Buying a restaurant - too good to be true?

[Viv]

My friends ( very keen to move to France) have  seen a restaurant for sale whilst on their hols that price wise to me seems too good to be true.

It is in a good location so they assure me and has ample living accomodation over the restaurant and kitchens etc. The  price for the building seems very reasonable, but it doesn't mention ' good will' ( is that the term used in the UK when you pay extra for taking over a business?) does such a thing exist in France?

I know they will do their homework and not rush into anything, but I just wondered if the price they have seen will be the price that they will pay for a going business.

[YCCMB]

It may be that the goodwill is all they'd be buying. Does the term "fonds de commerce" figure anywhere in the documentation?

[P]

Have they been in the restaurant trade before?

My dear wife who in the pub and restaurant trade before I met her has only one piece of advice for those contemplating it - don't.

Obviously, some will disagree with this but her point is that it is far harder work than you will imagine. If th chef decides that he is unhappy about something he will storm off and you then become the chef. You have to deal with the public, and just look at some of the threads here complaining about some of the overdemanding public.

So make sure that they realise what they will be letting themselves in for. 

[Viv]

They are both in the catering trade already and have been fairly sucessful although  obviously doing things in France is going to be very different.

Apparently the place is advertised as 'fonds de commerce' which if I understand the first reply properly this is for the good will. Now I know I said that it seemed a cheap price for a building but it seems a lot of money to fork out just for 'good will' , would they have to then pay a monthly rental on top?

The really confusing bit for me is that the advert also stated that there is constructible building land with it . [8-)]

They are en route back to the UK from the SW of France so I won't be able to speak to them again until after the weekend.

[YCCMB]

I'm no expert, but our local Hotel/bar has recently changed hands and only the "Fonds de Commerce" was being sold because the building belongs to the commune. I would assume that there will be a rental to pay on top, yes. Bit crazy, but in the case of our local, the "rules" for the tenant included one that they must live on the premises.  As there's insufficient space for them to do so, the commune is also building them new accommodation within the existing complex of the bar. The previous patron had managed not to have to "live in", as his own place was just around the corner. No idea about the constructible building land.bit, though.....

[shimble]

the present economic climate in france is making it difficult to sell a fond de commerce yes the price may well be reasonable however the cost of running a business in france is not reasonable especially if you intend to employ staff you will need to earn a lot of money in order to pay all your taxes and charges which is soul destroying when you see your income eaten away by the the charges imposed on your business

[Just Katie]

Hi Viv,

I went skiing last year in the Alps.  We found a lovely little Italian bar run by a larger than life Sicilian.  The beer, prices, pizza, music and atmosphere were spot on.  He was full every night all you could hear was that till ringing.  However, he told us he was soon to return to Italy.  He was paying so much is charges that it was just not worth trading in France.  I really was such a shame.

 

[Jc]

Following up on the post about a chef "storming-off"-this happened in a restaurant that we frequent-the quality improved when the owner started cooking;also staying in a small hotel in Devon,I commented to the owner that the food the previous night was very good and she replied that it was the chef's night-off and the local postman stood in for him.

[Will]

[quote user="Jc"]Following up on the post about a chef "storming-off"-... also staying in a small hotel in Devon...[/quote]

Not a place in Torquay run by a chap called Basil by any chance?

Seriously, if something seems too good to be true it probably is. It is, as previous posters have said, not easy to earn a living in France and there are a lot of restaurants and bars for sale, many including the buildings as well as fonds de commerce. It is with these that the bargains are to be found, because even if the business fails you will still have a building which, subject to conditions which you should check out, could be converted to a residence. There are also some real little gold mines of bar/restaurants, particularly those in towns and on main roads which attract a good lunchtime trade, and those in popular tourist locations - though they tend to be hard work and seasonal.

[MargaretD]

Not to want to sound pessimistic, BUT...

