Re: Latest Health care Entitlement discussion

[Danny]

[quote user="malheureusement"]

Why doesn't someone set up a website in France and employ all the ex-pats living in France who cannot get private medical insurance?

Say the website employs them part time but enough hours to get into the French system and so qualify for health cover.

They are paid by the website to sit at home and write articles which are posted on the site but others must pay to read them.

However much they are going to be paid in salary each month they must spend on paying to read other articles before pay day.

The website is non profit making.

Any tax costs etc on a part time job must be cheaper than paying private medical insurance?

[/quote]

As Cat wrote earlier in this thread -

"baby, this is a serious discussion"

Please

Danny

[Ron Avery]

 From the Learming and Skills Council  Economically inactive means

.......and that is the whole point, BJ, it matters not what anybody other than the French Government Minister who drafted this legislation means as inactif, not the UK DWP, NHS or anybody else.  Whether this turns out to be an issue or not we don't know, but if I was a French Minister I would be making a biig distinction between people like Benjamin who generate revenue here from abroad and pay their dues and those who earn and pay nothing and claim all that is available to them from the French state.  As I keep asking, who is this legislation aimed at?  The Eropeans who move to France to retire and by doing so generate employment in their chosen areas or future immigrants from the EU and the ex French colonies, I think the latter, because the cost of implementation of this legislation against the supposed gains from taking say 5,000 contributing members people out of the CMU must be minimal.

[cooperlola]

Ron, I agree (sadly! - but we must be realistic).  However, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the suggestion that the long-term and chronic sick may get concessions.  I can see this as a bureaucratic nightmare for the local CPAMs and it will mean ejecting those who actually contributed more than they take out, but including those who cost the state more.  I'm sure that's why this is taking so long to be confirmed.  If these people are asked to pay privately for other conditions and healthcare - not arising from those conditions - but are able to get support from the state for costs which do arise - then they are going to be a greater burden.  If they are asked to pay both CMU contributions, and get full private insurance for other things, then it is equally discriminatory.  I can imagine some very complicated debates are taking place at the moment.

[grumpy]

All,

I totally agree with the above sentiments, but will go further. We have a saying where I was raised in the north of England in that " we will not stay where we are not wanted". As above I also contribute substantial amounts of money to the CPAM, Impot and Social Tax.. I am sorry, but if I cannot have the medical cover I will not be paying the Impot and Social Tax.

As an "inactive" I have spent some E400K euros since arriving in france 3,5 years ago. This has included two major building projects( with French artisans), many purchased goods, household expenditure and lots of social spending. I have also two other major building projects in the pipeline (now on hold).Like everbody we also have a constant stream of visitors who also spend money here. During my stay in France I was diagnosed with Cancer. I had great treatment from the French  medical systemand am now in remission.

If the changes are enforced I will vote with my feet

-Put my house on the market and leave France

-Withdraw my french investments

 

 

[:@]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="Ron Avery"]

I really do wonder if I want to continue to live in a country that makes up laws on the hoof and changes the rules at the drop of a hat.

[/quote]

Doesn't that happen in the UK then Ron ?

[/quote]

Oh please, let's worry about France and keep this discussion on track.

[/quote]

What sort of answer is that ! Classic.

I'll leave the worrying  to you Ron, I don't particularly have any major worries about France, thats why I live here now, and will continue to do so for the forseable future.

Go back to the UK, you're having a laugh.........................................

 

[Daisy May]

[quote user="Bugbear"]

I'll leave the worrying  to you Ron, I don't particularly have any major worries about France, thats why I live here now, and will continue to do so for the forseable future.

Go back to the UK, you're having a laugh.........................................

 [/quote]

If you're posting on this topic and have no worries then you're very lucky.

I think it"s been mentioned before, but even for those 'fit' enough to obtain private health cover at a reasonable price and without pre-existing conditions, should they develop a long-term or chronic illness, the insurance will not cover them beyond initial diagnosis and treatment. Ongoing treatment and drugs will not be covered, putting them (as far as I can see) in exactly the same position as those with existing conditions at the time of taking out the insurance. I don't think that ANYONE, unless they're 'fortunate' enough (i.e. old enough or ill enough) to have E121 cover, can look upon this situation as anything but worrying.

For those who are forced back to the UK, it will be anything but a laugh.

[sandy]

hi all

I am totally confused by all this [blink] 

We are mving over to france in nov, i have got 2 young childeren ( 11 and 12 ) and my daughter-in-law who is pregnant!

What sort of cover will we need? how much is it going to cost? does it cover all medical issues?

