French resident leaves UK debt after death

[RPG]

Hi there....

I am trying to help a friend whose husband has recently died in France.... basically, the deceased, who was a french resident left a debt with a UK bank with the account being registered at the French address.

The deceased is survived by his wife - also a french resident. There are also 4 children from previous marriages (all UK residents). There is no property (globally) just cash assets which is in english and french bank accounts. They also had french and english wills.

My question is.... Does the debt die with the deceased? If not, who is liable for the debt...? The spouse? All the children? The deceased's children? Is the deceased's estate liable? Which estate (UK or French) should the debt be paid out of? Does the cash in England come under French inheritance law?

So in short... How does French inheritance law deal with debt that is held by it's residents in other countries?

The reason I ask is because the notaire being used by my friend is unsure how to deal with the issue so is dragging his feet and shrugging his shoulders. Obviously my friend wants to get stuff sorted out so any advice, thoughts or help would be greatly received.

[Val_2]

Not a lot of help but when my friend's husband died here in France he held UK bank accounts and she had to pay tax on those accounts because they were outside France and classed as world wide assets of the deceased when the inheritance was settled here in France between her and their daughter over the estate. I would have thought the french notaire dealing with the inheritance here would be able to find out via the french fisc about these debts and they would inform the UK bank. Professional help is needed on both sides.

[cooperlola]

My own instinct would be to look at the terms of the loan (credit card, maybe?) and find out from the lender what they were. I can well see that a French notaire wouldn't know. Maybe it's time to engage a UK solicitor?

[pachapapa]

Accepter ou répudier la succession.

Complex issue as there appear to be co-heritiers.

But if the passif is greater than the actif then repudiation of the succession could be considered.

http://www.pap.fr/conseils/succession/accepter-ou-refuser-la-succession/accepter-ou-refuser-la-succession-a1670

[Rabbie]

In England the debts should be paid by the estate. That's why you see two values quoted for the value (one gross, one net) in the recent wills bit in the Times and other posh papers.

[Russethouse]

Surely the debts are paid out of the estate before any further division of assets ? But it may be worth checking if there was any insurance for this debt, for instance that may have been in place if the outstanding monies were part of a loan

 We dealt with an instance where the debts died with the deceased, they had no assets at the time they died and it is not, as I understand it, under English law, recoverable through the relatives....however if they do have assets then the debts have to be paid....

[mogs]

When my brother in law died 8 years ago (in UK) my sister found out after his death that he owed a credit card some considerable sum of money.

She was liable to pay the outstanding amount (although assumed the debt would die with him)and fortunately the insurance paid out and he was well covered so at least she didn't have that worry too. The credit card company were sympathetic and did in fact reduce the amount my sister had to repay, so it well might be worth your friend sending a letter to explain circumstances.

[Pommier]

It's an old folk myth in the UK that peoples debts die with them. It'd be unfair if they did!

[freddy]

[quote user="Pommier"]It's an old folk myth in the UK that peoples debts die with them. It'd be unfair if they did![/quote]

Yes and no - it is true that the debt is still owing and is claimable from the estate - however, if there is not enough in the estate to pay the debts then the debt dies with them. This contrasts with France where, I believe, the deceased debts can be 'passed on' to their family on their death.

In the UK you cannot 'inherit a debt', this is not universally true.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="freddy"][quote user="Pommier"]It's an old folk myth in the UK that peoples debts die with them. It'd be unfair if they did![/quote]

Yes and no - it is true that the debt is still owing and is claimable from the estate - however, if there is not enough in the estate to pay the debts then the debt dies with them. This contrasts with France where, I believe, the deceased debts can be 'passed on' to their family on their death.

In the UK you cannot 'inherit a debt', this is not universally true.
[/quote]

The situation in france is outlined in the link further up the thread.

http://www.pap.fr/conseils/succession/accepter-ou-refuser-la-succession/accepter-ou-refuser-la-succession-a1670

And with regard to the UK could you please expand on the universality of the truth; methinks that perhaps the "UK" might be restricted to england & wales and not the northern realm.