Rob Roy Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Rich1972 wrote:"I'm completely in support of the 'free at the point of use' ideology" .........."As I said in my first post, I was planning on having a year off to fix my house up before working (I haven't got two-years NI contributions as I've been studying and have only worked for the last 12 months so I'll have to get full cover) but no problems are insurmountable!"You also stated in the other post that you are now 36 - never mind non-British EU residents, what about a few years contributions from yourself?[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote user="Rich1972"]I can't help but think that this move is specifically designed to target British ex-patriots though. [/quote] One of the more amusing and telling typos I've seen on here in the recent past.................................[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yes, I agree with Gay, you can see problems with any system if you really want to.And that for me is the whole issue. The same rules should apply to everybody throughout each member state of the European Union. Whilst I do not necessarily agree with the original post of this thread, I can understand why it has been said.But I guess if absolutely exact rules applied to everything and every country in Europe, it would mean the end of the Pound with the UK joining the Eurozone - now that's a good idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 That's rather what I said in my posting on page 2"what should happen is that the whole of Europe adopt a similar system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Exactly Norman. I am endorsing what you said. Sorry, I should have made a reference to that as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscar Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote user="Rob Roy"] Rich1972 wrote:"I'm completely in support of the 'free at the point of use' ideology" .........."As I said in my first post, I was planning on having a year off to fix my house up before working (I haven't got two-years NI contributions as I've been studying and have only worked for the last 12 months so I'll have to get full cover) but no problems are insurmountable!"You also stated in the other post that you are now 36 - never mind non-British EU residents, what about a few years contributions from yourself?[Www][/quote]Spot on Rob Roy!!!! So Rich has been benefitting from years of study in the UK and now wants to leave and go and live in another country without putting anything back into the British system. Perhaps you should have paid for your own education Rich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote user="Tressy"]Oooh and while we're at it, why not exclude the children of the unemployed from education. I can't see either proposal working out too well.[/quote]No point doing that - most exclude themselves!! PS I agree with Richard re his healthcare proposals - in fact I would wholly support a move to an insurance based system for the UK.As an aside I have paid for my own education from the age of 16, I have worked full-time and at age 46 have completed 30 years fulltime employment (and so made 30 years of NI contributions) and, despite having a chronic health condition and three children, I have never claimed benefits and have paid privately (hence twice!) for most of my healthcare needs.If there was a greater correlation between use of the system and cost people (i.e. UK citizens) would maybe think twice before they abused the facilities. Viz - not go to GP for common cough / cold, not turn up at A&E with minor injuries, use their local pharmacist more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote user="woolybananasbrother"]Early retired French pensioners continue to pay full social charges I think (am I right here?) ,whereas early retired expat pensioners paid a flat rate of 8%. I understand that the French government wanted them to pay the same as the French but it all fell apart so hence the new dispensations.[/quote]Exactly WB - not suprising the average french retiree is p****d off with the rich ex-pats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote user="Scooby"][quote user="woolybananasbrother"]Early retired French pensioners continue to pay full social charges I think (am I right here?) ,whereas early retired expat pensioners paid a flat rate of 8%. I understand that the French government wanted them to pay the same as the French but it all fell apart so hence the new dispensations.[/quote]Exactly WB - not suprising the average french retiree is p****d off with the rich ex-pats![/quote] Exactly what? Nobody in FHI has the slightest idea what WBB is talking about, but no change there then[6]So how would you know what the average French retiree thinks Scooby living in the Peak District of England? I bet the French are not as pissed off about so called rich ex pats as the Tykes are in Leeds at queue jumpers who use their wealth to get hospital treatment pushing aside more deserving cases who cannot afford or who are too ill to qualify for BUPA. You didn't have to pay for your healthcare so don't moan about, it was your choice. Just be grateful you live in a country where some politicians didn't put self interest first and actually cared about others who could not afford to go to hospital or even to a Doctor or dentist and provided a healthcare