cooperlola Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Another MEP on our side, and very positive in her approach. "Thank you for your email expressing concern that the French government isdue to implement changes to the national health care system that willadversely affect your ability to access medical treatment. I am concernedthat this situation has arisen and believe it needs addressing as a matterof urgency by the European Commission. Directive 2004/38/EC, which the French authorities are citing asjustification for the proposed changes, is concerned with 'the right ofcitizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freelywithin the territory of the Member States'. It states very clearly that EUcitizens have the right of residence in another member state for a period oflonger than three months, as long as they have sufficient resources not tobecome a burden on the host member state and have comprehensive sicknessinsurance cover in the those member state.Citizens residing in another member state for less than three months can begranted social assistance, which includes health care, at the discretion ofthe host member state. Once citizens have resided in France long enough tobe granted permanent status (5 years uninterrupted residency) any conditionsare dropped, because the legislation provides for equal treatment withnationals ie the ability to access health care in the same way as Frenchcitizens.Directive 2004/38/EC was agreed in April 2004 and the French government hadto transpose it into national law by the end of April 2006 at the latest.From the date of transposition you became responsible for ensuring that youhad comprehensive sickness insurance cover. In its most straightforwardsense, applying the law to existing UK citizens living in France is notretrospective - laws change and in this instance the new law applies to allexisting and future residents from other EU member states, not just peoplethat enter France after the law has changed. Similarly, if France adopted alaw that said all citizens were required to eg pay a new tax, that wouldclearly apply to all existing citizens, not just those that reached taxpaying age after the law comes into force.However, the situation is complicated by the fact that you were obliged topay into CMU when taking up residence in France and were prevented fromtaking out private health care insurance at the time. These rules mean thateffectively you have been paying into a system guaranteeing future healthcare that you may not now be able to access - and that certainly seemsunjust.The lack of clear information, and at times conflicting information, is ofconsiderable concern, so I shall be writing to both the Commission and theUK government, who have a responsibility to provide accurate advice throughthe British embassies in France, about this. I will also, of course, ask theCommission to confirm the situation for all UK citizens living in France,including E121 and E106 holders and with regard to EHIC, as well as checkthat the French national law properly reflects EU law. Most importantly Iwill call on them to put pressure on the French authorities to introduceadditional measures in order that those residents that have already beenpaying into CMU are guaranteed some kind of benefits equivalent to theircontributions.Please be aware that, as far as I understand the situation, the Frenchauthorities are entitled to change the system in this way. I do not,however, believe that it is acceptable for UK residents to have been obligedto pay into a system from which they are now not able to benefit and thisshould be the main focus for action. The Commission may be reluctant topress France to address this aspect of the problem, so I believe that it isworth considering bringing a petition before the European Parliament. All EU citizens have the right to do this about matters that form part ofthe remit of the EU. As the relevant webpage advises: A petition may take the form of a complaint or a request and may relate toissues of public or private interest.The petition may present an individual request, a complaint or observationconcerning the application of EU law or an appeal to the European Parliamentto adopt a position on a specific matter. Such petitions give the EuropeanParliament the opportunity of calling attention to any infringement of aEuropean citizen's rights by a Member State or local authorities or otherinstitution.Petition can be submitted by individuals or groups and, in this case, Ibelieve a group petition from UK citizens living in France is advisable. Ihave received a number of emails about these changes and am willing tofacilitate the sharing of email contact details amongst other affectedpeople.Finally, I would like to recommend the services provided by ECAS, whoundertake case work related to the free movement of citizens in the EU. Thank you for raising this issue with me. As soon as I have a response fromthe European Commission and/or the British government I will get back intouch. In the meantime, if you would like to be put in contact with otherinterested UK citizens living in France, please let me know. I hope thewebsites below are useful and if you require any further information, pleasedo not hesitate to get back in touch.Dr Caroline Lucas MEPSuite 58 The Hop Exchange24 Southwark StreetLondon SE1 1TY Phone: 02074076281 Fax: 02072340183Email: [email protected] Website: www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk "We are gathering momentum and have some good helpful people on our side so please keep up the good work. 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rothrugby Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Hi,Just to let everyone know that the situation is being covered on the Jeremy Vine show Radio 2 Wednesday 10th October at 13.30 french time. Peter Owen of French Entree is doing the factual bit and Mrs Rothrugby will be the human interest story. Hope I don't let you all down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Well done, will be glued to the radio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Well done you, I'll record it.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Good news that Peter Owen is going to be on the programme. He's way ahead of the rest of them in this respect, so we'll be sure to get the proper facts aired.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Its great to hear that we are making progress with the five year rule and pre-existing illnesses.In the letters I've been writing I'm asking that the criteria applied is that if you hold a Carte Vitale you are allowed tojoin the French Health Service when the E106 entiltlement runs out. I'm assuming that no one would start to buy a house or make any long term commitments in France without sorting out their health coverIf this was applied and made common knowledge in the UK no one should "burn bridges" before leaving Britain.I'm writing to the MEP's home addresses as well as emails, which might just get zapped. These are available from www.upmystreet.co.uk I've no experience with private insurance. If you get a serious long term illness during a year of insurance, does it become a notifiable pre-existing illness when insurance renewal time comes round again and is then excluded from cover.Joshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Good point about burning bridges!I think it is safe to say that medical insurance will NOT cover the costs of recurrent,continuing or long term treatment of chronic medical conditions - even if they arise after you have taken out insurance!! If you can find a company that does - please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Joshua : I'm assuming that no one would start to buy a house or make any long term commitments in France without sorting out their health coverIf this was applied and made common knowledge in the UK no one should "burn bridges" before leaving Britain.If anybody is getting their information from this articlehttp://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=34163&hilitethey won't be thinking