Guests who won't go out !!

[Miki]

Thanks Ron,

Yes that is the way it is really. We do of course allow for many instances where something might mean the guest(s)need to stay in for a while. We are not Blackpool landladies as was mentioned before, where guests are thrown out after breakfast and banned from the house for the day (note, as I said, keys are given for the front door and bedroom door to allow them quite a lot of freedom whilst staying with us).

Guests staying on will often say they are dropping bcak just after lunch to get ready to go out to dinner a distance away or to get ready for a marriage etc.

Guests actually are asked politely to vacate their rooms by 11h00 during their stay and by 10h30 on their last day. This often gets exceeded but it is normally no bother, as we can get on with other things in the meantime.

Like you Ron, I remember well going on B&B hols to, among other places, Hastings and Dad having to ask nicely if we could come back to watch the county cricket from their back garden. If no cricket, we would have to stay out all day, rain, snow or sunshine !! Things are a little different these days, as far as we are concerned and I suspect also with the other CdH owners on here.

[Debra]

Well those that are with GdF have to act in that way.

British B&B's here we know, do more than they should do but that is not our problem. It was ruled like that, so as to not affect local restos and hotels which do not like the CdH's too much anyway as they naturally fear loss of trade, so regulations were put in place so CdH's do not act like hotels or hotel/restos.

Ah, now it makes sense.

Methinks either Richard is just winding you up - or he doesn't know this either?

Gay - if we can work the dates right, once a year hubby and I get a holiday without our kids (who came on our honeymoon with us!), and its a real novelty to be able to stay in bed!  However, now I know the rules I'll know where and where not to stay!

We are not Blackpool landladies as was mentioned before, where guests are thrown out after breakfast and banned from the house for the day

Definitely not Blackpool then!  But as hubby is from there, its the last place he would want to go (must ask him about these famous landladies though!)

I repeat, GdF state in their guide books, that you are not booking in to an hotel but in to someones home and so please treat the owners house as you would your own home

Maybe this bit in the guide needs to be changed?

[Oldie]

I originally come from London and if anyone called me a Clever Clogs I would take offence. I don't see where the fact it is my first post comes into it. Perhaps it's your nature, but I learnt at an early stage to be polite. Don't bother to reply to this as I shall not answer.

[Missy]

[quote]I will learn absolutely knack all from you Richard, you do not have one iota of experience in the tourist industry and are looking at it from a point that simply says, I want what I want, no matter ho...[/quote]

Richard, What is your line of work?

Because from reading your postings it seems that you really don't know the hardship of this business which we go through us the landlords/ladies of such establishments and that you are in mind of being an akward customer when you take your hols.

I agree 200% with Mikki! Just that Mikki has a very eloquent and endearing way of saying things.

This B&B and gite business is very rewarding when all your guests behave 'normally'(even has some hilarious moments-did laugh myself silly after the events-as I retold higher up in this thread) but the minute we encounter someone who really thinks he/she is the bizz and thinks he/she owns the world therefore WE MUST be at their beck and call, it really does lose ALL of its appeal.

MOST if not 95% of ALL B&B and gite business I know and have come accross (as and when I can take my own holidays) are owned and managed by Mr and Mrs Together who have plunged in it ALL their life savings and are on their own with NO outside help, working their back bone to a grind, for ever thinking ahead ways of making the guest welcome and more to the point to making him come back, in order to make ends meet.

In my case when I was doing B&B on my farm, I HAD NO CHOICE in order to supplement my husband's earnings from a terrible doldrum in farming, or we were on the bread line...

It is not a French problem only. I live in UK and I have the same problem with dwindling market share and people drifting overseas to cheap hols, guaranteed sunshine and many adrenalin filled activities for junkies.

We can not compete with that ever and we recognise that, so please give us a pat on the back as we are trying our very best effort to accommodate you lot on hols.

Please be grateful you had a kind samaritan on your road to put you up for the night and don't abuse the hospitality given which is the least politeness expected from any decent people.

We could have told you to ****** off!...

[Miki]

[quote]I originally come from London and if anyone called me a Clever Clogs I would take offence. I don't see where the fact it is my first post comes into it. Perhaps it's your nature, but I learnt at an ea...[/quote]

I will bother though, just to say that I am a West London born and bred lad and saying "clever clogs" to anyone was often a form of gentle mocking and laughter at the person (usually a mate)who we thought was wrong about something. I can't believe you think it as even impolite but there you go !

