private residence relief will be available for the period in which the house was just that.  If the house is let pending sale then letting relief is available too.  Plus a gain is taxable in France anyway so tax paid in the UK will be offset against the amount due in France.  Plus it looks as if properties will be rebased in April 2015. This measure is really aimed at wealthy buyers of prime London property.   It's not a case of levelling playing fields or loopholes as the UK has had a deliberate policy of not charging CGT for nonresidents in order to attract inward investment.  I suspect this is as much LibDem appeasement and it wouldn't surprise me if once unshackled the Tories reintroduced taper relief.

[quote user="Mrs Trellis"]I'm hoping the CGT doesn't apply to full time residents of France?  The trouble is, it can take so long to sell houses now.  If we rent out the old house meanwhile, I have a nasty feeling we'd be liable for full CGT when/if we sell it. [/quote] If you rented it or even let a family member just live in it then you would.be liable to CGT on a gain.

So what does the €96 social charges relate to? 

I receive an annual statement from HMRC with a tax calculation and amount owed for the year, rather like a simple version of the French Avis D'impot.  It is also available to print off if you sign up for an online account. 

I have always contested social charges on UK rents with the latest HMRC assessment.  They have always accepted it, for example, a 2010/11 statement for the French 2012 declaration (2011 income), so I don't think you will have a problem with your reclaim.  You could always send them the DGFIP email for good measure as well.

I don't think you understand what the proposition means.  It would make no difference whatsoever to how long the government would have to wait for the money.  It doesn't mean the two taxes are merged into one,  it simply means the methods of calculation are unified into one scheme that is based on a banding system, ie: a progressive system, rather than one being a flat rate irrespective of earnings.  It doesn't mean that PAYE is introduced.  It doesn't mean that any changes are necessary to how income tax or social charges are collected or when.  Angela has no say in French fiscal policy, that is an internal matter.  A mistrust of government? that is one area on which I do agree with you, especially the current one. But this is hypothetical and way off the original point of the thread, which is to assist those who have been unfairly subjected to social charges on UK rentals so best to leave these what is fair and what isn't discussions.

I'm happy to disagree.  Actually both the socialists and UMP had some common ground on this as set out [url=http://www.connexionfrance.com/social-charges-income-tax-merger-what-it-means-expats-10895-news-article.html]in this article. [/url]  I don't understand how you don't agree that moving from a flat rate to a banding system isn't progressive (since that is its very definition) but I do agree that the cost of implementing it might be why Mr Hollande has kept quiet about it since assuming office.  Either that or he isn't quite as bold with his statements about taking from the rich and giving to the poor these days.

Without seeing your detailed tax calculation then I cannot be sure.  But my guess is no, you are not.  It sounds like you have been awarded a credit equal to the amount of French tax charged on your UK govt pension, which is how it is supposed to be.  The net result is that you don't pay tax in France on this income but it is taken into account increasing the marginal rates of tax that you pay on income that is taxable in France.  It should have worked like that last year though.

Are you talking about a UK government service pension?  If so then it is not taxable in France but they tax it and then credit the amount of French tax.  If you declared in the same way as last year then there should be no change.  Would need a bit more explanation to advise properly.

Why?  I didn't mention changing when it is paid.   It already is a tax but a flat rate tax.  Merging social charges and income tax would make a far more progressive system.  It would benefit those on lower incomes.  Social charges and income tax could still be paid in the same way but the method of calculation would take into account total earnings.  Hollande was in favour but has gone quiet on the issue.

Mortgage interest is an allowable deduction against rental income, both for UK and French tax calculations.  If that were your only UK taxable income then it would be not taxed in the UK, or taxed at the zero rate, a subtle semantic difference which is actually behind this whole battle with the French tax authorities.    In France the tax and recredit system means the rates you pay on income taxable in France are higher.  Effectively with UK rental you get the benefit of the UK tax allowance but in France that income eats into the French zero rate band, a kind of swap the net benefit of which depends on the rates prevailing at the time.  If you want absolute fairness in the French tax system then surely the integration of the income tax and social charges regimes would be the best petition.

Nomoss, I'm saying neither of those, the first is possible of course although there would most likely be some supplementary income. As a French resident then for UK tax you declare only income that arises in the UK and is taxable in the UK.  You ignore income arising in France and income arising in the UK that is taxable in France.  I do understand the argument that rental income from the UK should be subject to the same tax in France as rental income from France.  But it really is a bit too simplistic.  If that were the case then rental income from anywhere should be subject to the same tax in France but the French tax system simply isn't set up to operate like that.  You would have to change one of the general principles of taxation in France for it to operate as it does in the UK (which is inherently fairer and more progressive), the computer system and all the tax treaties.  The costs would outweigh the tax generated.  Of course a simpler change would be to say the the CSG are not taxes, but it is the French government who have explicity stated that it is a form of taxation to be treated the same for tax treaty purposes as the other taxes - they deliberately included this definition in the tax treaty, it was not defined in the previous treaty which was drafted before the introduction of CSG. Any resident of France can invest in property abroad so the French national is not treated unfairly compared to any other national.  You could equally say that it is unfair that some French residents who invest in an assurance vie pay less tax than someone who has an equal amount of money invested in property in France.  UK rentals and French rentals are quite different forms of income for tax purposes and the fairness argument should apply to either income stream.  All French residents with UK rentals should be treated equally, but they are not, the less well off are being penalised and that is the crux of this whole argument.