that private health insurance is that much of a hassle! It's dreadful to see people like this (who have such a profit motive and obviously don't want to see the tide of UK buyers in France stemmed) making it sound as if it's just a minor hiccup!I've no experience with private insurance. If you get a serious long term illness during a year of insurance, does it become a notifiable pre-existing illness when insurance renewal time comes round again and is then excluded from cover.That depends upon the company, some are better than others in this regard. But certainly chronic conditions (asthma, diabetes etc) are not looked upon favourably after the first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 [quote user="rothrugby"]Hi,Just to let everyone know that the situation is being covered on the Jeremy Vine show Radio 2 Wednesday 10th October at 13.30 french time. Peter Owen of French Entree is doing the factual bit and Mrs Rothrugby will be the human interest story. Hope I don't let you all down!![/quote]Just to remind people to tune in........thanks rothrugbyhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 If it's a phone in - phone in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothrugby Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Re Jeremy Vine radio interview- I've just been told it's been cancelled. They are doing an outside broadcast from Paris in November so will probably cover it then. Looks like something they considered more important came up. Oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Shame R/R, but that's the way with the media.[:(] Keep us in touch if this happens next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothrugby Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I've just reviwed this letter from Caroline Lucas. Does anyone out there intend to follow thsi part up or not?The Commission may be reluctant topress France to address this aspect of the problem, so I believe that it isworth considering bringing a petition before the European Parliament. All EU citizens have the right to do this about matters that form part ofthe remit of the EU. As the relevant webpage advises: A petition may take the form of a complaint or a request and may relate toissues of public or private interest.The petition may present an individual request, a complaint or observationconcerning the application of EU law or an appeal to the European Parliamentto adopt a position on a specific matter. Such petitions give the EuropeanParliament the opportunity of calling attention to any infringement of aEuropean citizen's rights by a Member State or local authorities or otherinstitution.Petition can be submitted by individuals or groups and, in this case, Ibelieve a group petition from UK citizens living in France is advisable. Ihave received a number of emails about these changes and am willing tofacilitate the sharing of email contact details amongst other affectedpeople. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Rothrugby, our little lobby group is coming a long nicely and we hope to have a website up and running shortly. I've written back to Caroline Lucas and we'll hope to liaise with her once we've got a proper strategy agreed and worked out.If anybody is interested in helping us out, please e-mail me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothrugby Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I've just looked at the ECAS website at www.ecas.org. A site for an EU organisation to assist in free movement of EU nationals. Very interesting as it clearly details the provisons of Directive 2004/38/EC and states very clearly the 5 year rule. I have e mailed them to see if they can help to ensure thsi rule is covered in teh French application of the directive. Why don't we all E mail them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 rothrugby,I notice that in the link you provided it states:-'However, until the right permanent residence has been aquired, the host member state is not obliged to grant entitlement to social security to persons other than employed or self-employed...'I think that we are hoping that this means that once aquiring permanent residence (ie after 5 years) we would be entitled to social security. My question is do we know that when the directive mentions 'Social Security' this includes health cover and not just things like unemployment.Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 And from the French newpapers and the Herald Tribune of today: The Belgians are also going to start implementing the 5 years rule and will be using the same EU legislation to restrict access to the Belgian health system for immigrants and non actifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 sorry to read the Jeremy Vine story has been dropped , I have used the BBC on line form to register my disappointment.http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/contact.shtml#form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Tony, I had heard this, also about Holland. It is the reason why Mary Honeyball and others are approaching this as a Europe-wide problem. Any thoughts about upping sticks and finding a member state which will not apply rules like these begin to shrink. Unless you look at newly admitted states who were expected to agree to apply universal state healthcare to all Europeans, before being allowed entry. Ironic, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 [quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]And from the French newpapers and the Herald Tribune of today: The Belgians are also going to start implementing the 5 years rule and will be using the same EU legislation to restrict access to the Belgian health system for immigrants and non actifs.[/quote]The EU Directive which underpins this (2004/38/EC) applies to all member states. UK has already introduced it UK Legislation: Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003 The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20061003.htm#13It would be useful to monitor how each member state is applying it. Fore example, does Belgium apply it to existing residents? As far as UK goes we have heard nothing. I have asked all the MPs & MEPs how this applies in UK and not had a single reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothrugby Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Hi,Just recieved the following from my Euro MP, Glenis Wilmott Mr A.J. Ackland Our Ref: GW/PC/ACKL01001/01071107 05 October 2007 Dear Mr Ackland, Thank you for your recent letter concerning French health reforms. I have written to the European Commissioner for health, Markos Kyprianou, on your behalf and will write to you again when I have a reply. Best wishes Glenis Willmott MEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassaing Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 If the UK PMs won't sort the story attached, what can be done for a few French Expats? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=N0BJB0203DQKPQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/11/ncdiff111.xmlRegards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassaing Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 [quote user="lebois"]If the UK PMs won't sort the story attached, what can be done for a few French Expats? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=N0BJB0203DQKPQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/11/ncdiff111.xmlRegards[/quote]I'm sorry everyone, but letting people die in UK hospitals and UK Citizens in France is unacceptable. It is about time MPs were in court for Manslaughter as well, perhaps the laws would be more carefully worded to protect people. Please keep lobbying! We need to shout louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassaing Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hi Everyone,Here is another opportunity! Tell all your friends and family.http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/healthinFrance/Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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