Should I charge for cleaning ?

[Dick Smith]

Can I come in here as a customer?

We used to do gîtes (with the kids) and B&B (with friends). We used to clean up pretty well, but we had no money in those days, and would have preferred to spend what we had on our holiday rather than paying for cleaning. But now we would pay for the cleaning (as we do for our house) quite happily. Horses for courses.

So I would have appreciated the option, clean ourselves or stump up a bit extra and get the owners to arrange it.

I must say that a 9am leaving time would have led to a no-booking from us!

[Tresco]

Dick, you said just what I was thinking.

I have just been away for a couple of days, to a mobile home site by the seaside, and there was no option given but to clean. There were warnings supplied as to the costs of any individual stain, which were so punitive I was tempted to suggest the children and all surrounding furniture should be swathed in plastic before eating their cereals in the morning.

With three children under 6 (not mine) getting out even by 10am was a struggle. We only managed it by strapping the nippers in the car with a story CD on.

I was paranoid about the deposit after reading previous posts here, the result being that the place was left cleaner than we arrived. The cleaning turned up interesting amounts of fluff under beds, and  coathangers too; just about every coat-hanger in the place was recovered from under the beds. So much for the itinerary check on the previous occupants.

The children were very good, until they discovered the car horn, so at least we had the pleasure of seeing other 'campers' staggering out of their 'homes' in the morning drizzle.[;-)]

 

[CatherineS2]

Pun, your friends may well have wanted to leave by 9am in order to get to Calais, but I know that many many people do not want to drive 400kms in one day, and will break their journey by staying in a B&B on the way. This is what we do when we go south, it gives us the option to have a leisurely departure the day before our ferry and then drive half way to Calais. I would never stay in a gite that chucked me out at 9am - and I don't think I have EVER come across one with such an early departure time - they are nearly all 10am and some are even 11am. Similarly I have NEVER seen one that doesn't allow you in until 5pm - I am sure that 4pm is the norm.

If you are going to do this, I think you too need to make it very very clear in your T&Cs that you are going to have such punitive arrival and departure times as most people will not expect to be in so late or out so early.

[BJSLIV]

I must say that expecting guests to be out by 9:00 is one of the daftest T&C suggestions I have heard on this site. We have always found it a struggle to be out and loaded by 10:00 and would consider ourselves to be early risers. Such an early end time will only lead to;

Loss Of Bookings

Reduction in Cleaning.

Late departures (and how do you charge for those?)

As far as cleaning itself is concerned the main problem is that people have varying ideas of what clean actually means.

Do any of these make a place "unclean"?

Crumbs in a grill pan after making toast. Fat splashes on a hob. Soap on a shower curtain. Dust on tabletops. Footprints on the tiled floor.

We have friends who wouldn't even notice such things in their own homes, so they would be totally unaware that they were leaving a rented property in need of cleaning.

I know what our answer would be, but you should never underestimate the squalor in which many Telegraph and Guardian readers pass their time at home!

Then of course there are the really unpleasant ones who would consider cleaning to be something  done only by illegals & asylum seekers........

Fortunately not every houseproud family  has gone into the Gite rental business so there must be a few left still looking for somewhere to rent.[:)]

[Tresco]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

Do any of these make a place "unclean"?

Crumbs in a grill pan after making toast. Fat splashes on a hob. Soap on a shower curtain. Dust on tabletops. Footprints on the tiled floor.[/quote]

Yes!

Even the last one, (footprints) I would back myself out of a Gite and then - in socked/slippered feet - deliver the mop back to its place.

My own house is a tip, and I'm not proud of that, but I don't rent my home out, and I understand the sentiment 'do as you would be done by' and also the words which translate as 'everything must be left as you found it'.

I'm not bothered about the odd cob-web, or even foot print,  though.[:)]

Edited for grammar.

[KathyC]

I do think that much of this depends on what you're paying. If I've booked somewhere at a bargain price then I can see that the owners aren't making a great deal of money and I'll do my best to make sure they won't have to do too much cleaning up. If, on the other hand, I was paying a high price I would see how much money was being made and it would seem reasonable that some of that was being paid on a cleaning service or that the owners were doing some work for the money. If you're buying a high end product I would expect a high end service.

