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I give up!!

Just Katie

By Just Katie,
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Just Katie Newbie

Just Katie

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[blink]Learning French is like climbing a mountain.  You think you have reached the top and when you get there, there is another drop leading to a further climb beyond the clouds.  Sorry to scare you Pads but that is the way it is.

My mate in work (she's French) said something like............. Tu veut y qu'on alliers plus tard. [blink] Or in a normal language "YOU WANT THERE THAT ONE GOES MORE LATE" Or in English, "do you want to go there with me later"

Well, I think that is how you translate it.  God help me.

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Pads Newbie

Pads

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I know Katie ..... trust me I know. One day I come home from my class on top of the world cos I got it all right ...[:)] next week I feel like giving up as I didnt understand anything...[:(] Im fine with plain translating and know now lots of words and sentances , but trying to put a sentance together some times is like trying to build a wall with the roof tiles[8-)]

But I guess we just have to stick with it..... It will get better and be worth it in the long run ... [:D]    

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Callie Newbie

Callie

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"On" usually means "we" in the general sense, and not "one" as in English.

Yes, learning any language has its plateaux - you feel you just aren't making any progress[:(], then one day, you find you are improving.  But just keep at it and it will come ! ![:D]

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Richard T Newbie

Richard T

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[quote user="Pads"]But I guess we just have to stick with it..... It will get better and be worth it in the long run ... [:D]    [/quote]

If ever you doubt that just think how much more you already know than someone who just couldn't be bothered.

Richard T

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Chancer Newbie

Chancer

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What threw you Katie? As you seem to have translated it correctly.

Was it the use of "on" or the subjunctive form of aller or both?

I remember well the first time someone used the subjunctive of aller or perhaps pouvoir to me, I thought that they were from another planet, her husband scolded her and repated it for me in the normal form without the conjunction "il faut que", I didnt get my head around the tense for another couple of years. Now I know when to expect it, the conjugation still sounds alien, which is a clue if I hadnt realised from what preceded it, and I can usually work out what verb has been abused!

I am guilty of using "on" a lot as it avoids having to carry a lot more punctuation around in my head.

Stick with it Katie, i am sure that the view from the top of the mountain is worth it, I cant say for sure as I am still climbing but it looks good from here!

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Just Katie Newbie

Just Katie

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Thank you all.

JR, I think I reacted to my colleague the same way.  I thought "What the flip was that"?  Then I asked her to translate.

Also JR, your post troubles me, you are obviously more advanced than me because I don't understand what you are talking about when you say that the use of "on" avoids carrying around more punctuation. And using  normal form and il faut que..........[:'(]

Anyway, why do they use this tense?

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Ron Avery Newbie

Ron Avery

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Another example of the subjunctive in English is "I wish (that) it were Saturday". 

A lot of French couples use "on" all the time when talking about themselves instead of using nous, it is also commonly used in the form of one when talking about what "people" do.

Quite honestly Katie, stick at it and don't get hung up on the subjunctive, but do learn grammatically correct French first, then you can use the more familiar phraseology as that way you will thern understand why and how its used.

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Christine Animal Newbie

Christine Animal

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But, do we ever get right to the top of that mountain?  Even if we do, there always seems to be that little crevasse we can slip into.  I sometimes use the subjunctive and J-P looks at me and says, "not there" and I think "no comprendez, it sounded right to me".   [8-)]

Hope this helps a bit Katie, keep climbing!   [:)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFDYkyDOXHs

 

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Chancer Newbie

Chancer

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[quote user="Just Katie"]

Thank you all.

JR, I think I reacted to my colleague the same way.  I thought "What the flip was that"?  Then I asked her to translate.

Also JR, your post troubles me, you are obviously more advanced than me because I don't understand what you are talking about when you say that the use of "on" avoids carrying around more punctuation. And using  normal form and il faut que..........[:'(]

Anyway, why do they use this tense?

[/quote]

Katie

I am going to think hard before replying to your question re "on" so that I can reply properly later. There was another thread where someone explained really well why using "on" is a lazy cheat to avoid remembering loads of conugation and when I read it a light went off in my head as if to say "AHA! - so that is why I do it", I had been doing it subconsciously without really realising and it was I am sure laziness/convenience.

I havnt had any formal lessons in French for over a year and my learning and my use of "on" and the subjonctif  is more influenced by what I hear around me, this forum and perhaps one or two phone calls a month are the only time I use the English language.

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Judith Community Regular

Judith

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[quote user="Cathy"]It's writing letters that makes me want to give up.  They are just so hard.  You can "wing it" in conversation but not so in the written word.[/quote]

I find it harder the other way round - I can manage in written French, though it may not be how the French would say it, but when it comes to speaking, I somehow get all tongue-tied, though if I saw the words written down, I'd know exactly what they said.  I've just been doing some French classes at all levels with the U3A for a few weeks, and I am now finding that I've forgotten things I learnt 30 years ago!  In other words, I've forgotten more than I ever knew!!  As you say, help!

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Just Katie Newbie

Just Katie

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Thank you very much for your help.  I have looked in my hugo book which gives an explanation of this tense.  Thanks JR, I will certainly start looking at the use on on in this tense.  My colleague has told me also that this is widely used.

But I know what will happen, I will learn it get to my plateau then find another huge climb behind it. [:(]  Anyway, it is nice looking down

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Ysatis Newbie

Ysatis

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[quote user="Just Katie"]

 Anyway, it is nice looking down

[/quote]

 

That's spot on Katie, in 12 months time you'll look back and say to yourself, wow, look what I can do now that I couldn't do before.

I'm the same, plod away, think I'm making progress and then I feel like it's all been a waste of time, nothing's sinking in, but it does, gradually. You, and everyone else learning a second language deserve a huge pat on the back because it's far from easy. Keep it at.

 

Regards,

 

 

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Just Katie Newbie

Just Katie

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Thank you Ysatis,

I really am quite fortunate.  A new girl has started work with me and we share the same office, just me and her.  The boss wants me to teach her English and vice versa.  We have only worked together for three days and already she has caused me this headache. [:D]

I suppose people would pay a fortune for that opportunity.

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Chancer Newbie

Chancer

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Katie

Worked late again and no time at the moment to reflect/explain why I use "on" so much but as regards the subjonctif it was one of the many things that I never got to grips with while having lessons but has started to "click" since then.

Acually it is hard to miss in conversation as it still sounds alien to hear and when I speak it I feel like spitting out a bitter taste afterwards it feels so wrong!

Gradually I began to stumble with certain verbs as I sub-consciously realised that I perhaps should be using the subjonctif. I use it automatically now but only with a few verbs where it is familiar to me like aller and pouvoir, when asking if someone wishes or wants that I/we do something and after only a couple of the many conjunctions where it should be used.

Do-Do Time [;-)]

P.S.

What you really need is a second French girl working in the same office so you can hear all the conversations without having to live here.

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odile Newbie

odile

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Hi Katie - most Fench people use the subjunctive in specific expressions, but wouldn't be able to use it correctly otherwise. So just learn to recognise it when it comes up... but certainly don;t let it beat you! Well done to all of you who are really making an effort, rather than shout louder and louder in English. Bravo et bon courage.

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