A more serious impoliteness had a pretty obvious nature to it and far too rude to write on here !.

[Richardbk]

what bizzare poster you are Miki - No I don't run a B&B or gite or a hotel, but we use them and so like millions of others I am fully entitled to an opinion. In addition having lived in France for quite a number of years I am not blind to the state of the economy and the various market sectors - there are newspapers and TV in the Tarn too you know

Just because a B&B in france is runs like it is today does not mean that this is how it should be done in the future. Customers want flexibility and freedom ; they do not want to be told what and when they can or can not do someting. For example I have seen CdH entry and exits that do not impact on the host living spaces. Not easy for old properties, but if people are converting they should think about it. If guests are late/early for breakfast leave it ready made up on a tray. Hotels are moving to adding value in other ways - beyond the room itself , perhaps the future of the B&B is to move more towards hotel rooms of old. There are lots of ways of improving - it just needs a little lateral thinking and experimentation - and just because the state or the local CdH/tourist office does not agree, is this a reason not to do it. A successful business is one that is always looking for market opportunity and is prepared to change and adapt.

just a couple of references on the decline in tourism in france

http://www.lexpansion.com/art/2529.77597.0.html

http://www.francereview.com/articles/general/free-fall.php

If you trawl the web I expect you will find many others .. Of course no doubt you will all tell me that the 2005 figures when released will show that everying is now better then ever.

regs

 

Richard

[Miki]

Of course you are entitled to an opinion and some of us are equally fully entitled to put you straight and give you the "real" facts of BED AND BREAKFAST that I am positive you are not au fait with. I also find it even more bizarre that you persist in thinking you know this trade better than some of us, who are at the very heart of the commerce itself.

We nearly all drive cars, it doesn't mean many know how the things work though !

In your links :

Firstly in one link there is interview with a certain person who is dealing with UK clients and to be honest he has a large self interest in trying to get clients here, as that is his business, no clients arriving, no business for them (advertising holiday properties etc and I for one, have no time for the way it is operated) I am here in France, with a large percentage being from the French market, as all serious CdH's should be doing if they wish to get as much of the B&B market in their area as they possibly can.

The other one is not new and means the same the world over, all showing blips in their tourism in one way or another. French people are not neccessary travelling abroad by the way, many are facing difficult times at the moment and are doing nothing too expensive this year as far as holidays are conncerned. Every year there is another reason put forward as to why so and so regions did not do too well, I know of a resto that says every year it has done less than the previous, at this rate his large 12 bedroomed house and his house in Grasse will have to go (yeh right, I am afraid you have to read betwen the lines in many cases !). You see I have been reading all this for many years and it has barely changed in its reporting in all that time.

Owners are not stupid for the greater part. We know what our guests want and we work hard to supply it, you on the other hand are looking for us B&B's to change our make up to suit soem utopian desire you have, well sorry, the hotels and camp sites etc are never going to budge on how they view us as their competition. So how we operate is for the moment, set in stone, so all your whingeing and demand for changes just won't happen unless the law changes and to be honest and I will repeat it once more, we are full, as I sure others are, how much fuller can you get ? If things change and we are finding that we are not as full as before, then we will all no doubt look as to why and, do our very best to adapt to how we operate to regain lost trade but all the time, we must remember as to what we can, or cannot do

We will, no doubt, have troughs and highs in our business still to come, some years ago for instance, we had to trade with the £1 at around and just under 7 francs and suffered a litle because of this large drop in the £'s value (not much though. We got by with clever marketing and giving deals to tempt people to holiday with us. We have bobbed and weaved to keep our family "fortunes" viable and have come out on the other side financially a lot better off than when we arrived.

We shall attempt to deal with each and every problem as it arises, just as we have done in years gone by. What we won't do though, is listen to is someone whose only interest is in what he can get from a B&B and who truly has no knowledge whatsoever in the everyday workings that go on, not only in "front of house" but the 90% of work that goes on behind "closed" doors.

"...For example I have seen CdH entry and exits that do not impact on the host living spaces. Not easy for old properties, but if people are converting they should think about it"

Got that and have had it like that from day one, it is of course not possible for many and to be honest if the owners and guests don't mind it that way, then nothing wrong with it like that.

What timing would you put on this put idea of leaving breakfast on a tray, 10h30...11h00...12h00 believe me, we do leave it out for a while but you would soon realise that in this business you have to get on and do your work and leaving stuff out will eventually mean other guests copying, then it gets later and later as the know it will be left out for them anyway. Then they will demand fresh coffee or tea to go with it etc and then you are having more unfair demands put upon you.

