Lobbying !

[cooperlola]

You have PM![:)]

[Will]

It seems to assume, from a chance remark made by Sarko, that French nationals would be treated the same as the British. Something which, to judge from many of the other quotes and links, is still undecided. If it is indeed the case, it would seem, in my opinion, to validate the need for British inactives to take out private health insurance to cover them until E121 is available. But in my opinion it would be well worthwhile querying and contesting this as far as existing residents - French and other Europeans - are concerned.

[Suninfrance]

Thanks for the PM Coops.  A letter to that effect will be winging it's way to my MEP as soon as I've finished knocking up this chicken curry.

Jan

[cooperlola]

I got a similar letter from James Elles.  If anybody is interested, here is my reply:

"Thank you for taking the time to reply to my e-mail.

However, I am not convinced that you or Mr Bowis have studied the French
legislation, or appreciate its implications vis a vis non French EU
nationals here.  It is also sad to see that this same ill-informed letter is
being passed to a number of people who are being seriously affected by the
way in which the French government is interpreting EU legislation to their detrement,
apparently with the tacit agreement of some UK MEPs.

You stated that the French Government's new legislation is compatible with
EU law.  By which I suppose you mean that they are simply upholding
Directive 38/2004 which requires that any 'inactive' wishing to move to
France should have 'comprehensive sickness insurance'. I am sure that you
are well aware that this requirement is not a new initiative but existed in
the legislation that Directive 38/2004 replaced.  In which case, why is it
that for the last 7 years 'inactive' British nationals living in France were
required by French law to join the French Health system via the CMU  and
that if a British national had in fact had private 'comprehensive sickness
insurance', they would have been in breach of French law ?

 I am sure that the French Government has not sought to disregard European
law for the past 7 years but that perhaps instead, the French Government
were able to make use of a "more favourable provision " clause which allowed
British nationals in France to legally affiliate to the CMU without either
party being in breach of European law.

It is worthy of note, that a similar provision exists in the present
Directive  and as such, France could continue to accept both current and
newcomers into their health system. The French Government have not been
legally forced into their current position by the Directive, they have
voluntarily chosen to take this stance.

Why Mr Bowis believes that the French CMU is not avaiable to French
inactifs, I do not know.  There is absolutely no suggestion that that is the
case, and I am not sure where he has got this bizarre information from. The
French CMU (Couverture Maladie Universelle) is quite clear in its conditions
for entry,

http://www.cmu.fr/site/cmu.php4?Id=5&PHPSESSID=31f391728f618242091f9f8e2cf67194

and nowhere is it stated that French "inactifs" are now to be excluded from
it.  So clearly, even though UK citizens comply with each and every
condition within it - apart from the fact of their national origin and the
colour of their passport - the discrimination here is against our country of
birth, not our employment situation.

Further, the condition for EU nationals in the UK to receive NHS treatment,
is based purely on residence, is it not? Clearly, Mr Bowis is also unaware
of the legislation in the UK too! No legal resident of the UK has to pay for
NHS treatment do they?  Only UK nationals who live in other EU member states
will be asked to pay.

Those of us who live in France currently, complied with the conditions of
residence here in France,as they legally existed when they moved.  They have
already gained and established their right of residency and are, ipso facto,
settled here, as of right. However, the retrospective nature of this move,
is to alter the conditions for those who have already complied.  How is this
even legal, let alone moral?

Finally, it is a condition, under EU directives, to publicise fully, any
changes which are made which affect or may affect citizens of member states.
Clearly, this has not been done.  Around 7,000 UK citizens alone, have E106s
which are running currently.  It is likely that at least 30% of these are
about to lose all access to state healthcare in January.  Many others face
exclusion from the CMU in March next year.  And yet, the British Embassy's
Paris arm has a website which still informs citizens that they can join the
CMU - even though its sister site in the UK has been altered.  No official
announcement has been made in either the UK or the French media, and the
French health helplines and websites are still unclear and ill-informed.  If
nothing else, this directive alone is being flouted.

