Nègre

[Owens88]

Apparently Brown IS used and IS an acceptable term.

John

[Tresco]

[quote user="Cerise"]

Actually, Tresco, my husband - who is Indian and a very attractive shade of brown! - does occasionally call me pink.  As in 'you pinkies all look the same to me!'  

[/quote]

I know, I know! (not your husband, but I have seen and heard similar scenes)

Your neighbours must be very nervous people though LOL

It's just me (here) with the 'thing' about ascribed 'colours'. 

I have no argument with  - and hope I haven't offended - anyone who has posted in this thread. It's all very educational and informative, great links etc.

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Tresco"]

It's just me (here) with the 'thing' about ascribed 'colours'. 

[/quote]

No, Tresco, you're not alone!   There is much study on the issue of race, the message being that race doesn't really exist, and there are as many differences at the genetic level between you and another white person as there are between you and a black or brown or Australian Aboriginal person.

Unfortunately this sort of research is a bit esoteric, and for most people race does appear to exist as a reality.  It's all very well saying we're all the same underneath, but at the same time we're all very different on the outside, and surely it would be strange to deny it?      It's whether you let it matter that counts.

[Tresco]

It's all very well saying we're all the same underneath, but at the same time we're all very different on the outside, and surely it would be strange to deny it?      It's whether you let it matter that counts.

Absolutely. LOL I'm not saying when I see someone coming towards me that my first thought is "oh, there's a pleasant personality walking down the street".

 I've enjoyed this discussion you started  immensly.

[Hoddy]

I have found this thread very informative. As I am only a mediocre French speaker I shall give the word "negre" a wide berth, although I can't really think when I would have wanted to use it.

Hoddy

[Viv]

http://www.ncnw.org/

I have just been viewing this, do you think that sometimes if a group reclaim a word , it can become less offensive? I know that in the instance of NCNW, it is a very old organisation but because they have not felt the need to change the name to something more PC.

Another example is how homosexual men seem to have reclaimed the word ' queer' or 'queen' ,  words that were often used and intended to insult and ones that they use themselves now.

 

[SaligoBay]

No, neither can I, Hoddy!

It's just surprising to see it.  And someone's already pointed out how Britain got rid of golliwogs, but here in France you see the Banania man everywhere (or is it just me? [:D] ).

But you know, I never had any problems with golliwogs, and I was very surprised to be told that liking them should have made me racist.   Maybe I didn't eat enough jam? 

[Christine Animal]

Maybe, one day, when we are really there, this type of discussion will not even exist at all... soon I hope.

Do you remember the ad several years ago for the jumpers (pullovers) "United Colours of Benneton" with children of all different nationalities and "colours" ?

 

[Hoddy]

I certainly do and even longer ago, a picture on the wall in my infant class which depicted Jesus with lots of children in their national dress. Underneath it said, "All God's children." I'm afraid I lost my faith in God many years ago, but in a way I do still believe that.

Hoddy

[Cat]

When I was a young girl (longer ago than I care to remember) I was taught that the correct word was "coloured", and that I should never say that someone was "black".  The situation later reversed, and "black" became more acceptable than "coloured".

Nowadays I wouldn't feel the need to use either word, unless I were actually describing someone's appearance (in the same way that I might say that someone was a red-head, wore glasses, or was ever-so-tall). 

I do find though that a lot of french people think of people in terms of their race, rather than their nationality (ooh dear, is that me making a racial stereotype[:$] ).  Political correctness hasn't yet reached the sometimes barmy proportions here as in the UK (what exactly is the problem for some people with the word "blackboard").  But I often hear words like negre or pédé used here, and it does make me wince!

 

 

[Babnik]

I play handball with a local team, and one of the opposing teams has a very good player who happens to be black. When the other players of my team are talking about said team and more specifically said player, they refer to him as 'le black'. I don't feel they use it in a deragotory way, more it's something he has different than other players, and so it makes it easy to distinguish who you are talking about in a conversation. I think perhaps it's more important to see what context the actual word is being used in. 'Le black est un bon jouer' doesn't sound deragotory to me! He may not agree though. I don't know!

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Cat 46"]

But I often hear words like negre or pédé used here, and it does make me wince!

[/quote]

Pédé is a horrible word.  I think so, anyway.  It's just too like paederast for my liking.  Oh wait, it IS pédérast!   Don't like it at all.   Even if French people don't have the "child" association in their head when they use it, I do.

[Patf]

There is a forum called Blackchat which I used to read until it

collapsed, I think by weight of use. I didn't join as they give whites

short shrift. But it was an excellent forum with a high level of debate

so I miss it. Their descriptive name of choice was black and the "n"

word ( with 2gs in the middle) is hated. So if negre means black it's

interesting that it's acceptable in one culture and not in another. The

american members of the forum seemed to prefer Afro American. Most

members were ultra sensitive to racial slurs while a few couldn't give

a d--m. It was interesting though alarming to see what they thought of whites, no attempt at being PC at all.  Pat.

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Patf"]It was interesting though alarming to see what they thought of whites, no attempt at being PC at all.  Pat.
[/quote]

It's always interesting, isn't it, Pat, to see that it works both ways!  Or even every way, who knows.

I think we're right to make the moves we do towards tolerance.  But it's very easy to fall into the trap of believing that us whities are the only ones who "do" racism.  We're not!  I've been racisted against.  It happens everywhere.  It's a regular theme in the Indians-and-Pakistanis-in-Britain novels, for example, where the original immigrant parents are completely set against their children marrying a local white person. 

