Too many immigrants?

[groslard]

I have seen these problems in France:

Excessive immigration into France by people who have no wish to

integrate, who don't bother to learn the language before they arrive,

and who set up ghettos where they mix only with others who speak their

language.

A refusal to accept the French principal of laïcité, and attempts

to impose an alien religion and observances on their communities in

their own language

Attempts at the destruction of the French identity by people who

don't know about French history, don't understand how things are done

here, and try to insist that it would be better if it were more like in

the country of their origin.

Excessive house prices caused by excessive immigration, meaning

that young French people can no longer buy houses in their own

communities.

These are the Brits abroad.

[Rose (& Greyman)]

Oh boo hoo ! Welcome to the modern world and modern europe. If France wants to create the Peoples Republic of France and close it's borders then that is an option open to the voters - it's still a democracy. I don't see it happening though ! If some people choose to behave in this way then they are entitled to. It may not be in their best interests if they want to enjoy life to the full in their new country of choice but it's their life. I don't really see a few Brits changing French culture any more than all the French in London are going to turn it into Gay Paris.

I haven't noticed many young French people buying dilapidated barns in this corner of the world nor retired Brits buying apartments in central Perigueux but perhaps I don't know much about the French housing market. Where I moved from young people couldn't afford to get on the housing market either but it had nothing to do with immigrants.

And how are these people living in ghettos imposing anything on their French communities. Isn't that the point of ghettos - they don't interact much with the outside world ?

And maybe perhaps France could learn something from Britain just as Britain could learn from France. Why not take best practice from wherever and share it.

I for one consider myself a European who just happens at the moment to be living my life in this part of Europe. I conform to practices and pricipals that best suit my own and my family's lifestyle. If I don't like snails I won't eat them. If I'll get by better speaking French I'll speak it. You only have to look at the queues at MacDonalds to appreciate that it's not possible to impose a culture on the people - it will develop based on what the people want.

Long live democracy and the free world.[;-)]

[woolybananasbrother]

So, it is a civilizing mission then?

[Tresco]

[quote user="groslard"]

I have seen these problems in France:

...A refusal to accept the French principal of laïcité, and attempts

to impose an alien religion and observances on their communities in

their own language

[/quote]

What have I missed here? What have Brits been up to in this regard?

[Dick Smith]

The Return of the Jedi?

[Tresco]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]The Return of the Jedi?[/quote]

I wish a Jedi Knight would call round here sometime, rather than the Jehovas Witnesses.

There are a lot of people who claim to be of the Jedi ilk in UK. I suppose some of them have moved here and may be trying to 'impose' their 'religion' on the French.

Sorry Groslard...I know your post was serious but I'm having trouble with that part of it, (about religion), in particular.

[Just Katie]

Perhaps they should be rounded up and deported, the lot of 'em!

Seriously, more retirees are attracted to living in France than the young because, to put it bluntly, we are all aware that employment opportunities are pretty dire.  I remember in early 90's, the French friends I have were showing concerns that their rural towns were dying as youngsters were moving away to chase better oppotunity.  Now, they are showing concerns that the Brits are moving there to die.

It is a pity because, if it wasnt for these retirees, their rural property would still stand empty as employment opportunity remains bleak, and the Brits money would not be pumped back into the local economy also, the land owners would not have cashed in on their piles of stones!

Sorry if all that sounds a bit bigotted.

Finally, although I would certainly integrate if I moved to France, I can well understand the older generation who choose to flock with their own, and taking on a new language would be very difficult for most retirees. 

Sorry if that sounds a bit ageist.

 

[Frederick]

Groslard .....in the village my place is in when it comes to speaking with those who only speak my language  I have a bit of a problem ....In a village of many holiday homes I find my non French  neighbours living close by  if their number plates are anything to go by are mostly Dutch or German ..........languages I do not speak ..or Irish ....and I can just about understand them......As for the 11 other English housholds I am informed I  share the village with when there........ like me they do their own thing !

[Eos]

[quote user="Frederick"]...mostly Dutch or German ..........languages I do not speak ..or Irish ....and I can just about understand them......[/quote]

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to speak more slowly if they realised how they are inconveniencing you. Or maybe it's deliberate...

[groslard]

[quote user="Tresco"][

Sorry Groslard...I know your post was serious but I'm having trouble with that part of it, (about religion), in particular.

[/quote]

I think you underestimate the separation between

Church and State in France, which goes back to the Revolution in its

roots, and to the law of the 9th of December, 1905.

Many of my French friends would be unhappy to speak of religion in a definition of what is French.

Obviously with the established Church in the UK, British people

here often have difficulty in understanding that, asking for example

why there is no carol service at the local school, or wondering why

sometimes Easter isn't at the centre of the holidays.

