how quick is french health care

[Dave&Olive]

hi

     just had to post this one . Olive and I went to the doc`s on monday ,he said he wanted Olive to have some blood tests, so he gives her a form,phoned the nurse who came out at 9.am prompt next day tuesday, and had the results by  la poste 12.00 wednesday,dropped them off in the docs mail box at 2pm ish he phoned Olive at 4.30pm to say everything is perfect.

            the french health care the mind just boggles , how long would it take in the uk .......

        oh she has just had her free flu jab today

              dave

[Alexis]

Can beat you there Dave.  Gilles went for his blood test yesterday morning, they faxed the results to the doctor, he phoned and by 2.00pm he was in emergency.

We still don't know exactly what is wrong....or he isn't telling me.

[Val_2]

Same as you Dave,in fact one time the nurse was already at ours waiting for us to get back from the doctor.Results next day,doctors later in same day.

[Val_2]

Forgot to mention that it is quite usual for my Dad to wait 2-2.5weeks for a result in the UK and then,another week to get an appointment with the doctor to discuss the results.

[Tony F Dordogne]

I know that other people may have had bad experiences here in France but as somebody who has to have regular blood tests - I've had 8 since we arrived in February - the system here beats the UK hands down as far as I'm concerned.

It's even got to the stage where I phone for an appointment and the nurses know who I am and where I live, if they're out, they just turn up the next morning.  Results with me and the Doc, mine via the Pharmacie, next morning.

In the UK I've waited weeks for test restults at my GPs and then have the frustration of having to phone the 'results line', always engaged and when I get through to be told the Doc hasn't seen the results yet, they're lost (like single socks, wonder where all the lost medical reports end up) or they haven't arrived yet after a three week turn around.

I get to see my specialist here within a week, just telephone for an appointment and my change from 60/whatever% to 100% for all the medication was dealt with my specialist and CPAM in 6 days.

Need a new filing cabinet though for all the paperwork that it generates but now have some great pics of my internals bits and pieces to bore the family with.

[Russethouse]

Val, If I was your Dad I think I would move ! He always seems to get the very worst treatment available where as my mother, who lives in Cookham, not a million miles away gets much better service. Not as quick as France I grant you but certainly with in a week. She also has great doctors......(luckily she doesn't need them very much)

[Will]

I have to say that my own experience is different. I recognise that in England we had a particularly good medical practice and I also had access to the private sector. There, I could get an appointment at the NHS doctor for the next day, if a blood test was needed the practice nurse could do it there and then and the results would be back with the doctor within two or three days. For routine tests, at the BUPA hospital, certain results could be confirmed within hours.

In France a doctor's appointment is normally 3-4 days away (unless one is prepared to give up a whole morning waiting for the open surgery), you have to see the doctor to get a prescription. Then one has to go to the nurse before 8am on the next day the cabinet is open to get the test done, and collect the results from the pharmacy after another 3-4 days, then make another appointment at the doctor if necessary. So we are talking 10-16 days (including four trips to the town), which could be halved or less in England.

The French health system has a lot going for it, but efficiency and speed aren't always among its benefits.

[Tourangelle]

I can get results in a day. If I go and see my doctor in the morning, (always same day appointment), then go to the local laboratory they will have the results in the evening, when I can phone my doctor to have them explained. I guess that really is the advantage of living in a big city!

[SaligoBay]

Same as Will, it takes a few days.  Doctor, then to blood place to make appt, which is unlikely to be the same day, then the results take a day or two.  I assumed this was normal for France!

[Mistral]

It depends on what's being tested. Some results some back in the afternoon, others can take up to 3 weeks, if the labo has to send the test away. We average out on 48 hrs

I used to mak an appt at the labo but then I realised that most people just turn up and wait, so I do that now.

[Deimos]

My own (limited) experience is that things are much quicker in France. I appreciate that the service is costing far more that the country can (or is prepared) to afford, but there are some aspects that seem to both improve efficiency and provide a faster better service and do not relate to the cost of the service.

I had a scan last year and after it they asked me to wait in the waiting room whilst the receptionist typed up the report and 15 mins. later I had a folder, completed report, 2 copies (or for my doctor and one for myself). Seems to me that it takes just as long to type a report doing it whilst you wait as doing it 3 weeks later, but doing it whilst you wait means you don’t need to bother to envelope/post it, plus I get the results immediately.

Similarly, earlier this year I started flying and of course needed loads of medical tests, etc. The cardiologist tests were “thorough” (which was quite reassuring). After the 2nd batch of tests, we went into his office, he dictated a letter into his PC (using a headset), then made a few corrections (screen/keyboard) and 5 mins later I had the full report, letter photon, ECGs, etc. and that was the end of it all, everything completed for the doctor responsible for issuing the medical certificate. No wait for weeks for ….. Had he dictated into recorder, given to typist then later proof read, corrected, returned to typist, re-proof read, signed, posted, etc. it would have probably taken him longer than doing it himself.

