Miki Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Here's one to think about!A party of 8 British Guests (4 adults 4 kids) the other day said they were tired on their night of arrival, went out to eat (didn't order evening meals here) and came back in pretty late, no problem there. They came down to breakfast in dribs and drabs from 08.45, ordering coffee, teas and hot chocolate as they arrived. First person down was still asking for coffee 75 minutes after first coming down for breakfasts, still no problem there, pretty unusual but hey, they are paying guests, unthoughtful ones but still guests.The other guests went out by the normal time 10h30-11h00 but this lots kids went back to bed ! followed by the parents, bottom line was that at 12h30 all were back in their rooms and some soundly asleeep.The important words to remember here are "Bed and Breakfast" and in a private home. Gîtes de France state that guests must always remember that you are in a private house NOT in an hotel and respect it as such. In our rooms there is a plasticated information sheet that quite categorically says that guest must please vacate their rooms by 11h00 or by 10h30 on day of departure (thereby of course allowing enough time for cleaning etc before new guests arrival and even time to sit down !)We needed to go out to a little lunch with a friend who was over and going back that day from Dinard airport. It left us in a very rare situation where we simply had to let them stay in but told them they were liable for ensuring the house was locked should they go out.It also meant we could not wash the floor (tiled) due to the problem if one of them were to slip on the wet floor, all in all this incident showed us once again us why guests simply have to leave the house to allow us to do all the work required and indeed have lunch (in the house or out) and even get a rest !!We do of course have guests who occasionally have felt poorly and have stayed in bed to recover but not 8 people !So how would you have dealt with it cause I am pretty cheesed off that people can be so selfish but there you go ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP1 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Hi Miki,Its always the brits isn't it." So how would you have dealt with it "Using a hoover outside their room in the coridor and occasionaly letting the head bang against the door. Usualy drops the hint. when they come out say sorry if you disturbed them but you have to get the work done quickly as you need to go out in the next ten mins.regards.JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Yep it's always the brits. Our other guests get up have their breakfast and out they go. We clean our rooms every day, cuts down on cleaning time when they leave as the rooms are not so dirty. We have to empty the bins, restock tea, coffee, toilet rolls etc and make the bed (only the brits don't bother making their beds). Today we have a couple of newly weds, down for breakfast at 11:00 then back to bed and have been bonking away ever since (could Arnold or Miki come up with a charging method for this as well). Our attitude is they don't get their room serviced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 It reminds me of a similar incident when I first started doing B&B. (and was a very green young newly married lass !) This couple arrived asking for a room for 2 nights. OK I have a room available... but thought it a strange request as the man was looking not more than 18 (much too soft downy stubble) and the lady was definitely passed the age for a free bus pass!!... Other than that they were polite, well spoken and well dressed and certainly a smart BMW car in the carpark...So I took them up to the family room. It is 2 rooms + 1 bathroom with own access by a unique staircase, and very quiet as it away from the main part of the house. Almost an annexe to the house. They can sort themselves out. I told them the price per night and that breakfast is from 8 to 10 in the dining room and if they need to come back late this evening here is the key to that end of the house and their room. Did see the young man struggling with a large suitcase and a cool box Next morning 8am no one shows up for breakie, 9 still no one, 9.45 young man (serious bags under his eyes :ermm comes down to ask for a tray of tea, coffee, toast and jam to take to the bedroom as the lady was not well.... I obliged as they still had not paid a penny and proposed the service of my GP if needed. Re-assured it won't be necessary I left the pair alone and carried on my daily chores but avoiding that end of the house in consideration for the 'malade'.. By the evening the smart BMW had not moved an inch from the carpark... but there are plenty walks around here and the main town is only 3 miles with a nice foot path to it, that I did not worry...Next morning 8am again no one shows up for breakie, 9 still no one, 9.45 young man (more serious bags under his eyes :ermm comes down to ask for an other tray of tea, etc... to take to the bedroom as the lady was still not well and could they please stay one more night... Well I had to accept as I still had no money from them !! The day went by and a repeat of the previous.. 