Is it going to be like america where you only get treated if your medical insurance covers the cost?

Sandy 

[caramac]

[quote user="sandy"]

hi all

I am totally confused by all this [blink] 

We are mving over to france in nov, i have got 2 young childeren ( 11 and 12 ) and my daughter-in-law who is pregnant!

What sort of cover will we need? how much is it going to cost? does it cover all medical issues?

Is it going to be like america where you only get treated if your medical insurance covers the cost?

Sandy 

[/quote]

Sandy,  please don't be offended but I have to comment, having been worrying about this post for the last hour or so...  

Firstly, you are not alone in being totally confused - no-one is going to be able to answer your questions fully - we just don't know yet, unless you are covered by an "E" number or working (see numerous other threads)

Secondly,  it does appear from your post in the SouthWest forum that you have really no idea about what to expect in France, quote:

 "What sort of clothes can i get over there ( silly question i know ). Do i need to bring complete wardrobes for all of us, i'v got 2 young childeren."

It really is very difficult to advise you - do you/OH/son have a job waiting?  Any of you speak French?   I am really concerned about your pregnant daughter-in-law who could find herself frightened and bewildered in an "alien" environment - possibly even with no health cover - it does not bear thinking about...

Look, I am a relative "newbie" here and I'm sure some of the vastly experienced longer-standings forum contributors will be along to advise you - in the meantime I would urge you to spend several hours ploughing through the many, many informative and invaluable threads in this forum - Health, Education, Legal etc etc etc.

It may just be that with a little more information, you might even decide it may be better to postpone your move, at least until the Health cover question has been resolved,  and particularly until your daughter-in-law has delivered safely under the NHS.

Sorry - it just had to be said....

[Panda]

 

Presumably you have applied for your E106's for you and your daughter-in-law?  If you are eligible for the E106 you will  get health cover 'free' for the first 2 years.  Again, presumably you have means of supporting yourselves, if so and this is by working then you will have no problem as you will be paying 'cotisations' (equiv of NI) and this will give you health cover.  If however you are hoping to be 'inactive' then here is where the problem starts, if you were expecting to live off interest from savings etc. then you can no longer join the French health care system and have to take private insurance.

The main point being you can not come to live in France if you do not have means to support yourself (and all dependents) such that you become a burden on the government, this includes health care provision.

So we need more info about your situation to truly answer the question.

 

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Panda "]

 

Presumably you have applied for your E106's for you and your daughter-in-law?  If you are eligible for the E106 you will  get health cover 'free' for the first 2 years. 

[/quote]

Whilst we're stilling waiting for those vital facts from Sandy, your comment about "free" cover for the first two years isn't strictly true Panda.

The family are still going to need top up medical cover to recover the amount that the French health care system doesn't reimburse.

[Chezstevens]

Not everybody gets a full 2 years of E106 either.  It is not an automatic right but earnt.

[Panda]

Hello

You're both right of course, apologies, over simplified things as I still can't get over the post in the first place, really want to know more about Sandy's situation.  Surely she wouldn't just be coming here kids and pregnant DIL in tow with no real understanding of what she faces............................................................ would she??

Panda

 

[cooperlola]

Sandy, I support what everybody says above.  Really, nobody can advise you at all without a lot more info' - many factors are involved.  If you are not working, and more than 2 years away from UK state retirement age then, yes, you will need full private health insurance at some stage.  In all other circumstances then there are ways to get state healthcare, but they vary according to your circumstances and as said above, all will involve some top-up cover for the whole family.  Nobody gets 100%, unless they are on a very low income.

And I also heartily agree about your DIL - I hope she speaks confident French (or at least one of her close family does) or it could be a daunting prospect for her.

[Panda]

And to add to the previous post I've searched a few of the educational posts and see that the Pyrenees (where Sandy has stated she is renting) is the amongst the worst areas for issues with older kids who cannot speak the language and the lack of any help or even cases where they have been refused entry into school, it gets worse!

[sandy]

Panda... i am not totally stupid..... we do not intend to come over and start taking money from the state, we are quite capable of suporting ourselves until we get our buisness up and running. I have already checked about the local schools in the area which we are renting in, there are hospitals in the area and they do have english speakers.

I am an registered nurse so my daughter-in-law will have all the support she needs at home.

I was only asking for advice which is what i thort this site was for.

Most of the questions i here asked on here...like clothing and electrical goods where light hearted questions which wouldn't matter what the answers where. This question seemed quiet  reasonable, it was  straight forward and as far as i knew would not get the response you gave!