Also seems to me that doing a scan (or blood test) takes just as long (i.e. to do the work) if you do it after 2 days or after 2 weeks – the same work is involved to why wait 2 weeks. It cannot be that there is too much work as were this the case it would be two weeks now and 3 weeks in a few months and 4 weeks after that as the backlog built-up.

Whilst having a backlog allows “peaks and troughs” to be evened-out, in practice there is enough work that the “peaks and troughs” from routine tests/scans/etc. are not a big deal.

I put it down to the British mentality and what has become acceptable in the UK.

Ian

[LesLauriers]

Phoned in the morning at 9am, appointment at 11.45am, x-ray at 2.30pm, results immediate with typed report, blood test at 3.30pm, result by fax to Doctor, prescription left in waiting room, collected and medecine issued by pharmacy at 6.50pm.

Whilst it did involve a twenty minute journey to the lab and the x-ray place in the next town, I thought it excellent.

Last x-ray I had in UK took 2 weeks to arrange then 3 weeks for the report to be typed, at about 26€ full price, a super service and superb value for money in France.

Normally we get appointments within 24 hours and non urgent house calls are 24 to 48 hours. Like the UK I guess it all depends on where you live.

Interesting point about secretarial services, in recent visits to a skin specialist and a heart specialist both typed the report themselves on the spot.

[Deimos]

It is interesting and difficult to make comparisons between UK and France as for many (incl myself) it is down to individual experience and some experiences will be good, others bad.

Several years ago whilst in the UK I had a lump where one should not have been. Visited my GP a.s.a.p. (cannot remember how long I had to wait but not excessive). GP said go for a scan so I took his paperwork and booked the scan. By the time I actually had the scan I knew I did not have what was possible as I would have been dead had it been that (it was so long between seeing GP and the scan).

In France takes about a week so see my local GP. However, had another lump a year ago and said it was urgent and saw him within the hour. Course of drugs had no effect so called back and saw him same day. Could have had the scan that day but did not push it and it was next working day, etc.

A couple of thing impressed me (other than the fast service). I was impressed how informal it was. Talking to the GP receptionist when she asked “was it urgent” and I said “don’t know – might be”, she was really trying to help. Nothing “official, just trying to do their best for you.

For my flight medical cardiology, when I went for the medical (on a Saturday) without the cardiology, the doctor asked who my cardiologist was (!!!) and when I said I didn’t have one, he recommended one, and wrote a letter of reference telling me to contact this guy on Monday. Then, at home on Monday at 8:45 my doctor telephoned me as he had called the cardiologist, and said what day I could be seen (and I just had to arrange a time). It was really trying to help and it was not a secretary nor receptionist that had done this but the doctor himself.

I don’t know how much of this is because my French is really poor (though I NEVER speak English nor ask “do you speak English”).

Ian

[RayB]

[quote]It is interesting and difficult to make comparisons between UK and France as for many (incl myself) it is down to individual experience and some experiences will be good, others bad.Several years ago ...[/quote]

** I NEVER speak English nor ask “do you speak English”).**

Same here. On first contact I usually apologize for my poor French and continue in French.

[Agenais]

I cannot fault our local health care, having suffered cardiac problems from the age of 32, the health care, since moving to France three years ago, has been second to none.  Regular appointments with my GP, all of which last well over 30 minutes, at times to suit, who carries out a comprehensive medical check up at every visit and ecg tests on the spot as needed,  check ups with the cardiologist of choice, again, at times to suit and with no delay, blood tests done, reults in the post within two days, 100% cover for all cardiac problems and treatment, (reciprocal from the UK for life).  As a retired nurse, I sort of know how laboured and frustrating things were in the UK, both as a care provider and a patient,  ie waiting 6 months for a second angioplasty (and that  was on the urgent list).  Fortunately I have not needed another such intervention, but I would imagine it would be done within a very short time if needs be.  This standard and speed of service seems to be the norm when speaking to friends both French and English, certainly in our department.  I find that the local pharmacies are excellent too, efficient, polite and supportive.  The forest of paperwork asside, the health care system must be one of the best in Europe.

[Poppy]

Where do you live Agenais, or does the name give it away?

Think I will move to where you are. Our Doctors visits last about 3 mins if that. This is the second doctor we have tried. The first got that many phone calls during consultation that he completely lost track of our ailment.

Agree with you about pharmacies.

Jan

Lost in the Lot

[Agenais]

HI Jan, I live in the south of the Lot et Garonne and use a GP, just over the border,  in the Lot.........would highly recommend.