3rd morning and at about 9.30 both appeared. Lady looking a million dollars and no trace of having been unwell AT ALL Both had a very light breakfast and when produced with the bill, paid with no problems in cash! The BMW leaves the carpark and I quickly go to the bedroom to clean !!!They had forgotten the cool box... which had 6 empty bottles of champers!! and remnants of smoked salmon picnics strawberries, chocolate cake etc... Bedding all over the place in the larger of the 2 rooms as well as the pillows and duvets from the smaller room Balloons and streamers floating everywhere about the bathroom and a big lipstick heart on the mirrorOn the dressing table an enveloppe addressed to : 'The lovely kind landlady!!xx' containing just a lovely card, no words or signature and as much money as the bill had cost them!! When I looked down to the wastepaper basket ... enough condoms for an entire olympic team! My most memorable souvenir of my long list of guests which have been in that suite of rooms. Certainly that day I lost my 'green young newly married lass' status!!!Sadly for any one wanting to come to these rooms : I have retired from the B&B business!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Missyesbut: Absolutely hilarious (maybe not).. This is our last year renting our gite out (lower portion of our family home) after a very unpleasant experience, but not like your story.... We do still have repeat customers already booked for 2006, but won't take anyone new. I have to say that I am most grateful to stone structures. We really don't hear much of anything coming from down there (so to speak). I have an 11 year old child, that is the last thing I need to keep us up at night.Part of the same mentioned "bad experience" we had were customers here for two weeks who refused the Saturday cleaning (which I pride myself in doing), change linens, clean kitchen, bathroom, vacuum, mop, etc.. That was part of a huge bunch of signals. From that moment forward the Saturday cleaning is obligatoire and is noted in the contract. After two weeks it took me 9 hours to clean the place and try to repair the damages. So, Miki - I would remind all folks at booking that breakfast is served between "these hours" and cleaning is obligatoire during "these hours," requiring the room to be vacated for the cleaning. Normal people will respect and appreciate that. You probably already do this. There are always those "special" people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Miki!! You should have phoned!I would have had them out in no time.We went to the cafe across the road last night and a drunk was being very rude to the landlords Mum. Quite an elderly lady who was being polite.....I soon had him outNo messing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 You'll do for me Alexis Never had a bouncer before for at a B&B but maybe that is how the future will be !Funny really cause the Mother said, "oh it is not a problem, we will ensure all is locked if we go out, nothing will be missing, my daughter and her husband are police officers" ! Really ! the only ones I ever met were bent or dozy so and so's (although I am told there are some good straight ones, just never been fortunate enough to meet very many I guess!)So I was not impressed by that (did it show ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I'd knock on the door and ask if they need the services of the doctor and TELL them cleaning of these rooms will commence at X hours. If they still refuse to budge I would make it plain that you expected them to eat in that night ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Really ! the only ones I ever met were bent or dozy so and so's (although I am told there are some good straight ones, just never been fortunate enough to meet very many I guess!)mmm - after being married to one for a long time, who was employed in both the North and South of England, I can concur. I think I did actually meet one or two of the latter type, but my memory, probably overwhelmed by the majority, fails me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardbk Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 One of the biggest problems in france is the service culture, not helped at all by the chambre d'hote owners (french, and now it seems brits). You seem to forget who the customer is - you lot sound like the land ladies of the 1950s from costa del brighton , bournemouth etc. Live and let live. if you want the business learn to be flexible - if not make sure you advertise that you are a rigid fixed rule establishment. Times have changed - OK guests may miss their breakfast but they do not expect to be turfed out of their room for cleaning. Afterall why get all this hassle when for a few euros more you could stay in hotel - It seems you guys have fallen in to the French service ethic of 'I'll decide what is best for the client'. You have a lot to learn if you want to keep your business going in the 21st century. regsRichard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think you are entirely wrong Richard, if you expect hotel facilities you have to pay for an hotel (who also may not be thrilled to have the room occupied 24/7). Otherwise its called bed and breakfast - not bed, breakfast AND lunch, you get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I've stayed in B&B's and hotels and in my experience, in both, if