system available to all, irrespective of wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 PS I agree with Richard re his healthcare proposals - in fact I would wholly support a move to an insurance based system for the UK. Ahem - What do you think National Insurance is ?Its hardly credible that a system that is envied by many other countries is getting this sort of criticism, and why, because it doesn't suit a few who have decided to move away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm not moaning - tbh I think I got much better treatment privately - and whilst I can still work, I intend to continue to do so. I just get p**'d off with the whingers who have far less health problems than I do but are too bone idle to get off their backsides and work...and use their illness as an excuse to scrounge. I also get p**'d off with those who are either hyperchondriacs or who see a visit to their weekly visit to their GP as a valid 'social outing'. (FYI my OH is a doctor and my daughter and sister are nurses - so it is 'an informed comment'). I think if more people in the UK had to cough up 30 euros for a visit to their doctor it would cut down some of the abuse of the NHS in the UK.Oh and I spend about a quarter of the year in France - and have lots of friends there so, yes, I hear their views on the wealthy Brit expats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote user="Russethouse"] PS I agree with Richard re his healthcare proposals - in fact I would wholly support a move to an insurance based system for the UK. Ahem - What do you think National Insurance is ? [/quote]Actually, RH, National Insurance isn't for the health service, but for pensions and other benefits, which is why you don't get a proper pension if you haven't paid enough contributions. [:(] The NHS is funded from general taxation. There's an interesting bit of background here:http://www.open2.net/historyandthearts/history/theservice_welfare.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Thanks Kathy, I think I had been told that before but forgot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 [quote user="KathyF"][quote user="Russethouse"] PS I agree with Richard re his healthcare proposals - in fact I would wholly support a move to an insurance based system for the UK. [/quote]Actually, RH, National Insurance isn't for the health service, but for pensions and other benefits, which is why you don't get a proper pension if you haven't paid enough contributions. [/quote]or any pension at all if you cant quote your NI number and they cant find you in the archives, even though you know you have paid enough - but cant prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Scooby said " I just get p**'d off with the whingers who have far less health problems than I do but are too bone idle to get off their backsides and work...and use their illness as an excuse to scrounge"With you 110% there Scooby, nobody on here has mentioned the IB claimant who was a Welsh football assistant referee filmed running up and down the line at a match, (who said you cannot fiddle the IB assessment?) and the Scottish teacher who tried to claim IB because he was bald[:-))] ( he must have been getting ready to move to France)[6] "I also get p**'d off with those who are either hyperchondriacs or who see a visit to their weekly visit to their GP as a valid 'social outing'. (FYI my OH is a doctor and my daughter and sister are nurses - so it is 'an informed comment'). I think if more people in the UK had to cough up 30 euros for a visit to their doctor it would cut down some of the abuse of the NHS in the UK".I agree and many people in the UK have suggested this but no sane politician of any party is going to put this forward as a policy as it would be jumped on by the media even the Daily Mail, as a tax on the sick and therefore political suicide. Also, it would not work unless treatment by A&Es were also strictly controlled and managed and/or charged, otherwise they would just be full up with those avoiding payment. Turning people away from A&E would also be fraught with danger, which paramedic or casualty nurse or doctor is going to turn away anybody with a headache or a sore throat?The fee by the way in France to see a GP is 22€ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Roy Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I worked in the NHS, and for years have said that if people were given an itemised account of the cost of their treatment when they left hospital (not to be paid, but for information) they would then, perhaps, appreciate how much it actually costs to treat and look after them. Perhaps it should be extended to their visits to the GP and A&E! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 The reality is that, regardless of how people are asked to fund their heathcare, whether it be from their general taxation or through a contributory insurance scheme, they are paying into the 'pot' so they can obtain treatment on demand for whatever they feel is wrong with them. The actual cost of that treatment which is paid for out of the 'pot' is immaterial to them. The only thing that matters is that they've been treated.Scooby seems to think that paying 30€ up front for a doctor's appointment is the way to go - he seems to be alluding to the French system, but he doesn't understand that French people don't have to cough up 30€ to see a doctor because that's already covered by the 'pot' they've been paying into through their carte vitale/mutuelle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Most of my French friends go to the doctor at the drop of a hat.Their attitude is that we pay for it via our contributions and our top up assurance so we need to get our money,s worth. PS I believe the figure for employed peoples contibution to health care is 0.8% of their salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscar Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="KathyF"][quote user="Russethouse"] PS I agree with Richard re his healthcare proposals - in fact I would wholly support a move to an insurance based system for the UK. [/quote]Actually, RH, National Insurance isn't for the health service, but for pensions and other benefits, which is why you don't get a proper pension if you haven't paid enough contributions. [/quote]or any pension at all if you cant quote your NI number and they cant find you in the archives, even though you know you have paid enough - but cant prove it.[/quote]With you there Powerdesal. My poor old mum has only had 12 pounds a week pension from the age of 60 to 75 because the "system" lost details of her NI contributions when she owned a pub and she was unable to "prove" that she had paid into the system, which she had, becuase the Post Office that she made her contributions at had been demolished to make a flyover so there were no records. She had since married my step-dad, 10 years younger than her, so she wasn't entitled to a full pension til he was pensionable age, although she had worked from age 14 to 64!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 My mother couldn't prove her contributions either but with the help of Paul Lewis from Moneybox and Saga eventually got her entitlement and a lump sum - her records office was bombed during the war.....Is it really the Post Office that counts, surely they forward the money with a number for it to be allotted too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 My wife cant prove her contribution history because she cannot quote her NI number. The relevent depts have been extremely helpful in carrying out a search of the NI archives and have finally stated that there is no record and that, in effect, she does not exist as far as NI records are concerned.Her employer went out of business many years ago and we cannot find such documents as P45 etc due to having lost / misplaced such personal paperwork during many house moves over the years, many moves being due to the requirements of HM Forces.They can find her parents and her brother but not her. She is presently investigating what can be done to further the search. I imagine that no pension means no E121 which causes yet further "issues". Time will tell!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 [quote user="Boiling a frog"]Most of my French friends go to the doctor at the drop of a hat.Their attitude is that we pay for it via our contributions and our top up assurance so we need to get our money's worth.[/quote]I know that with a CV and a Mutuelle it doesn't actually cost anything, except for the 1€ deduction, in the long run to see a GP, but surely doesn't everybody, excluding those on the assisted CMU, have to pay the 22€ up front to the Doctor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscar Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 [quote user="Russethouse"]My mother couldn't prove her contributions either but with the help of Paul Lewis from Moneybox and Saga eventually got her entitlement and a lump sum - her records office was bombed during the war.....Is it really the Post Office that counts, surely they forward the money with a number for it to be allotted too ?[/quote]Well the relevant government department said they had no record of her payments during that period and asked her to prove where she had paid her contributions. They were contributions made in the 60s and the post office and it's staff had long since gone - what a stupid idea that she could have proved it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 [quote user="powerdesal"]My wife cant prove her contribution history because she cannot quote her NI number. .......Her employer went out of business many years ago and we cannot find such documents as P45 etc due to having lost / misplaced such personal paperwork during many house moves over the years, ........[/quote]I can hardly believe this. No-one can work without an NI number (at least they are not supposed to be able to), and the reason given (many house moves) seems to indicate a lackadaisical approach to keeping important paperwork. I've moved many times also (jobs and houses), but not lost the important pieces of information needed. Surely these should always be carried personally and not trusted to a removal van?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Isn't it why you are given diaries for Christmas - so you can write your NHS number and NI number in the front ? [:)]Actually I certainly know my NHS number by heart and have a good idea of my NI number too (all the elements but not sure about the order)In any case I think approaching Saga may help any one still looking for a lost number - after all what is there to lose ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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