These are a trivial examples, but no French person politician would

say "God save la France" or "God save the Président"..and it shocks

them to hear GWB say "God save America" or talk of praying.

In short I think that Anglophones tend to bring a different

attitude to religion, which is much closer to that of Islam that that

of the French.

[raindog]

groslard - why are you picking on Brits? I thought every nation/race in the world was the same. That's why you get "Chinatown", "Little Italy", "Iranian Quarter" etc etc in every big city in the world. I'd say Brits integrate better than alot of other nations when they emmigrate.

 And as you're lumping all Brits together, presumably you're including yourself in this criticism?

(or are you somebody special from outside the uk?)

 "In short I think that Anglophones tend to bring a different

attitude to religion, which is much closer to that of Islam that that

of the French."

are you serious, or is this a wind-up born out of boredom?

[Tony F Dordogne]

No Raidog, he's just being his usual self as he has done on other fora on France.

[mint]

[quote user="Tresco"][quote user="Dick Smith"]The Return of the Jedi?[/quote]

I wish a Jedi Knight would call round here sometime, rather than the Jehovas Witnesses.

[/quote]

Careful, Tresco!  Some of my best friends are Jehovah's Witnesses!

Can't allow these poor, gentle and long-suffering folk to be maligned in this way.

Seriously, I have met quite a few Witnesses in the course of my life and work (including some since I have been in France) and I have found that, of all the ones I have met, they are, without exception, very kindly and gentle in their ways and in their speech.  Either only a certain type (masochists, I would think) get attracted to this sect or the teachings of their religion has turned them into such inoffensive creatures.

 

[Tresco]

[quote user="groslard"]

I think you underestimate the separation between

Church and State in France, which goes back to the Revolution in its

roots, and to the law of the 9th of December, 1905.

Many of my French friends would be unhappy to speak of religion in a definition of what is French.

Obviously with the established Church in the UK, British people

here often have difficulty in understanding that, asking for example

why there is no carol service at the local school, or wondering why

sometimes Easter isn't at the centre of the holidays.

These are a trivial examples, but no French person politician would

say "God save la France" or "God save the Président"..and it shocks

them to hear GWB say "God save America" or talk of praying.

In short I think that Anglophones tend to bring a different

attitude to religion, which is much closer to that of Islam that that

of the French.

[/quote]

I think you're reaching too far with this one, Groslard.

The majority of the UK population has nothing active to do with any religion, and don't want to hear politicians invoking it, either.

It may be that most of the Brit immigrants you've met here fall into an older age group, which has a higher number of practicing Christians (for example), in which case it's understandable that they would seek to continue attending services, but that does not equate with them trying to 'impose' their religion on the French, any more than the 4,000 or so Rastafarians are 'imposing' their religion on others in Britain.

BTW the separation of Church and State was one thing I did know about. I read it in about thirty books before I came to live here. [;-)]

It does tickle me to see some people on forums bewailing the so called 'banning' of Nativity Plays etc. in UK, and citing such things among the reasons they're moving to France though.

[Kitty]

[quote user="Eos"]

[quote user="Frederick"]...mostly Dutch or German ..........languages I do not speak ..or Irish ....and I can just about understand them......[/quote]

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to speak more slowly if they realised how they are inconveniencing you. Or maybe it's deliberate...

[/quote]

Round here, there are a lot of Germans, who tend to be quite brusque in their manner and a little bit rude to shopkeepers etc.  They speak in English and so the French think that they are Brits.  Standing in queues, I see them in action and so when I get to the head of the queue, I tell the assistant that they weren't British.

Does that sound familiar wherever you are or am I being a typical 'Little British'?

 

[Kitty]

I've just remembered something else. 

I was speaking to a fellow Brit about 6 months' ago and she said that she liked it in the South West of France because there are few immigrants.  I looked at her and said that there are lots of immigrants.  "Where?" she said.  "Here" I answered "We are the immigrants...."

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="groslard"]
Excessive house prices caused by excessive immigration, meaning that young French people can no longer buy houses in their own communities.
[/quote]

Er I would like to answer that one as it is something I know a little about. The young French move to the UK (and other EU countries), they get very good jobs, live in ghettos (well north of Chalk Farm in London) have their own bars, restaurants, news papers and even boule dromes with no attempt to integrate. You walk down the street and all you can hear is French and there are about 80,000 of them in that area alone

My neighbours daughter and husband live and work in Brighton, they have bought a house there and are quite happy (they are JW's by the way not that it matters). They have a plan and will return to France in 7 years time and buy a restaurant and have kids.