The most important thing to remember is that we all have different standards of domestic order. Even on these boards, when someone writes that "the place was left like a tip" if we could actually see it, some would be scandalised and some would wonder what the fuss was about. Damage and dirt that can't be removed is a totally different situation but does it really take much longer to vacuum a floor or wipe surfaces regardless of whether the outgoing guests have done it  themselves? If you, as an owner, have really high standards (and it's great that you do) you can't expect that others will necessarily share them. If their standards were as high as yours they would probably have to sacrifice a day's holiday to do the cleaning and you can't expect that.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Pun"]

Hi   Jon D.

Many thanks for your valued reply, just one question.

you say on page one of this topic the cleaning should be part of the cost, (as Ive said this is just what we will do)

But you go on to say, some people leave the place in a mess and some

leave it as if no one had stayed. (Q) Do you give a refund to the guest

who left it like nobody had stayed, after all they,ve paid in the

booking price for you to clean after they,ve gone havent they?

regards Pun

[/quote]

Dear Pun,

How nice it is to be valued. Sometimes (apart from the dog and the

chickens who think that I am great ALL of the time) I do feel a bit

unloved.

If you take a close look at the post in question you should see that we

give each of our places a thorough clean irrespective of the condition

it has been left in. That way we know it is clean with no nasty

little surprises (or spare change) lurking in dark corners. So, no, we

don't have a scale of discounts for relative cleanliness.

I think that you really will have difficulty persauding people to leave

at 9am or to arrive at 5pm. Your friends may prefer to do the trip in

one hop but many people will take an overnight break, particularly if

they have children. You can make it as clear as you like that they

shouldn't be around between 9 and 5, but believe me they will still do

it. The question is - what will you do then? You could, of course,

charge them on a per hour basis, but I can't help feeling that this

could leave something of a bad taste in their mouths...

[Ejc]

Tresco - am I glad to see someone else backs out with the mop before they go..... We've used gites and mobile homes for years for our holiday - and just as we keep our house clean and tidy at home  -we do the same for the holiday home. Most the our depature cleaning is done the day before we go and with willing hands it doesn't usually take too long maybe an hour or so - but there's usually between 4 and 6 of us doing this . We eat out on the last night - a bit of a blow out at our favourite eaterie, also means no more grease on the cooker. Breakfast the following morning would be croissant / jam and we've never found it difficult to leave the place clean and tidy. But that's just us - and one of the reasons we don't let our home is because far too many people don't keep their homes clean and tidy so it's not hard to think that they won't clean a holiday home.......as longs as your T&C are clear - if the place is not the way it should be - charge for the cleaning.

 

 

 

[Blanche Neige]

"(footprints) I would back myself out of a Gite and then - in socked/slippered feet - deliver the mop back to its place."

Tresco

We ask our clients to leave the house in a clean and tidy state (as they would wish to find it etc.) but this year with the agreement of our friend who does the changeovers we say that it is not necessary to wash the floors before leaving, just sweep them or vacuum. I think the floor washing is one of the hardest tasks to fit into the final clean and it is much easier for someone to do when the house has been vacated.

 

[cooperlola]

Thanks to all those who have stood up for us poor customers in all this.  "Do the housework" "Get out quick" - blooming heck who's the client here?  I understand that the houseproud amongst you may balk at this but sorry, I want a break from work, please!  In all the places I have rented over the years, I have tried to leave the places reasonably clean and tidy but at the end of the day I am paying.  Maybe factor the cost of cleaning into the price? or yes, offer the clean as an extra, then your clients will be in no doubt as to the fact that cleaning is their responsibility and not yours!

[zeb]

Absolutely! That's why we rent through gites-de-france, then we can choose whether we clean up or pay a cleaning charge. We all know where we stand (us and the owners), and as I said earlier, we always do a hoover up and basic clean of kitchen and bathroom before we leave. But, there is no way I'm going to spend the day before we leave scrubbing - pleeeeease - it's a one week stay for g**s sake and it's MY holiday.

I'm always fascinated by the posts on here - especially those of you who spend your time guest watching; how many times they use the washing machine, go out, have friends round etc etc. Me thinks some of you are definitely in the wrong job!!

[Cassis]

[quote user="Pun"]

HI CASSIS,

Again T&G, make sure they know and understand the terms and conditions, if they break them by costing valuable change over time they then pay.

But make sure they do know this.

[/quote]

Sorry, Pun, you've lost me here.  T&G?  Tongue and Groove? [:)]

You're not really trying to tell me that as a B&B owner I should start charging people extra if they're not out of the room on time (even though it is clearly stated on the info sign on the inside of each bedroom door) and I need to clean it?  I find a knock on the door carrying the cleaning box and pulling a hoover behind me usually works fine without getting heavy about it.