I've been "teaching" someone who has bought a butchers and needed to get his CAP so he could "run" it.  Would the French system mean that a qualified chef from the UK would have to have a CAP to start up the business?

[Dee]

Shimble........ you  have mentioned that it is difficult financially running a restautant in France.I can not talk of the whole of England but I can certainly tell you about London where I ran a type of retsaurant with 5 tables!My RENT and rates where 32,000 pounds per year.The refuse collection was another matter... and payable seperately and there was constant disruption of trade due to road repairs...which were related to fixing the Thames water problems.We had been  trading just over two months....had turential rain and our basement was seriously flooded.Our product was a little different...infact we were a Tratuer/cafe and we prepared  almost everything in our kitchen....confit, terrines...salads...pies...flans...cakes but we imported lots of French and Italian goodies ...the shop be

came like Aladins cave....that is Aladin enjoyed his food.

Saturday was crazy busy but every day was really hard work as three of us would spend an hour and a half every evening cleaning.Health and safety very important.There is, of course massive competition in England as every other person is an entrepreneur or a chef.Whether you are in France or England an d you want to make a living it is not wise to be shy of hard work.       

[Gastines]

Having recently looked into the possibily of buying a Cafe/Bar for our daughter, we found all the extra's a bit of a shock. Basically just the business goodwill was advertised[ not clear in the ad but I should have known as it seemed very cheap] On making enquiries, the extra's included a rent for the Cafe premises,rent for the flat above, rent for the decking area, and that was before all the normal taxes and personal cotisations etc.  Not a good investment unless you are a work horse and have plenty of funds behind you.

I remember watching a TV prog. about a couple who bought a cafe/restaurant in Spain. The wife vitually worked herself to death whilst the husband chatted to the customers. They had a very good trade thanks to the wife's efforts but it ended in tears and divorce.

Regards.

[Dee]

We sold our property near Cancale......nearer to Vivier ...actually Cherrieux and it was the mill kust opposite to the bay.Completely  empty of people untill at least May...interesting spot.Cancale really bustles in the summer........

There is a very particular sort of person who owns a successfull restarant and that is a person who enjoys working very hard....and the partner too.

[jon]

w

what is a  CAP please

[Cendrillon]

Dee said

There is a very particular sort of person who owns a successfull restarant and that is a person who enjoys working very hard....and the partner too.

Did anyone see Gordon Ramsey last night trying to turn-around a failing veggie restaurant in Paris? The owner had borrowed loads, owed a lot of money as well and did not put her heart and soul into the place so despite Gordon R. with his bright ideas and hard work it failed. I was just glad that he gave the young girl chef the opportunity to work in one of his restaurants in London, she really deserved it.

[Gemonimo]

jon, the CAP is the Certificate d'Aptitude Professionelle and covers most professions from couturier to boucher.  Jen

[Just Katie]

Little side step off topic but what happened to Viv, the OP?

[jon]

Thanks for the translation of Cap.

Should have watched the programme  mentioned.

My first restaurant was vegetarian....was one of the first...then we had a vegan restaurant.Very challenging and loved working hard.There is no choise in the restaurant buisness..........you have to work really hard to make it happen.

Many of my friends and collegues/associates are still in London and greater London doing their thing...some have young families and others have an empire which they have built and have become celebreties.

It has been my dream to venture outside the enviroment of ever busy London and  live and work in my country house..creating a refuge away from city life.

All this begins next week........I hope!!!!!!!

[Cendrillon]

Good luck and I hope it all works well for you

[tebee]

[quote user="MargaretD"]

.....  Would the French system mean that a qualified chef from the UK would have to have a CAP to start up the business?

[/quote]

Not if it's their own business, but anyone employed must be suitably qualified.

Tom

[hoverfrog]

if you have the business details (the SIRET number is a good start!) try www.infobilan.fr You can find out all the business accounts, projections, etc. how much they owe and for what - in fact more info than you will ever need! My friend is looking at taking over a hotel/restaurant and she has found the site invaluable.