Financial demands to live (and stay!) in France?

[Mara]

I know that there are demands considering your financial status if you would want to live in France, but I cannot find exactly what those demands actually are for EU citizens like us.

We don't get answers from embassies or the prefecture.

We'll have a good starting capital (but we are not rich), and we'll work a bit (freelance) but not much since we still study. We'll definately NOT be depending on the French social services.

How can we find out if we'll be allowed to stay in France? And how/when do they check your financial status?

[mint]

Nobody's ever asked us about our financial status. However, that was in 2007 (house bought in 2006) so those who came before or after us might have had a different experience.

You say you are going to work; so, can I assume that you are not in receipt of a pension from your own country and might be entitled to access to the French health service via some reciprocal arrangement?

Forget about any income you might or might not get from working in France for the moment.  You need to research about health care, who will be paying and how much it will cost you personally.

Even a ball-park figure would help as it will be one of the trickiest and single most expensive requirement for living here.

[tinabee]

If you are working in France (registered freelance or under an umbrella company) then you are not required to prove your financial status. It is only required for "inactives" i.e. those who are not in receipt of a state pension and who are not working (either employed or running a business). For the healthcare requirements, if you are registered as an Autoentrepreneur to conduct your freelance activities, then no problem, your social security contributions on your declared income will give you access to the French state healthcare system. If you are working under an umbrella company (portage salariale) then you will need to earn a minimum amount within a set period of time to qualify. Have a look on the Ameli.fr website for the minimum qualifying salary to gain access to the system.

[Val_2]

When we moved here permanently in the early 90's you had to provide all details of how you were going to finance your life in France along with healthcare plans and other info.This was checked out by the Prefecture and Bureaux des Etrangers as it was mandatory to apply for a full Carte de Séjour back then until it was relaxed probably towards the end of the 90's. It was the same for driving in France, you had so many months in which to change to a french licence or take a french test to qualify over again and it was strict as they kept an eye on you untilyou were properly resident and proving you had sufficient income monthly to cover your family needs and even the fisc kept an eye on you too. Its a lot easier now and people come and go all the time without all these demands for paperwork. However, I would advocate all people who come here to live make sure they submit yearly tax returns and have sufficient health cover because there is no help otherwise should you fall on hard times.

[Chancer]

Nobody can answer your question with so little information given.

The very minimum is what country are you nationals of?

In general for EU citizens despite  legislation being in place nobody is going to demand anything of you in the way that Val2 described once happened, if you try to claim benefits then it would be a different matter, even if refused you would not be made to leave.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Val_2"]When we moved here permanently in the early 90's you had to provide all details of how you were going to finance your life in France along with healthcare plans and other info.This was checked out by the Prefecture and Bureaux des Etrangers as it was mandatory to apply for a full Carte de Séjour back then until it was relaxed probably towards the end of the 90's. It was the same for driving in France, you had so many months in which to change to a french licence or take a french test to qualify over again and it was strict as they kept an eye on you untilyou were properly resident and proving you had sufficient income monthly to cover your family needs and even the fisc kept an eye on you too. Its a lot easier now and people come and go all the time without all these demands for paperwork. However, I would advocate all people who come here to live make sure they submit yearly tax returns and have sufficient health cover because there is no help otherwise should you fall on hard times.[/quote]

This was the same for me and I very much regret that it has changed when I see the number of British immigrants who have never paid into the French system but expect to benefit from it, asking for such things as Housing benefit or even the AAH.

These would never have passed in those days.

[Val_2]

If I remember you had to proove income of at least Ff5000/month for a family of four back then and we had to furnish bank accounts and OH had to get registered immediately he came so he could trade legally and start paying his cotisations and taxes. I still have a letter from the Commissariat de Police in Brest somewhere informing us that our CdeSejours were being investigated from the personal details furnished. The mairie in those days was very involved with all newcomers and did all the paperwork that was required,bit different now I think because back then you could not go to the Prefecture to re-register your UK car or do anything, the mairie did it all.

[idun]

Truth is that when there was a Carte de Sejour, in the 80's we had to jump through hoops regularly. The Prefecture wanted pay slips and all sorts and at one point would only issue temporary cards for three months. This got silly and as we are not criminals and were treat as such,  I had a barny at our Mairie about it, then rang the Prefecture and they said that we could have a card for longer.

I was young then and took badly to it all.......... now I'm 'old', think that it was a good idea.

To the OP. As long as you don't expect to claim anything and have your health care sorted out, then I cannot see a problem.

[mint]

Norman, Val and idun, I can fully see why you might think that the "old way" was best [:D]

PLUS I can see why you might have a point!