[Russethouse]

Pun,

I think you are assuming an awful lot - that people will come straight from the ports is just your assumption - will you only  have  British  guests then ?

Neither do people really want to pay extra because they do not fit your 'model' if you want a successful gite business - think long and hard

 

[Pun]

You are 100% correct, I couldnt have put it any better myself  a holiday is time spent holidaying not cleaning.

Well said zeb.

[Pun]

How many gites did you say you run ?

Russethouse.

[Dick Smith]

That is a stupid comment. You need to listen to those of us who are customers, not make snide remarks.

[Pun]

Good on you CASSIS,

If you have found a sure way of getting your guest out with a broom,

who could ask for more well done.

[Cassis]

No, a vaccum cleaner!  [:)]

PS  I do enjoy an occasional leg-pull - that works, too.  [:)]

[Pun]

HI  Jon D,

Ive had a good think ref times since your reply and also had a word with 2 gite owners, and again the leaving times comes up time and time again,

some say out by 9am and some 10am

Both have said by doing all the cleaning them selves it saves the quest hours off the holiday, so for them to have a full clean done on the day of leaving its not a bad thing to be out early,

it was pointed out to me if you say 9am it will be 10am befor they leave if you say 10 it will be 11 ish so taking all this in, and saying the next guest arrive at 4pm not 5pm this leaves 11ish til 4pm= 5hours cleaning /gardening plus any out of the norm damage to sort out,

Im still thinking of the time and ensuring the next guest get a full good deal not a problem unsolved due to lack of time.

I wouldnt want to upset anyone but this gite will be and all inclusive holiday with all the stops pulled out,

Jon D , thanks for your help on this one , keep the advice coming.

[KathyC]

Pun, I'm not sure that I agree with your timings but I do think that it's worth reminding people that earlier in the thread you were the one who was the most pro the customers and put their holiday enjoyment first.

I do wonder whether some of the posters here who have been most vehement about getting the guests to do the work for them are the same people who, on other threads, have been decrying the lack of customer service with French businesses. I  really think that some of you, with some of the chambres d'hote owners, are in the wrong line of business.

[Cassis]

Can I just clarify that most B&Bs don't ask people to clean the room before they leave?  Just in case there's any confusion here.  Always best to make things clear.

[cooperlola]

Thanks Dick.  No, I don't run a gite but I've rented them.  I was also in marketing for both retail and hotel companies at quite a senior level.  I realise, everthing would be great if it weren't for the bl**dy customers.  You should set your prices (for whatever product it may be) according to the cost of serving both the best and the worst kind of customers then you won't be in for too much of a shock.  Don't you always hate it when you see the price of a thing adveritsed then read the small print and see that there are extras you can't do without that send the price up?  Your customers feel just the same way.  If you rent a cottage for a holiday, a holiday is what you want, not a job as a cleaner.  Also, do you really feel comfortable in a place where you worry all the time that you might spill a glass of wine or a chip a plate?  If I looked through the responses to this thread, I would quickly realise whose gite I would be happy to rent and whose I wouldn't. When you advertise your gite you should make it clear that only clean tidy people are welcome.  Perhaps you would be better just taking adults?  Or maybe just have a large sign on your doormate saying "Slobs not Welcome."

It's an old addage but a good one "if you don't like the heat..." Difficult customers are part of life, no matter what you are selling.  "Think long and hard" was a good piece of advice.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]That is a stupid comment. You need to listen to those of us who are customers, not make snide remarks.
[/quote]

Thanks Dick. & cooperlola

 

[Miki]

To all of you who think some of us should not be in the game at all.

Gorrocks !

To anyone having done it longer than us, bluddy well done, I take my hat off, I really do. !

To any having just started, sorry but we have seen you arrive and we

have seen sadly too many of you leave, big plans of how you are all

going to evolutionise the renting biz, then a while later, see the

business in total shreds !  We have all too often had folks tell

us where we were going wrong (they had no idea of our figures and

weekly lets or our number of room lets in the B&B's) and tell us

what they were going to do, which would be so different that they would

be full, even through January and February.

We smile weakly and say "Oh well Done"

At the outset, we had very few people we could ask about what we should

be doing but we did whatever we were meant to do and here we are still

in the tourist trade, albeit different to how we started but, still

here.

OK, you might say, we might still be here and we might still be doing

it wrong, which is strange, as anyone getting it wrong doesn't last

long in this game. So let's say we are getting it almost

right...............but still it comes at us, that we are doing it

wrong....I know what it is that the people think, it is a belief that

you and only you have the secret and somewhere in the old brain box,

something says not to listen to others, however long they have been at

the game.