you stay in your room all day (which is acceptable) you have to accept that either your room will be cleaned around you - or it isn't at all and you get no clean, dry towels and have to live with a full bin and no refreshed tea/coffee facilities. But isn't a Chambre D'Hotes in France different to the B&B or hotel concept? There seems to be a lot of emphasis on the fact that this type of accomodation is based around staying in someone's family home. Now, does that mean the guest has to vacate the premises for the day to give that family some space, or that they are treated as part of the family? If the latter, do family members have to vacate the premises for the day?Not trying to be mischevious and spark a debate, just curious about the concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote]One of the biggest problems in france is the service culture, not helped at all by the chambre d'hote owners (french, and now it seems brits). You seem to forget who the customer is - you lot sound l...[/quote]Sorry but I have to concur 100%with Gay (By the way Gay, legally with GdF, we are not even allowed to do lunches) As I said the words of the business have the clue within...BED AND BREAKFAST (get it ? no cream afternoon teas, no massage service, just good old fashioned B&B, we are not the Carlton or the Ritz with staff coming out of our jacksy's, just two people grafting like mad for months and months at a time)We run a good service and we never forget the guest is what it is all about. We never, ever call guests "Punters" we know where our bread is buttered and treat them as if we want everyone of them back again.If you think that a small max 5 (6) room C. d'Hôte can afford to be hanging around for guests to leave, then you do not have an inkling about how it must all work. When will the cleaning get done for instance? Like Chris, we like to clean everyday, it keeps the work down for the eventual day of departure and ensures any problems are caught early before they get worse, leaky toilet, anything broken etc.I repeat, GdF state in their guide books, that you are not booking in to an hotel but in to someones home and so please treat the owners house as you would your own home. Would you stay at someones house and just lounge about like you own it, come down in dribs and drabs and demand numerous cups of tea and coffee from 08h30 until after 10h30 then go back to bed? Yeh sure, you would not do so in any friends houses we know, cause that is not how one treats friends. The choice if one wants to do that is to quite simply to go and stay in an hotel and as has been stated, try that in some hotels and you will gets short shrift from them as well.I will learn absolutely knack all from you Richard, you do not have one iota of experience in the tourist industry and are looking at it from a point that simply says, I want what I want, no matter how rude I am, or how demanding I am, well I've got news for you, we treat our guests great but muck us about and treat us shabbily and not in the way we would treat other CdH folks and we couldn't give two monkeys if you never came within 50 miles of us ever again, simple. Too many lovely guests to have people like you who want to just treat us hard working patrons like dirt to bother with your likes, simple. Think we won't make it. Sorry too long in the game and know you are many miles out in your blinkered thinking.We never forget who the customer is, never ever, but to re-iterate, we B&B folk have to have a life, we need to get out, we cannot take chances all the time by leaving guests in our home whilst we get some quality time away from the house, without those times getting away, we could not possibly get through long and ardous seasons, so ardous we need to close from Nov-March. Think I am joking ? then ask other busy B&B's and see if they don't need plenty of closure time to recharge their batteries plus do some maintenance in preperation for it all to start over again in March. Would you leave strangers in your house and go out ? Or would you say politely, sorry but we are going out now and would like to lock up ? Book a gite if you wnat to do what you want, when you want.What you seem to have also overlooked is the fact that in their reservation confirmation all is explained, in the room it is all explained, not being rude just laying down just a couple of neccessary regulations. Imagine the last day, no one gets up and leaves and we have guests who want to come in a bit early due to a marriage or celebration of some kind. The guests on departure day leave at 12h00 and the new guests want to be in at 13h00, so OK clever clogs, explain to me in easy terms how you keep both parties happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote]I've stayed in B&B's and hotels and in my experience, in both, if you stay in your room all day (which is acceptable) you have to accept that either your room will be cleaned around you - or it is...