In view of the above, I hope that you will be able to see, that we, the
citizens of the United Kingdom, who are doing nothing but exercise our
rights to free movement within the European Community, should not be treated
in this shameful way, and that we deserve the state healthcare to which we
have been contributing, and to which we are happy to continue to contribute
for as long as we live and breathe (or are allowed to).

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Suninfrance"]Thanks for the PM Coops.  A letter to that effect will be winging it's way to my MEP as soon as I've finished knocking up this chicken curry.

Jan
[/quote]You are welcome. It probably needs a bit of "tweeking" as it was replying to a slightly different letter, and a bit of personalisation, but thanks for continuing to bash your head against this brick wall.  We may make a c  hink one day!

[Chassaing]

One down!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article390529.ece

One to go! 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/healthinFrance/

Please  keep bashing your friends.......  I don't have any friends anymore...  :)

 

[Will]

News items from BBC local radio today:

"Thousands take to the streets to protest about changes in healthcare provision"

No, nothing to do with France. It was about proposed downgrading of certain Sussex hospitals.

But why are those affected by the proposed French changes not marching on Sarko's Paris residence?

[Chassaing]

[quote user="Will"]

News items from BBC local radio today:

"Thousands take to the streets to protest about changes in healthcare provision"

No, nothing to do with France. It was about proposed downgrading of certain Sussex hospitals.

But why are those affected by the proposed French changes not marching on Sarko's Paris residence?

[/quote]

Good idea, but I think it is worth watching to see what happens with the big boys first...  If he doesn't listen to these guys then the EU has to be the better route, IMHO.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=United+Kingdom+%26+Europe&month=October2007&file=World_News2007102792827.xml

[powerdesal]

Interesting times ahead. Sarkozy is going to have to face down the Unions a la Thatcher. Then the future for France may be better, only "may" of course.

Hard times for some thats for sure.

[Poppy]

[quote user="Will"]

News items from BBC local radio today:

"Thousands take to the streets to protest about changes in healthcare provision"

No, nothing to do with France. It was about proposed downgrading of certain Sussex hospitals.

But why are those affected by the proposed French changes not marching on Sarko's Paris residence?

[/quote]

As I said on another thread I think those people with sufficient means to pay for private health insurance dont envisage any problems. Let's hope they don't experience the reality.

[Tony F Dordogne]

And how many people supported Sarkosy in here during the election Steve, wanting him to do for France what Thatcher did for the UK?

Well, he's started to do it and he's picking off the bits round the outside before he hits the unions and vested interests - disparigingly referred to elsewhere on LF as the overflowing rice bowls - head on.  Interesting that many - but not all - of us live here because we managed to let our rice bowls overflow for a while and have the aspirational life style here.

It will be interesting to see how many supporters of Sarkosy, from whichever country they originate, continue to do so when, as is happening now, they find their life style under threat.  I can see it now outside the Elycee 'Thatcherites against private health care', it will make Tory Central Office wince a time or two I think.

Pleased the Government dug up the cobbles after the troubles in the 1960s.  Perhaps we could throw our jars of Marmite and Branston Pickle at the CRS instead? 

[cooperlola]

The petition

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/healthinFrance/

now has around 990 signatures; let's get it over the thousand mark!

[Suninfrance]

Just went onto the e-petition again at Downing Street and notice there over a thousand signatures now.  I have already signed and OH asked me to sign him up as well which I duly did, but it has registered my name again despite the fact I clearly wrote Ray and NOT Jan.   Doh!

[cooperlola]

Proof positive today, that exclusion from the CMU is for non-French EU nationals only.  See page 4 in THIS  document.

PLEASE be sure not to let any of your    MEPs off the hook if they start to suggest that the lesigislation applies to French nationals too - that  is CLEARLY RUBBISH!  There was also a tacit admission from one of the CPAMs yesterday, that the CMU is also available to non-Europeans. 