Now consider why they are there, to make money and return to France and settle down is the answer. They get access to a completely FREE health system, no 70% stuff in the UK unlike France, from the moment they arrive. I didn't hear anyone English complain about the French being there.

Clearly the stuff about comparing us to Muslims and the other comments are racist and geared to inflame but like most racist you have little or know idea of what you are talking about.

As far as religion is concerned I have seen more French in churches here than I have seen English in English churches who, if you have not heard, are suffering very badly by falling congregations caused mainly by the fact that the Brits are not particularly openly religious. Our attitude, in general, to other religious is to each his/her own.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="groslard"]

Excessive house prices caused by excessive immigration, meaning that young French people can no longer buy houses in their own communities.

[/quote]

Perhaps if the sellers of the houses reduced the prices to a level affordable by young French people your problem would be solved. It is after all NOT the buyer who decides the price. So who is to blame, what nationality are the sellers?? Could old fashioned greed have anything to do with it?

Would the young French people be interested in buying the average run down rural property favoured by Brits? doubtful, especially given the lack of job opportunities in rural areas.

[raindog]

[quote user="powerdesal"]

[quote user="groslard"]

Excessive house prices caused by excessive immigration, meaning that young French people can no longer buy houses in their own communities.

[/quote]

Perhaps if the sellers of the houses reduced the prices to a level affordable by young French people your problem would be solved. It is after all NOT the buyer who decides the price. So who is to blame, what nationality are the sellers?? Could old fashioned greed have anything to do with it?

Would the young French people be interested in buying the average run down rural property favoured by Brits? doubtful, especially given the lack of job opportunities in rural areas.

[/quote]

I aways use this argument myself. The buyer can only pay the asking price. Pure greed is at the bottom of this problem.

I think we've taken groslard's thread too seriously. His comments are so daft I think he's having a laugh and trying to wind us up.[:)]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="raindog"] 
I think we've taken groslard's thread too seriously. His comments are so daft I think he's having a laugh and trying to wind us up.[:)]
[/quote]Perish the thought.

[Quillan]

I think its lack of employment and decent wages. We have around 18% unemployment here and that's why the youngsters leave. It does not matter what price the houses are if you have no job. I base this on my neighbours daughter who has bought a 3 bed semi in Brighton which is not a cheap place. They are playing the percentage and exchange rate game believing they will be able to buy a nice place in France with the money they make on selling their house in the UK in 7 years time. I'm not so sure myself but we will see. Just another small dig, she said "the English never seem to stop working. They work from nine in the morning to nine at night, they never seem to enjoy themselves" and this is Brighton? Whatever, she still thinks we work much harder than the French which is grand coming from her (being French and all).

Ditto the last two comments (oops Coops snuckered one in while I was typing [;-)] ), it's exactly what I say. I had a bit of an argument a few years back in a bar with a local chap about high prices and said exactly that. Six months down the road his mum sadly died and he asked me if I knew any English people who might give him a good price for the house. After all the English always pay over the odds. The French are no different to us in this respect, look at house prices in rural Britain, the British young people have the same problem. I hear it's all of Europe in general these days and is happening with the new countries that have recently entered the EU. At the end of the day we all want as much money as we can for our house.

[Just Katie]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 At the end of the day we all want as much money as we can for our house.

[/quote]

Of course, and, it is not greed, it is obtaining market value which is the price paid from a willing buyer to a willing seller.

[LisaJ]

For a country that is as secular as Groslard is trying to have us believe, there seem to be a remarkable number of Saints days and religious holidays. I don't think Ascension would mean much to many people in England any more, let alone Assumption - and as for which Saint's day you have to wait for before you can put out your bedding plants....

regards

Lisa

[Quillan]

[quote user="LisaJ"]

For a country that is as secular as Groslard is trying to have us believe, there seem to be a remarkable number of Saints days and religious holidays. I don't think Ascension would mean much to many people in England any more, let alone Assumption - and as for which Saint's day you have to wait for before you can put out your bedding plants....

regards

Lisa

[/quote]

That's why Napoleon separated the state from the church. You see they kept having all these religious holidays so every time they went to war they lost (bit like us nipping over to help out in WW1 and 2) for further reading, and to back up my claim, have a look at French Military History [;-)]

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

 

[tegwini]

Thanks to Quillan & others for pointing out that loads of French are now in the UK - recently I read of 400,000.   All to make money & presumably re-patriate it.  Even a few in my small village in southern Wiltshire & some I know at school; one even with a UK grant re-qualifying to teach here- no jobs for her in Normandy.

We Brits bring money into France, employ French artisans, spend our money on house removations, etc & etc

THAT, post must be wind-up, can't possibly be serious!

Tegwini