We have all evolved out trade over the years, we listen to what people want and go with most of it but as was stated, we have to set the rules or it would not take long to be taken for no more than underpaid servants and that is not what a B&B should be all about.

No one has said we will run it just as it is today, it will evolve but I repeat, for a very large part, our hands are tied in what we can provide, what we can do is ensure our guets are comfortable, treated well but above all, ensure mutual repsect is given by both parties within the framework of BED AND BREAKFAST.

Give and take, look after the clients, even the bad ones but NEVER EVER be taken for a mug and be treated like dirt, there are far too many good guests to arrive and no need to take the odd stroppy sods at all.

Big words :

".....Hotels are moving to adding value in other ways - beyond the room itself , perhaps the future of the B&B is to move more towards hotel rooms of old. There are lots of ways of improving - it just needs a little lateral thinking and experimentation - and just because the state or the local CdH/tourist office does not agree, is this a reason not to do it. A successful business is one that is always looking for market opportunity and is prepared to change and adapt"

But unwise ones, as I am afraid you are not privy to how we must work our businesses within the regulations laid down. We are NOT hotels and are not allowed to act like one, as things get tough in the tourist trade, you can bet your last euro that the hotels will once again insist that B&B's not be allowed to do this or that and certainly, not to approach on their way of doing business.

I have tried to explain in a few posts now but, if you insist on us trying it this way or that way, then it becaause you do not want to listen to those "on the ground" but to simply give your opinion on changes that will not for the greater part be allowed as things stand in France at the moment.

As for this corker:

"...Of course no doubt you will all tell me that the 2005 figures when released will show that everying is now better then ever"

It is just a silly statement at something no one has even mentioned, please do read what has been actually said and stop diversifying in to unreal territory to suit an argument that no one has even brought up. We are all I'm sure quite awaren as previously stated, that some seasons may well not follow the pattern of previous years, so please don't read in to this thread, something that simply just does not exist.

[Missy]

[quote]what bizzare poster you are Miki - No I don't run a B&B or gite or a hotel, but we use them and so like millions of others I am fully entitled to an opinion. In addition having lived in France for...[/quote]

Sorry to butt in ....

Richard

Mikki IS NOT a bizarre poster, he just tells it as it is.

Unless you have a smidgeon of what this business is about from the other side and behind the door from where you are standing as a customer, you can not say to us the providers of this service that you are about to buy that there are other ways of doing things. We have tried everything in the book, front to back page within the sometime severe constraints we are given.

Yes the customer is King! but sometime the King is too demanding for his own good and has no manners nor politeness to admit that he is overstepping the mark.

[sue702]

Welcome to Living France Oldie, I hope this exchange of words doesn't put you off from getting involved!

I really think some of the posters here should count to 10 (or even more) before they vent their spleens... and maybe sticking to the topic and prejudging others would help. But who am I just another Newbie...

Sue

[Richardbk]

[quote]Of course you are entitled to an opinion and some of us are equally fully entitled to put you straight and give you the "real" facts of BED AND BREAKFAST that I am positive you are not au fait with. I...[/quote]

Of course you are entitled to an opinion and some of us are equally fully entitled to put you straight and give you the "real" facts of BED AND BREAKFAST that I am positive you are not au fait with. I also find it even more bizarre that you persist in thinking you know this trade better than some of us, who are at the very heart of the commerce itself.

We nearly all drive cars, it doesn't mean many know how the things work though !

I have already said that I do know anything about the process of running a B&B, As with any business what is important is the external service or product. I am not telling you how to run your business , but simply remarking that times are changing and the customer is looking for more.


In your links :

Firstly in one link there is interview with a certain person who is dealing with UK clients and to be honest he has a large self interest in trying to get clients here, as that is his business, no clients arriving, no business for them (advertising holiday properties etc and I for one, have no time for the way it is operated) I am here in France, with a large percentage being from the French market, as all serious CdH's should be doing if they wish to get as much of the B&B market in their area as they possibly can.

The other one is not new and means the same the world over, all showing blips in their tourism in one way or another. French people are not neccessary travelling abroad by the way, many are facing difficult times at the moment and are doing nothing too expensive this year as far as holidays are conncerned. Every year there is another reason put forward as to why so and so regions did not do too well, I know of a resto that says every year it has done less than the previous, at this rate his large 12 bedroomed house and his house in Grasse will have to go (yeh right, I am afraid you have to read betwen the lines in many cases !). You see I have been reading all this for many years and it has barely changed in its reporting in all that time.