[Suninfrance]

Is this not clear discrimination?

I notice that http://www.cpam87.fr/siteweb/anglais/ does not have up to date information either. 

[BJSLIV]

See page 4 in THIS  document...........

la CMU de base et de la CMU complémentaire

Et not Ou!

.....Which refers to the free part of the CMU, the part intended for the very poor.

I hope that you are not trying to convince anyone that new immigrants should be allowed to qualify for basic cover with no contributions and free complementaire. That really would undermine any credibility or chance of success.

Not that it really matters because we have always known that we are to be excluded from both. Similarly we have known all along that it refers only to non-French , after all the regulations are concerned with immigration.

What we still don't have is anything that indicates how persons with more than five years residence will be treated. That would be interesting.

As for how French inactifs are to be treated , to date I am not aware of anything that changes their status, other than fiscal measure which try to make it less attractive to retire people early.

[derf]

Maybe this quote on page 3 was the one intended.

A noter : les ressortissants communautaires inactifs qui viennent s’installer en France ne peuvent le faire que s’ils disposent de ressources suffisantes et d’une couverture maladie préalable. Ils ne peuvent donc pas prétendre au bénéfice de la CMU de base et de la CMU complémentaire 4.

4

En application de la directive 2004/38/CE du Parlement Européen et du Conseil du 29 avril 2004 transposée en

droit français par la loi n°2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006 relative à l’immigration et à l’intégration et le décret n°2007-371

du 21 mars 2007.

[cooperlola]

The point I was making was that we have had a lot of replies from MEPs who are stating that the French early-retired aren't allowed entry into the CMU (both versions) either.  This document proves this is definately not the case.  The only people mentioned who cannot benefit from it are non-French Europeans.  And both notes - and yes, I do see that it says and -  appear on my reading to say that they're not entitled to either version.  But a French person, and any other non-European who has right of residence, is.

[cooperlola]

This short piece appeared in today's Western Morning News:

"France/Health care - letter:  Concern at change in French health care (Letter from Giles Chichester MEP to Western Morning News, 30 Oct):  "I have written to the Prime Minister expressing concern about impending changes to the French state healthcare system which will adversely affect British people who have moved to France on early retirement. The French Ministry of Health confirms that those who are not employed or self-employed will be required to take out private health insurance"

Is there anybody out there in the area who'd be prepared to write to the editor of the newspaper in response?

[email protected]

[Joshua]

I've received am email from Rt Hon David Cameron MP this morning

He had done a speech on immigration and refered to net immigration.

I explained our position and added that if nothing is done there will several thousand more coming back to the UK, and fewer coming here !

He can't say he doesn't know of our plight. I asked him to sign the petition.

Joshua[:D]

[makfai]

Can't remember if these have been posted before (probably have!) but it wont do any harm to mention them again. 

 

The processes are pretty straightforward for someone wanting to express a grievance to the EU.

 

EU Petition

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/staticDisplay.do?id=49&language=EN

 

EU Complaint

http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/your_rights/your_rights_en.htm

 

EU Ombudsman

http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/home/en/default.htm

[Glyn]

Conservatives Abroad have finally woken up

Please go to to http://www.conservativesabroad.org/blog/?p=218 where they want to hear from anybody who has been affected by the changes.

Glyn

[cooperlola]

Blimey! The conservative party appears to have woken up to us!

Could anybody affected by the healthcare changes, please VISIT THIS SITE ASAP.

Thanks.

Sorry Glyn, you beat me to it!

[SheilaG]

Done! More than the labour party has done.....I think any avenue is worth prodding.

[Mrs B]

Done. Let's hope they do something. Having written to 23 MPs and MEPs in the UK and France over the last 3 weeks, I've only had one reply and that was negative so I don't hold out much hope.