From my relatively "new" point of view, access to the health service simply HAS to be the priority.  But then, we are elderly, and viewed from an official standpoint, likely to be a burden to the state [:-))]

However, whatever age you are, you are not immune to life's little nasty surprises so I'd still say first and foremost, ENTRY to the health system.  Then, if you could earn a bob or two, in employment or freelance or whatever else, that is all to the good.

If you, for whatever reason, cannot get into the health system, I'd say that you'd be best off wherever you are at present as this matter is NOT something to be taken lightly.

By all means, research the potential for work, etc, as so ably outlined in tinabee's post, but you'd ignore the health issue at your peril.

Anyway, WHERE are you, OP?  You have surely had some answers now to set ze leetle grey cells working overtime?[:D]

[lindal1000]

Didn't the OP say they were studying? If they are full time students I think there are different ways of accessing healthcare.

[Val_2]

In France everything is tied down toyour SS Number which is issued by the CPAM or whatever body your régime comes under (URSSAF/RSI etc). This registration number follows you everywhere especially for prescriptions issued by doctors and other medical professionals and hospitals. Full time students can access healthcare via bodies like the SMEBA (had seven years of that with my two at uni here) but....they will want a social security number so if the OP is going down the private healthcare route they need to get organised. If they register a business then they can access the system but will have to pay their dues accordingly and then still need a mutuelle for the part that is not covered. Apart from health cover really being the priority as others have said, what you have to live on or how you earn money is also vitally important because unless you have paid in for at least five years, financial help if you fall on hard times will not be forthcoming regardless of being in the EU.

[AnOther]

I'd be very interested to know how the French could kick you out of the country if you didn't have €xxx income or health care ?

If they physically put you on a plane or a ferry then you could just catch the next one and come straight back.

Even if you don't satisfy their criteria for legal residence they cannot curtail your right of free movement.

[Val_2]

If you are a EU national they can't unless you have committed a crime or are wanted for extradition elsewhere. However we have seen lately some news articles about brits being on their uppers here because of change of circumstances and have no income and therefore have had no help regarding benefits etc. That is where the problem lies, not about being kicked out but being able to survive financially without the french state propping you up unless you have contributed for some years already and are entitled to financial help and healthcare. Many are also stranded due to not being able to sell the house to enable them to start again or go back to the UK and cannot get employment.

[Lehaut]

Perhaps there should be a form of IQ test rather than a financial one. If you go to any country expecting them to sort you out due to your own stupidity, what do you expect?

[idun]

 Kick out, well why not. It states that one of the rules of 'free' movement is that no one should be a burden to another state. I have looked at the EU rules and it says that.

So IF people chose to ignore this, then surely it is dishonest and if something goes against the rules associated with such a move they should be removed.

To the OP, I am talking about people who have not enough money to live and try to get benefits in the country where they chose to move to. We have no idea about your situation, but you do need to get your medical situation sorted out, you may be young and perhaps imagine that you may never have need of the french health service, but you need to be covered never the less.

[andyh4]

quote user="AnOther"

I'd be very interested to know how the French could kick you out of the country if you didn't have €xxx income or health care ? If they physically put you on a plane or a ferry then you could just catch the next one and come straight back. Even if you don't satisfy their criteria for legal residence they cannot curtail your right of free movement.

unquote

Didn't France kick out a significant number of Roma a few months ago?

Passports can also be annotated to show an individual as an undesirable in a particular state. While Schengen might leave doors open, such an annotation is likely to ring alarm bells at any checks that do take place - for example airline checks at boarding.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Val_2"]If you are a EU national they can't unless you have committed a crime or are wanted for extradition elsewhere. However we have seen lately some news articles about brits being on their uppers here because of change of circumstances and have no income and therefore have had no help regarding benefits etc. That is where the problem lies, not about being kicked out but being able to survive financially without the french state propping you up unless you have contributed for some years already and are entitled to financial help and healthcare. Many are also stranded due to not being able to sell the house to enable them to start again or go back to the UK and cannot get employment.[/quote]

Hi,

   Here is a link to the site which explains right of residence for various categories of" inactif" persons in France .    Note the section on " sejour durant les 5 premières années"  The "Aspa" benefit for pensioners in France is 9504€  single and 14755€ couple.

In practice , it seems that the rules would only come into effect if you asked for a social benefit.   It doesn't seem to be widely applied in France , but Belgium has expelled  several  thousand people under these rules in the last few years

vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F12017.xhtml

[mint]

[quote user="Lehaut"]Perhaps there should be a form of IQ test rather than a financial one. If you go to any country expecting them to sort you out due to your own stupidity, what do you expect?[/quote]

Lehaut, I do think that is a bit harsh.

Not everybody falling into difficulty is stupid.  The unexpected can happen to anyone.

OTOH, I agree that you do need to look at all possible scenarios.  Even so, there are some things that you simply cannot foresee.