Feel free to dismiss and counter argue. Just because you work in the business does nto mean that everybody else has the same view as you. There are plenty of other examples, the 2004 figures are national statistics, I guess similar figures will come out at the end of 2005.

Owners are not stupid for the greater part. Did I say so ?

We know what our guests want ? In my experience most B&B rely on historic satisfaction surveys, rather than looking to market reserach to find want is needed for the future. This is tactical operation rather than strategic - but don't worry  - this is a standard feature of the French service industry.

and we work hard to supply it, you on the other hand are looking for us B&B's to change our make up to suit soem utopian desire you have, well sorry, the hotels and camp sites etc are never going to budge on how they view us as their competition. So how we operate is for the moment, set in stone, so all your whingeing and demand for changes just won't happen unless the law changes and to be honest and I will repeat it once more, we are full, as I sure others are, how much fuller can you get ? If things change and we are finding that we are not as full as before, then we will all no doubt look as to why and, do our very best to adapt to how we operate to regain lost trade b

[sue702]

Welcome to Living France Forum Oldie, I hope this exchange of words won't put you off getting involved.

I really think some of the posters here should count to 10 (or even more) before they vent their spleens. But who am I? Just another Newbie.

Sue

[Debra]

This is getting a bit heated but I think its partly a misunderstanding.  Richard, I think you are missing half of the point - that there are rules that Miki and his colleagues have to follow, set down so that their business does not encroach on that of the hotels.  It sounds like a Chambre D'Hotes business has to be a distinct entity - providing a different service to a hotel and therefore not directly competing.

The other main point is, that whatever the rules are, within those rules Miki is entitled to operate how he wants to - to fit in with his life: that is his  prerogative.  If he didn't, he and his family would have no life and end up giving up on this type of business anyway.  As it is, his place is full all the time and therefore he is as successful as he can be, while operating on his own terms, so your argument is surely irrelevant?

Customers can listen all they like to the providers, but if at the end of the day the product is not good enough then they will go else where. It seems that in this sub forum there is a lot of patting on the back but perhaps not enough input from the client side.

Exactly - I was speaking as a customer and I now know that if hubby and I want a mucky week away, where noone is bothered if we stay in bed all day if we feel like it, then we shouldn't go to a Chambre D'Hotes (or at least Miki's place!) - but I don't think Miki is that bothered about that, since he is full anyway: of people who do need the kind of service he supplies.

 

[Alan]

Just because a B&B in france is runs like it is today does not mean that this is how it should be done in the future. Customers want flexibility and freedom ; they do not want to be told what and when they can or can not do something.

 

I could not agree more but organisations like GDF and clévacances also have to change their views as well ,as most of us are only following the rules that are set down , although at times it can be a hair pulling experience.

 

If you want your guests to leave the rooms each day as long as its made clear to them what rules you have and what you expect when the booking is made then I cant see the problem, everybody then knows the ground rules

 

For us its quite common that we have people stay in the whole day, not in their rooms but by the pool. July and August most of our business is families and as we have a pool then some families do not want to move from the pool. We have just had one family stay for 8 days and I think have only left the grounds once to do some sight seeing and to go out for dinner in the evening, on the nights that they were not eating in. We serve breakfast between 7.30 and 9.30, i could not start to offer trays for breakfast, and once this is over I then clean the rooms, if the guests are in I ask if I can come in to clean and refresh and so far have not had a problem, one day the family requested that the rooms did not need any attention so I just empty the rubbish and checked the loo rolls said if they needed any more tea and coffee to ask. All guests have a key and if I have to leave the house then I request that the  house is locked if they decide to go out while I am not there

 

I know we are not hotels but I do feel that more and more guests do expect the same standards as hotels,for us this year we have had more problems with table d hotes , as all English guest don’t expect or wish to eat with us and all French have insisted that we do eat with them. So I am sure GDF would not like it but I now ask all guests booking for dinner if they wish to eat with us or by themselves. You are never going to please all of the people all of the time but that does not mean that we don’t try

[Miki]

Thanks to all of you other Chambre d'hôte owners (and Debra who is not an owner...yet !) who have read and understood what I have been saying about how it really is and, indeed how it has to be with running a B&B in France.