[0zeb100ddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue]

Hi

Does this mean that France is the hypochondriac's dream country?

[Iceni]

UK - elderly Aunt needs physio (she is over 80) but this could not be arranged on the NHS because of waiting lists and she needed it quite urgently - she paid £85 for the first hour, half of which was spent on taking notes and managed another 2 half hour sessions before she ran out of money - she has had no NHS treatment for the ailment and still waits.

France - John has similar ailment and saw physio next day and is coming to the end of a 10 session course. The fee is much much less.

I had Trigeminal Neuralgia which was not diagnosed for 30 years in the UK but took them about 2 weeks with dentist and doctor working together to sort it out - and 2 days to finally be pain free after 30 years.

I was chatting to an ex UK nurse on Friday and she said that in the many years she was a nurse it went from bad to worse to terrible. Nurses are now above nursing - they are all graduates - they don't teach personal care or it seems to her hygiene on these courses. Nurses used to clean the wards and Matron would give them hell if they were not spotless. When John was in hospital I went in one day and each man had a little line of paper mache 'bottles' which the urine was gently soaking through by their beds. The Aux, was not about and the nurses were not interested. The man in the side ward opposite John had MRSA and the only thing we ever saw the sink used for was washing the plastic cups that they were give to drink from - I kicked up a fuss about the 'bottles' and they were moved but the urine on the floor was left, not the dark ages, just shortly before we came out.

You get what you pay for and the French had better look to their pockets or they will get the sort of dirty nasty service that has been my unfortunate often experience of the UK system.

John and I were refused our medical notes - I don't have to wonder very much why - the two written statements that stand out are - John will never walk again or walk properly again, and for me 'You don't have cancer' - he was so sure he had not opened the report (that was one month after the biopsy). Luckily my Consultant is now 'early retired' ie he gets paid but was not deemed suitable to actually work with patients - at the time of my problem he was not allowed to do major operations as he had killed a patient - mind, mere patients are not up to being told these things are they.

Our local hospital does not have a very fast appointment system but the whole thing seems to work.

[Agenais]

"I was chatting to an ex UK nurse on Friday and she said that in the many years she was a nurse it went from bad to worse to terrible. Nurses are now above nursing - they are all graduates - they don't teach personal care or it seems to her hygiene on these courses. Nurses used to clean the wards and Matron would give them hell if they were not spotless. When John was in hospital I went in one day and each man had a little line of paper mache 'bottles' which the urine was gently soaking through by their beds. The Aux, was not about and the nurses were not interested. The man in the side ward opposite John had MRSA and the only thing we ever saw the sink used for was washing the plastic cups that they were give to drink from - I kicked up a fuss about the 'bottles' and they were moved but the urine on the floor was left, not the dark ages, just shortly before we came out."

Di, I can totally agree with all of the above.  I retired from nursing, through ill health after 24 years in the NHS.  Sadly, degrees do not always make a nurse and it is high time that they brought back the old training system.  What Sister said was law, the wards were spotless, we scrubbed and cleaned until our hands were raw, but sickness and diarrhoea and MRSA were unheard of and patient care and care of relatives was second to none.  Our morning job as first year nurses was to put the porridge and eggs on for breakfast !  Gosh I feel like I trained with Florence herself  I left nursing just as I was starting some degree modules to keep in line with PREP.  Not a bad idea at all, to keep updated and learn new skills but it has gone a bit too far.  Learning theory is one thing, but there is nothing like hands on experience.  You cannot learn intuition and common sense from any book.  By the time the students eventually appeared onto the wards, the majority didn't have a clue what a patient was, let alone how to treat a live human being who was ill. "they want the toilet, they want a wash, what do I do"??  Oh dear, now your real traning starts!  There are always exceptions and some were great, naturally caring with some common sense.  I have not had hands on experience of a French hospital ward, but, if I do, I will certainly be keeping a close eye.   Ok, I am off the soap box now..............I bet the NHS is breathing a sigh of relief since I left its hallowed wards

[JS14]

How quickly you can see a GP depends on where you live. Some areas (notably Paris and the Côte d'Azur)have too many GPs competing for too few patients. Hence some Parisian doctors are suspected of encouraging their elderly patients to come in for regular, monthly "consultations" regardless of whether they are really ill or not. On the other hand rural areas can't attract enough GPs; retiring rural GPs often can't sell their "clientele" to a young doctor.

I must say I like the French system of medical laboratories. In my town there seem to be nearly as many laboratories as pharmacies, at least in the town centre. French doctors seem to send you for blood tests just to make sure that your symptoms don't indicate something much worse than flu or whatever you really have. If you have ever met a doctor who owns a laboratory, you will realise it's a very profitable sector to be in!