[/quote]But if you stay in your room all day, then what are the owners meant to do ? They are now prisoners in their own home. Many of us have appointments still to make, perhaps even a lunch date, do you suggest we should simply cancel everything and sit around stuck in your house because your B&B guests want to stay in bed all day. Again I reiterate, it is Bed and breakfast and that is how it has always been, please do not mistake it for a 3 star hotel....Too loose to say "friends" can do what they want in your home, being friendly is one thing treating strangers in your house as friends and popping out leaving them in your house is a little rife with problems. They go out, don't lock up, you are the chumps who come home to find it unlocked, won't say you would be robbed but many B&Bs may well be in areas that people come knocking at the door for many reasons and having it wide open is bit iffy to say the least.If you take it to the point that poeple are staying in thier rooms or hanging about on a regular basis, you are no longer a B&B in the real meaning, quite simply working like that would see many B&B's simply shut shop as it would become too much of a hellish job. Please see the post before for more explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 oops - I'm glad that response wasn't to my question! Miki, are you talking about the last day of a stay (in which case I don't know of anyone who would dream of not being 'out' by the time stated) or every day? It just seems odd if its the latter - not a very relaxing holiday if there are restrictions on when you can be in your room during your stay. I know it might be awkward for you if people hang around all day - but that is one of the reasons I shied away from doing a B&B type venture in the UK a few years ago, because its very tying. I'm just interested in knowing if the concept of a Chambre D'Hotes in France is that you have to vacate the premises during the day, for the owner's convenience. I mean, 'bed and breakfast' doesn't necessarily mean that you can't stay in your bed all day, does it? Just that if you haven't booked lunch and dinner, whether because you didn't bother or because its not available, then you can't expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote]But if you stay in your room all day, then waht are the owners meant to do ? Tey are now prisoners in their own home. Many of us have appointments still to make, perhaps even a lunch date, do you sugg...[/quote]Bit of a cross post there. I see your point, but as I said, this is one of the reasons I shied away from starting such a business. However, the place I looked at that was classed as a B & B in the UK had a communal entrance and living area and the guest rooms had individual keys and the guests could also have a key to the front door. Access to the owners private part of the house, including the kitchen and dining room, was lockable, so it would have been possible for the owners to go out without too much worry - I guess they felt it unlikely that guests would carry furniture out and made sure no valuables were in the communal area. I've stayed in more hotels than B & B's in Europe but those B & B's I have stayed in have been set up in a similar way. I guess this is not common for Chambe D'Hotes in France? In other words, they are not the same concept as a B & B in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote]oops - I'm glad that response wasn't to my question! Miki, are you talking about the last day of a stay (in which case I don't know of anyone who would dream of not being 'out' by the time stated) ...[/quote]Then if it is not your kind of relaxing holiday, then you would not book in to a B&B, surely ?Read the post before, we cannot legally do lunches and we do not do so. We have keys to the front door and the room door on all gusts key rings, so that if they need to come back early AND find us not home, they can get in. Remember, we need them out to do the cleaning and that doe snot just mean their rooms. We do not clean rtooms if the person has gone out late, unless we find the time to do so. Once that is done, they can, in thoery come back in and go to bed even but99% of our guests are far too correct and polite to take stupid liberties by being so rude as to lounge about and stay in bed.(Illnesses are of course accepted) We have a gite for people who want that kind if stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote]Then if it is not your kind of relaxing holiday, then you would not book in to a B&B, surely ?Read the post before, we cannot legally do lunches and we do not do so. We have keys to the front door and...[/quote]Well I guess not, in France, if that is the way a Chambre D'Hotes works. Thanks for clearing that up for me so I know what to avoid! Assuming that is the way all such enterprises work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richardbk Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I will learn absolutely knack all from you Richard, you do not have one iota of experience in the tourist industry and are looking at it from a point that simply says, I want what I want, no matter how rude I am, or how demanding I am, well I've got news for you, we treat our guests great but muck us about and treat us shabbily and not in the way we would treat other CdH folks and we couldn't give two monkeys if you never came within 50 miles of us ever again, simple. What a wonderful case in point. The problem with the tourist industry in france is that it thinks it knows best - after all we are just simple tourists that are expected to put up with what is on offer. - what should we know ?. The tourist industry in