I'm sure as a "newbie" yourself you can remember what it felt like to be about to move to a different country,maybe you where lucky and didnt worry about the move but i am and comments like yours don't help.

sandy 

[caramac]

Oh well,   I tried.....  [Www]


("Newbie" not Panda)

[Ron Avery]

"What sort of answer is that ! Classic".

The answer your off topic post deserved.

I never mentioned going back to the UK and unlike you I really don't care a toss what goes on there. If you have no worries well good for you, you must have an E form, I haven't and nor have a lot of people who would prefer that this topic was about news on healthcare provision and not what you read in the Daily Mail.

[Cat]

I've moved some posts over to this discussion thread.  They were previously in the "Breaking news" thread. 

[cooperlola]

duplicate post deleted

[cooperlola]

Sandy, much easier now we know you're going to run a business.

Apply to the DWP centre for non-residents for E106's.  Depending upon your NI contributions records, these will last around 2 years.  During that time, you will need top-up insurance to cover the costs not re-imbursed under the French system (what you get back is variable, around 70%).

Once your business is up and running, then you will be liable to pay "cotisations" (social security, health, pension and other contributions) into the French system, which will give you access to the same healthcare as you will get via your E106's, so your top-up insurance will need to continue as before.  So you should not be affected by the new rules - they affect "inactifs" only.

Hope that answers your question.

[Panda]

[quote user="Panda "]

 

Presumably you have applied for your E106's for you and your daughter-in-law?  If you are eligible for the E106 you will  get health cover 'free' for the first 2 years.  Again, presumably you have means of supporting yourselves, if so and this is by working then you will have no problem as you will be paying 'cotisations' (equiv of NI) and this will give you health cover.  If however you are hoping to be 'inactive' then here is where the problem starts, if you were expecting to live off interest from savings etc. then you can no longer join the French health care system and have to take private insurance.

The main point being you can not come to live in France if you do not have means to support yourself (and all dependents) such that you become a burden on the government, this includes health care provision.

So we need more info about your situation to truly answer the question.

[/quote]

Sorry Sandy what part of this made you take such offence?

[quote user="sandy"]

Panda... i am not totally stupid..... we do not intend to come over and start taking money from the state, we are quite capable of suporting ourselves until we get our buisness up and running. I have

I'm sure as a "newbie" yourself you can remember what it felt like to be about to move to a different country,maybe you where lucky and didnt worry about the move but i am and comments like yours don't help.

sandy 

[/quote]

When did I suggest you were going to take money off of the state, I merely stated the fact that entry to France has recently changed (back) and now you are required to be able to to demonstrate you have income to support your family.  The line 'the point being' means you as in anyone not YOU personally perhaps I should have written 'one cannot'.

Geeez

EDIT

Actually having just reread 'everything' I wrote I can see that I was being a bit presumptive, particulary the post after the above which 'almost' said 'no one is that stupid , are they?', so yes apologies are due Sandy.  I'm very glad you are prepared for the move and wish you the very best of luck with it.  So what is your business, is it ski-ing related?

[Chris]

My wife submitted her E121 recently.  In order only to confirm that parts of the CMU 'system' continues unchanged, I let you know that I have received this morning a letter from Angouleme CPAM stating that I am 'ayant droit' from my wife's entitlement,  and that my "..cotisation cesse d'être due:30.9.07".  My wife, it states "elle même retraitée de la caisse anglaise au 1.11.07

Interestingly the letter is headed: "AVIS DE RADIATION DE LA CMU DE BASE SOUS CRITERE DE RESIDENCE.  ie 'residence' is still in there as a factor.  We have been here 7 years contributing and paying all taxes.  If it counts for us and E121etc , it might be there for others in different situations.

Conscious of much worry and discussion but few hard facts and real information, I post this little snippet as hard fact which might or might not be helpful to others and the quest for justice.  I realise that our situation may not be representative of many others, but as CPAMs seem to have wide discretionary powers, our example may help someone.

Chris

[Poppy]

 Just wondered [blink] under the new rules if someone is denied access to French Health System based on only receiving unearned income then can the authorities legally deduct CSG & CRDS from that income?

[Will]

Yes they can, and will. They are payments associated with the national debt rather than provision of health services.

[Poppy]

Thanks Will, I understand that CSG & CRDS are not directly related to health but what proportion of the national debt is the health service. Perhaps a long shot but one for the European Court. Am I correct in thinking that these charges aren't payable if you have an E121 if so shouldn't the same criteria apply if you have private health insurance [I]