the law here makes me sick!

[mooky]

I am selling my house and going to UK. Four years ago I married, total, absolute disaster. I moved out after one year.

Bought house my own money, never taken a penny off ex. He has done a house transaction recently. I wasn't notified.

Before I can sign the comprise de Vente, my "husband" has to say that non of it is his, and it's ok for me to sell. I find this offensive.

I have to take him with me to the notaires so he can have this power over me and give me permission.

Why is France so very very sexist? I am so pxxxxd off!

[woody234]

So does your husband still live in the house that you purchased

[Bob T]

Did you not know the rules regarding house ownership when you got married?

The UK is not much better. When my ex-wife decided that she would up and out, she got half the value of the house that she had never paid a penny towards.

[woolybanana]

Hence the value of marriage contracts[:@]

[chris pp]

But it's not the same in France.

AFAIK if you buy a house in your name with your money and then later get married it still remains 100% yours. It's only when you buy a house in joint names that it is split 50 / 50. It's exactly the same with a French inheritance, the person that inherits is the 100% owner and their spouse has nothing although you can give them the right to stay in it after your death should that occur first.

Chris

[dragonrouge]

Being in the law I have let us say a view. My view is despite all of its warts and the like the UK system is much much better than here in France. Its codes are lost in time and the system takes for ever to make even the most limited progress.

Here there is no such profession as a Solicitor and Avocats I have seen better cattle.

Of course have a go at our system and its limitations but it has stood the test of time and our case law and common law approach and precedent is I still maintain a good system.

It is entirely a differing view as to our Judges and here I am not to be quoted.

[mooky]

We have a married contract. That states that all mine is mine and all his is his. I left his house, and bought my own . I have never used his name, we are taxed as seperated, have never shared bank accounts, health etc, all in different names. When I bought my house my notaire knew the situation. My husband wasn't asked if it was alright.A year or so ago, a relative gifted her house in France to him. I didn't even know, although I had spent money on it. It just seems it is a thing against women. It creeps me up hes workrd on the black for 20 years, and only declared a tax form because I insisted two years ago; It's one rule for males, another for women. It makes me angry when I have worked in a good proffesional staus all my life. To have to beg him to come with me to the notaires makes me angry.

I know he will read this because I have told him too. I don't have secrets from him. There feel a bit better now!

[Scooby]

I can't say I have any experience of French law but the sexist attitude towards women in rural France is certainly archaic.  The view that it is the role of women to have the man's lunch on the table at 12, to be responsible for anything to do with children, care of elderly relatives etc harks back to 50's England.

[chris pp]

I thought that was what Brits liked about France, that it was quaint and how the UK used to be, that's what they tell me anyway. That and the fact that they come here to integrate and live like the French.

Chris

[mint]

Yes, it is truly dreadful.  In fact, I suffered quite a nasty bout of depression last winter and I think that, at least partly, it was because I felt an utter loss of identity and I was grieving for my lost self.

I was my own person until I came here and now, after having been an independent entity and having earned my own living since the age of 18, I am suddently someone's "dependent".[:@] 

[NormanH]

[quote user="chris pp"]

I thought that was what Brits liked about France, that it was quaint and how the UK used to be, that's what they tell me anyway. That and the fact that they come here to integrate and live like the French.

Chris

[/quote]

Yes it's the 'Lifestyle' that so many idiots pretend is their 'Dream'..[:D]

[AnOther]

You do have such a delightful way with words Norman, alumni of the Attila the Hun charm school are we :D]

[Clair]

[quote user="Scooby"]I can't say I have any experience of French law but the sexist attitude towards women in rural France is certainly archaic.  The view that it is the role of women to have the man's lunch on the table at 12, to be responsible for anything to do with children, care of elderly relatives etc harks back to 50's England. [/quote]

I didn't know I had to do that! Someone should have told me!! [:-))]

[parsnips]

[quote user="mooky"]

We have a married contract. That states that all mine is mine and all his is his. I left his house, and bought my own . I have never used his name, we are taxed as seperated, have never shared bank accounts, health etc, all in different names. When I bought my house my notaire knew the situation. My husband wasn't asked if it was alright.A year or so ago, a relative gifted her house in France to him. I didn't even know, although I had spent money on it. It just seems it is a thing against women. It creeps me up hes workrd on the black for 20 years, and only declared a tax form because I insisted two years ago; It's one rule for males, another for women. It makes me angry when I have worked in a good proffesional staus all my life. To have to beg him to come with me to the notaires makes me angry.

I know he will read this because I have told him too. I don't have secrets from him. There feel a bit better now!

[/quote]

Hi,

     If as you say you are married in "separation des biens" then the house is yours, but he is probably being involved in the transaction because there is a principle of "récompense", whereby if a divorcing spouse can prove that they contributed financially to the acquisition of,say, a house wholly in the name of the other spouse ,then some monetary compensation may be due. In this case the notaire is probably trying to establish that no such obligation exists.