Actually, I'd like to know what your black people called us.  Are you willing to share?  [;)]    

 

[Tresco]

Pat. I know the forum you are referring to.

It is still going, but it is now limited to members only, even to just view. I joined long before they introduced the new regs so I can still get in. 

You're right, there is a high level of debate; exceptionally high.

It's not for the fainthearted. It is mostly (but not exclusively) young people thrashing their way through issues. I would say if you couldn't finish the autobiography of Malcom X you would not last long posting there. Or even viewing. LOL

SB will share privately, if you want, in view of the above.

 

[Cerise]

SB you are so right prejudice is not just one way - husband's family had plenty to say when he wanted to take up with a white, non-catholic, divorced trollop like me!!  Mostly the only thing to do is laugh as you can't make people's prejudices go away.   Also think some, not all, people of different nationalities/colour/religion do spend their lives looking for offence where none is meant.  It is after all possible to like or dislike someone for many other reasons than their ethnic origin but sometimes they chose to misunderstand.  As a previous poster said you would describe someone as black/brown/white in the same way as you would say they were wearing a blue/green/red jumper  not meaning anything other than purely a description.

[Missy]

[quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Cat 46"]

But I often hear words like negre or pédé used here, and it does make me wince!

[/quote]

Pédé is a horrible word.  I think so, anyway.  It's just too like paederast for my liking.  Oh wait, it IS pédérast!   Don't like it at all.   Even if French people don't have the "child" association in their head when they use it, I do.

[/quote]

Don't ask me why?... but I have always heard of 'pédé' people being refered to as 'quelqu'un qui joue de la clarinette!' (someone who plays clarinet!...) When I first heard this reference, I must have been at the tender age of 10. In my young mind then I never thought that it meant anything else but someone with musical ability who could play a clarinet instrument in an orchestra... As one grew illusions were humourously shattered [:$] ....   Must have be some kind of French 'polari' talk/speech...

[Monika]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I have found this thread very informative. As I am only a mediocre French speaker I shall give the word "negre" a wide berth, although I can't really think when I would have wanted to use it. Hoddy[/quote]

Hoddy, you could use it when you fancy a "tête nègre", I was pleased to hear they are still called that and still available, they are yummy!

Here in England it is now politically incorrect for children to sing: "Bah, bah black sheep..." It has been changed to "rainbow sheep".

It amused me to hear my future daughter in law who is Brazillian say to my "demanding" son: " I may be black, but I am not a slave!" 

[Missy]

[quote user="SaligoBay"]

No, neither can I, Hoddy!

It's just surprising to see it.  And someone's already pointed out how Britain got rid of golliwogs, but here in France you see the Banania man everywhere (or is it just me? [:D] ).

But you know, I never had any problems with golliwogs, and I was very surprised to be told that liking them should have made me racist.   Maybe I didn't eat enough jam? 

[/quote]

Yup! and the trading standard officiously-efficient man had cometh and telleth unto me 'Get rid of thy gollywogs!...'

I used to run with my Mother-in-law a little gift shop, specialising in dolls house stuff. We had found a source of tiny gollywog men to put in the victorian nursery of a victorian doll house, as they were a favorite toy of the time... They were something unusual and we never got enough to retail, they just walked off the shelf!

Until the sometime-very-misguided-politically-correct club came to town and brainwashed the public opinion...  We reduced the remaining stock for sale and never saw a gollywog since!

That reminds me.. My Mother still has my black doll at her home, sitting proud on the bed in the spare room. I was given it one Xmas as a child.... I loved it more than any other dolls I had... None of my friends in the area had one!... and my kids did send away for all the gollywogs pins with all these tokens from the jam jars... I am sure they were the best customers to this (unamed bespoke) marmalade maker....

 

[Pangur]

For anyone interested, the background to the Banania man - he's based on  Senagalese troops that came to France during WWI. 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/16/features/blume.php

[Patf]

What do the black people call us? It's not so much names as a general

attitude of strong mistrust and alienation. At one time a few people

were trying to drum up a revolution against what they see as oppression

and always being blamed. The most hated are south african whites -

apologies to any on the forum. Which isn't surprising after hearing an

interview with a S.A. man yesterday which I won't repeat as it was so

offensive - hopefully a minority view. Also I hope the views of those

Blackchat forum members are not typical of all black people. Pat.

[Just Katie]

[quote user="SaligoBay"]

Actually, I'd like to know what your black people called us.  Are you willing to share?  [;)]    

 

[/quote]

Honkies innit?

[Mistral]

This discussion came to mind this afternoon in class. We're studying an extract from "and then there were none" by Agatha Christie and we got to a point where a lot of pupils recognised the book and exclaimed "mais c'est 10 petits négres!". I then had to explain that the book's title had changed over the years to be less insulting. They thought that was perfectly understandable, but at the same time none of them suggested the french did the same.

[Missy]

[quote user="Pangur"]

For anyone interested, the background to the Banania man - he's based on  Senagalese troops that came to France during WWI. 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/16/features/blume.php

[/quote]

 

Thanks Pangur. I very much enjoyed reading this article.

If we had sound transmission on this forum I would sing you the Banania commercial jingle so firmly anchored in my memory bank!