That is such a waste of experience, yep, we lost a few bob finding our feet and then one day, the jigsaw

kind of fell in to place and we were on our way. If anyone doesn't want

to listen to those of us who feel we have been through it and come out

the other side, no skin of my nose, after all, I may still be getting

it wrong.

I won't say how many weeks we let for for or how many rooms we sell in

a year, it won't make a scrap of difference to those who know they will

do better, so we shall just soldier on knowing next week or sometime,

some more newbies will be along to tell us we are doing it all

wrong............................

As for 9h00, not that long ago we had a huge number of properties in

our portfolio of letting places, none that I can remember had less than

10h00 departures but.............

And one other thing, once I was once told by a forum member (another

forum), that I would not get any guests from that particular forum, the

way I spoke about guests !! Well that was OK, I didn't post on there or

here looking for guests but anyone who wanted to gain/ask a few tips or

ideas were welcome to them but it appears, the ones who tell us we are

doing things wrong before, are perhaps now popping up on here !

As for cleaning of gîtes, don't bring hotels in to the equation, they

are as far removed from B&B's and gîtes as is possible. Two people

versus a team of  cleaners, staff manning the phone, gardener (s),

bar, kitchen and resto etc etc not really a comparison at all.

Self catering is the name of the game and T&C's are the wording to

look for, you don't want to clean, OK, so look through the rules.

If it says you must leave it as found, don't book, if it says "we clean

after you" or it says that a cleaning charge is included, book. Now am

I so clever that everyone has overlooked the obvious ?

Like Cassis said, we never ask guests to clean the bed and breakfast  rooms, whoever does that !!

[quote] It's an old addage but a good one "if you don't like the heat..."

Difficult customers are part of life, no matter what you are selling. 

"Think long and hard" was a good piece of advice.[/quote]

Never known many who had  job they totally liked, so getting out

of the kitchen is one of the most ridiculous statements to come up with

regarding work of any kind. By that old adge, the streets would be

teeming with folks all looking for new jobs to suit !! We get by, we do

what we have to do, we

make the rules, if you don't or anyone else doesn't like them, then

just walk on and give us a swerve. No harm done we will still be here

for those who feel fine to abide by our simple rules. If we had to put slobs stay out, then we would not have not got our T&C's properly written in the first place.

Anyone else want to tell me how to run our place and  tell us how

we are getting it all wrong ? I don't mind, I really don't, well as

long as you offer me how you run yours that is...................!

Big day tomorrow eh !!

[Eslier]

I have been following this with interest. The gite rental business is no different from any others and has and will continue to develop. It is a good thing when suggestions such as those made by Pun encourage us to think "outside the box". It is interesting to note that many gite owners are getting closer to the "all inclusive" holiday with things like electricity and bed linen etc. now included witin most summer pricing.

My own thoughts are that  the idea of all cleaning being inclusive should be an attraction to potential clients but, surprisingly, my own experience tells me otherwise.  Our gites are at the top end of the pricing scale and for most of our clients money isn't really a problem. Ours are the sort of clients who will quite happily pay for a Friday night / Saturday Brittany Ferries crossing in the peak season at anything up to £800 return. You might think, therefore, think that paying a few extra Euros (anything between 35 and 75 depending on the size of the property) for the optional cleaning service would be a popular option. Not so !  We are currently on booking number 48 of the year (some one week and some two week bookings) and of those, just three have opted to pay for cleaning.

We have an arrangement with a local gite maintenance company wherby our guests can call them in on the Friday prior to the Saturday of their departure. The money is paid direct to them so it is made clear that we are not trying to profit from the arrangement.

I would say we've probably had about another three groups who clearly haven't made much effort whatsoever to clean up after them, about another three who have done a fantastic job of cleaning up and the majority just make a bit of effort and do an ok job. In any case, the properties are thoroughly cleaned to a high standard prior to the arrival of the next guests.

One thing that confuses me Pun, why do you think you need eight hours for cleaning one gite ?  Will you be the only one doing the cleaning ?  If there are two of you, then 10am to 4pm gives you 12 man hours which should be enough to give even a fairly large property a pretty good clean.  If you are on your own then perhaps it would be worth employing someone to come in and give you a hand. I must say that I agree with the sentiments of others that I don't think 9am departures and 5pm arrivals will be popular with your guests.