As far as you are concered Richard, you are sadly taking it well in to La La land and are making new suggestions as to what we should do and what we ought to do in future, when our hands are well and truly tied. As for France and it having to change, well how stupid is it to argue about something that may or may not happen many years in the future. You have taken in to the realms of what if this and, what if that, there can be no certain decison based on that kind of discussion, especially when it comes down to FRANCE !

Where GdF, or any other organsiation are concerned, they cannot simply change things without it all being discussed at a far higher level.

You really need to understand the essence of how CdH's are run and even the history behind how it all started, to see that they are suffered by the hotels and campsites etc, all by way of a special deal some years ago. It is unfortunatley, your complete lack of undertanding of how CdH's work, that is causing all this to be blown in to other areas of which hotels are meant to be for, certainly not B&B's.

If all this was to be attemped to be changed, it would bring the power of the hoteliers and other tourist related industries in to the breech and I can promise you, if all the gites and B&B's in France were forced to take the C de Com route and pay full cotisations, then a good 50% plus, probably a lot more in fact at a rough guess would be forced to pack it in ! It honestly is that scenario.

I have to say that during all this a saying that comes to mind is one that a certain chap who is well known for his exceptional business skills, mentioned once, it goes like this

"If you had a thousand smart arses in one room they would all be great at the theory but when it comes to the actual practice that only certain knowledgeable experiences can bring, then you will find that not one of those people would have the slightest idea how to proceed in reality"

One can quote all day long about this and that and unless you are at the hub of things it is just that, you simply do not know; one, the facts and two how it all actually works but still want to offer words of wisdom that simply cannot be used due to one thing or another.

Full stop, now how about you letting us loose on your what you do for a living and let us pick over it? We may not know what you do but by golly we can sure offer inexperienced advice on it and find quotes from wherever we can, to back up our thoughts, however wrong they are in the first place.

[Miki]

[quote]This is getting a bit heated but I think its partly a misunderstanding. Richard, I think you are missing half of the point - that there are rules that Miki and his colleagues have to follow, set down...[/quote]

Very well put Debra and seriously, thanks for seeing through all the words and deciphering it so well.

[Miki]

[quote]Welcome to Living France Oldie, I hope this exchange of words doesn't put you off from getting involved!I really think some of the posters here should count to 10 (or even more) before they vent their...[/quote]

Please, please, please, this is something that us B&B'ers see as a serious subject. If all you want to post, is to pick up on a breach of decorum (I don't see it as that bad to be honest)and if you feel you must make such comments, then why not start a thread about it ?

[Will]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the original concept of chambres d'hôte was that it was something that was done in a private house, with guests who were prepared to fit into the host family's lifestyle. That included letting the owners get on with their farming lifestyle - as they were predominantly farmers in the early days of GdF (as many still are). OK, we are not farmers, but we both have other jobs besides looking after people staying with us. Agreed, for some establishments, like Miki's, things have moved on so that the chambres d'hôte is the prime income stream rather than something secondary, so perhaps you could argue for different standards to apply. I think not, the basic principles behind C de H are still valid and they are definitely something different from a hotel. That, for most customers, is the attraction. People who stay at a C de H are not usually those who aspire to stay at a hotel but want the same service on the cheap. Most of the small hotels near us provide a rather different service, and are cheaper than many Cs de Hs anyway.

Getting back to the original question I recently arranged to give guests a lift to the nearest restaurant offering the customary 9€50 four-course lunch, and pick them up an hour and a half later. That way I got to see to the room, change the towels, top up the tea bags etc without too much hassle (other than about 12km worth of diesel) and they were perfectly happy - they got their lunch without having to get wet. They are about the only ones we have had who have had nothing else to do during the day, and thus very definitely in the minority. Had I told them I had to see to the room there would have been no problem, as there are two separate guest seating areas, it's just better to have the B&B wing vacant when servicing the rooms.

[le bouffon]

The point must be if miki does not like it or anyone else who is providing the same kind of service then they do not have to put up with it they can go and do something else and spare the rest of the world the dribble about the trails and tribulations of a B&B and I for one would of not even started in the B&B game with a little thought it would of been so easy to see that miki`s situation would occur.

[Lori]

I have never stayed in a B&B.  I'm sure I will one day, but at least I understand the concept now.  Alan - I like your website.  Your rooms look really nice.  Don't know Miki's website, but would imagine he runs a nice place too - always booked, sounds good.