France is loosing market share. It maintains the faithful but even the French are starting to drift overseas, put off with the lack of facilities, poor service and relatively high costs. Like other forms of accommodation B&B in its traditional sense needs to adapt and change to a more demanding customer. The industry needs to reinvent itself because it is up against stiff competition - anybody that thinks otherwise is simply deluding themselves. As for GDF I wouldn't trust them to understand the reality of service and needs of the customer any better then La Poste or the Prefecture.regsRichard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 "....What a wonderful case in point. The problem with the tourist industry in france is that it thinks it knows best - after all we are just simple tourists that are expected to put up with what is on offer. - what should we know ?."All is explained if one can be bothered to read about us on the net or in the guide books or wherever. We don't promise anything we cannot deliver on.Come on then clever clogs, tell me how we can run our B&B fuller than full ? Well come on ? Do you have a centuries old secret that can produce an extra day or magic a secret room to put our "overs" in ? You talk from a point of view that wants the best by spending the least.The French are drifting abroad, really ! Only 20 plus years behind the rest of Europe then !! Of course French are going to seek new horizons, they should have done decades ago, mind you, we know plenty of French that have been travelling abroad for thirty years or more.....why wouldn'y many do so. All countries have them that stay and those that go abroad, nothing new there in my lifetime. You make it sound like a great surprise !! Why do you think we go to regional tourist meetings ? it isn't just for the crepes and cider !You talk in cliches of market share and people drifting away, it is the most natural thing in the world for people to have changing holiday habits. We barely have a room spare in May July and August and September we deal with a world market, all with differing habits annually, some you lose and some you gain...nothing new there."..As for GDF I wouldn't trust them to understand the reality of service and needs of the customer any better then La Poste or the Prefecture"And your knowledge of GdF in the 35 is exactly what, nowt but of course it suits your weak argument to quote such things. Get facts not cliches and paper cuttings. Experience, that's the name of the game and that you cannot offer any of us in the game...Tell you what one of the best restos in the area said the other lunch time, they are blaming a low percentage seasonal loss to date on the euro, you go figure that out, we are not suffering that loss ourselves so ? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote]Well I guess not, in France, if that is the way a Chambre D'Hotes works. Thanks for clearing that up for me so I know what to avoid! Assuming that is the way all such enterprises work?[/quote]Well those that are with GdF have to act in that way. British B&B's here we know, do more than they should do but that is not our problem. It was ruled like that, so as to not affect local restos and hotels which do not like the CdH's too much anyway as they naturally fear loss of trade, so regulations were put in place so CdH's do not act like hotels or hotel/restos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldie Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Interesting topic, but do we really have to call someone "Clever Clogs" just because he doesn't agree with your argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Thoughout my life calling someone "clever clogs" has never been in anyway a derogatory remark. I do not know where you come from but from where I come from, there are a million other words far worse than saying something as simple as that to someone, that's for sure. I personally find it rather bizarre that someones first post, is something quite so strange as to simply post, just to say that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I remember once arriving at our hotel in Cancale, (the Querrin (sp ?) Miki will know it)and my husband saying he fancied a snooze - my reply was that if he wanted to sleep he should have stayed at home, I wanted to go out and see the sights - whats the point of paying hundreds of pounds going away if you stay in bed ?(unless you are on honeymoon of course ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 MikiYou are a clever lad and I think you know the answer to your problem. A B&B is a B&B. A hotel is a hotel. The difference, all over the world that a B&B is a bed for the night and breakfast. A hotel is the same if you stay for just one night. But if you book a hotel stay for more than one night, you have access to your room all day. with a B&B you get a bed, not a roomSo, you tell your guests on booking or registration, politely of course, that unless there is an urgent or medical reason, you expect the rooms to be vacated by 10-30 or whatever each morning.to allow cleaning etc. In the old days you were lucky to let back in your room to get your pacamac after breakfast at most B&B's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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