[Scooby]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Scooby"]I can't say I have any experience of French law but the sexist attitude towards women in rural France is certainly archaic.  The view that it is the role of women to have the man's lunch on the table at 12, to be responsible for anything to do with children, care of elderly relatives etc harks back to 50's England. [/quote]

I didn't know I had to do that! Someone should have told me!! [:-))]

[/quote]

Clair, maybe it's just those in our village that we know reasonably well.  One of them was on the phone last night complaining about the fact that she just feels an appendage to her OH.  She wanted to take a long soak in the bath but couldn't because she had to prepare dinner, put son to bed, bathe elderly father-in-law along the road...while OH was planning an evening with his friends.   If she is at our house in morning, we can see her getting visibly more stressed as 11.30 approaches - needing to leave so she can be sure to have lunch on the table at 12.00 noon sharp.  We've also been at the house when dinner has been late (for very reasonable reasons) and heard her OH rant! If that were me, OH would be making his own dinner!! 

Her OH was completely shocked when my sister and I said that it would be us stripping walls, replacing skirting, sanding, putting up the toile de verre etc....our (male) OH's were at home with the kids [;-)]

NormanH - Very true!  The reason most people cite for moving to rural France is the single biggest reason why I would never want to be there permanently.  The 1950's may look very wonderful and rosy with hindsight but there was a hell of a lot wrong in that era too.

[woolybanana]

Even in rural France, amongst the younger people, the traditional male/female roles are changing, especially where both work.

[Clair]

[quote user="Scooby"]We've also been at the house when dinner has been late (for very reasonable reasons) and heard her OH rant! If that were me, OH would be making his own dinner!![/quote]

My opinion too!! I instinctively buck when I come across these attitudes and my comment was highly ironic [:)]

I don't pay any attention to what my neighbours think or expect I should do because I am a woman....

[woolybanana]

So, he is henpecked then?[6]

[mooky]

Well. I took a big deep breath and took hubby with me to initial my comprise de vente. Notaire had thought he lived in the same house. I think it was too complicated for Notaire. Me being me them objected to being called Madame, as on official papers I am The Rev'd Dr.

Notaire said in perfect english, "my you are a little suffragettaren't you". He told me that women are the "chattel of men" so I told him to get stuffed;

However dear hubby was very kind and said his dear wife could have the house she bought and renovated with her own money. Then he asked if he sold his house in future would I have to sign, and was told no, as I would be living in UK!

I didn't burn my bra for all this crap, but I left the notaires office humbly and thanking these wonderful men for their assistance and thoughtfulness.

So many french women, and a few english have told me they wish they were in my situation. having my own money, house, car. All I've ever wanted is a loving caring equal relationship, sadly its just not to be.

[cooperlola]

When god created man, she was only practising.

I just loved your post (above), Mooky; it gave me a laugh.  That attitude is alive and well and living not just in France, but in the UK (and doubtless elsewhere also.)  I have been having a discussion on another (somewhat testosterone-fuelled, as it's sports car based) forum, where a number of the men are complaining that their wives "won't let them" come to Le Mans this year.  I have to wonder what kind of a relationship is based upon one partner (of whichever sex) having to get the permission of the other before doing anything.  What is that about?  Surely in this day and age couples should have enough respect for one another that they don't feel they need some kind of rubber stamp (legal or otherwise) before they do anything?  If I thought I had to ask my o/h's permission before doing something, I'd have dumped him years ago.  Of course, some decisions couples have to make together but to my mind, the basis of a good relationship is knowing when that's necessary, and when it isn't.

I find this very strange, and the fact that the law still reflects this kind of archaic attitude is typical.  It's your house - you should be able to do what you wish with it.  I would have been as wound up as you were.  Grrr. I can see the financial argument if you are both living under the same roof, as your husband may have been financially dependent upon you (as many women are on their husbands) and in such a case they should, of course, have some stake in their own home, whether they have paid for the actual bricks and mortar or not, but that was clearly not the case here.

I'm glad the little chaps came to the conclusion that your hard-earned money and property is yours.  Result.

[AnOther]

[quote user="cooperlola"]I have been having a discussion on another (somewhat testosterone-fuelled, as it's sports car based) forum, where a number of the men are complaining that their wives "won't let them" come to Le Mans this year.[/quote]In the current economic climate I think you have to consider the possibility that this year it's a toss up between Le Mans for him or a holiday for the family [:'(]

[cooperlola]

That is not my point.  If there are financial difficulties, then surely both parties know this, in which case why is the husband moaning about his meanie wife "not letting him" do what is really important to him?  If he were saying the budget wouldn't stand it, then fine, but that's not what's being said.  "She" (often followed by the insulting "who must be obeyed" - and I love Rumpole, btw) is being blamed, not the ecomomic climate.

[woolybanana]

Irony, Coops, irony!

[cooperlola]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

Irony, Coops, irony!

[/quote]Of course it was ironical for Rumpole, but that's not how it is meant in this context, W/B.  I think I can spot true irony when I see it, thanks.[;-)]

[Mme poivre]

I believe these People are just letting off steam they really want to go to le mans but know what they should/should not do with their hard earn cash and are rebelling against it in the only way they know how[:D]