We have run a gite (part of our family home, but well separated) for the last couple of years.  I have to agree pleasing all the people all the time is an intense challenge.  Most of us have to completely change our lifestyles in order to run this type of business.  As has been said, if you don't like it, you don't do it.  Actually having people IN my own home (such as B&B) would be something I couldn't do.  I have always had the utmost respect for people who can, especially after having run the gite for the last two years. 

But, I do believe that a certain amount of respect must be given to the property owner.  Know and follow the rules.  If you don't like them, don't book there.  Pretty simple really. 

I wouldn't begin to try to tell someone else how to run his/her business - unless he/she asked.

[Quillan]

[quote]One of the biggest problems in france is the service culture, not helped at all by the chambre d'hote owners (french, and now it seems brits). You seem to forget who the customer is - you lot sound l...[/quote]

Ouch.

Actually many of us don't mind our guests 'hanging around' but they have to appreciate that to maintain the high standards that they like and expect we have to clean their rooms. Sure they don't have to leave the place completely just vacate the room and wander round the pool or garden or whatever. If you look at some of the posts here you will see that we are more flexable and service orientated. As for UK landladies I can assure you that there is still many a B&B out there that has breakfast at 8:30 and by 9:30 it's finished, out the house by 10:00 and don't come back till 17:30. I know as I have stayed in such establichments.

[Richardbk]

Full stop, now how about you letting us loose on your what you do for a living and let us pick over it? We may not know what you do but by golly we can sure offer inexperienced advice on it and find quotes from wherever we can, to back up our thoughts, however wrong they are in the first place.

R&D to improve air traffic control and aircraft systems.

[Tresco]

 

Full stop, now how about you letting us loose on your what you do for a living and let us pick over it? We may not know what you do but by golly we can sure offer inexperienced advice on it and find quotes from wherever we can, to back up our thoughts, however wrong they are in the first place.

R&D to improve air traffic control and aircraft systems.

That sounds like a stressful job. You want to make sure you have plenty of short breaks, you know.

 

[Miki]

[quote]Full stop, now how about you letting us loose on your what you do for a living and let us pick over it? We may not know what you do but by golly we can sure offer inexperienced advice on it and find q...[/quote]

Well for a start it is about time something was done about. Too many accidents, too much emphasis put on auto pilots and not enough on human errors. Time to make planes fully automatic and to offer us pasengers far better aircraft than some of the downright tedious systems one sees now days. As for air traffic control, well far too many families are stuck at airports due to too many people trying to improve it all but getting nowhere, it is a disgrace that we are not much better off than we were a few years ago.

It is time to put clients first and not serve up rubbish traffic control and abysmal aircraft systems and as for food, we wont go there as it is not in your domain, whatever R&D means i guess it is research and development but arther facetious to abbreviate what many would not actually have a clue what it stood for, all "rather anorakial" to be honest.

Don't suppose my advice will be listened to so "snap" there then !

[Richardbk]

Judging by the rants on here seems like tourism is more stressful than what I do

I guess somebody has to produce products to sell so that people have money to spend on tourism.

As for ATM  (Air Traffic Management : what a great anorak abbreviation) it is evolving - As well as the technology we are  changing the rules and the frameworks at national, European and global level - if only B&Bs could do the same 

regs

Richard

 

 

[Miki]

[quote]Correct me if I am wrong, but the original concept of chambres d'hôte was that it was something that was done in a private house, with guests who were prepared to fit into the host family's lifestyle....[/quote]

Will,

Quite correct. That is how it was and nothing too much has changed in the way it is still seen overall by the authorities. It cannot be seen as being too "professional" we do, like so many others, do of course, do things that strictly to the letter of the law are not allowed but.....

Did you know that GdF did not want anyone to even go with B&B France (a "minor" rival) as their grading was not the same as GdF's and was often to be seen as contradictory and the member would also be seen as a little too dynamic, to be just a simple B&B !!

Quite right as well regarding some of the old one star hotels. Stay in bed until 09h30 and the likelihood was that the breakfasts had long been put back in the kitchen (and more often than not, prepared again the next days for the next guests !)They were cheap for a reason, poor matresses, beds and bedlinen plus threadbare carpets and dreadfully worn decor ! one shared bathroom per floor, lack of funds for improvemnets and so it was no surprise that slowly 2 and 3 epis CdH's took a lot of their business but people are warned in the guide books that they must not expect hotel (well certainly not 1 star and of course not other higher standard hotel things like porters, bars, staff to cater for your every whim, meals at all times of the day, all this and more were things that simply were (are) not allowed in a chambre d'hôte.