Healthcare options for young couple?

[alittlebitfrench]

PHILV

You either go home tomorrow with some savings or go home in a few months time without savings. It is your choice.

Further to Idun's point, when you want to return to France do some research first. I will give you your first pointer....don't move to the Limousin because there is sod all there, it is very poor with high unemployment. Houses are expensive in France but not in the Limousin. There is a reason for that.

Please, take note of what everyone is saying. Go back.

[NormanH]

The basic point which as already been gone through many times on these Fora is that there are 2 ways of becoming eligible for Health care in European countries.

1) The UK way, that is that residence makes you eligible

2) The French way (and most other countries too) which says that you have to contribute.

This is by deductions from earnings or by paying a % of income for people such as early retired people on a pension

For those who have gained the right to stay here but have a low income there is a basic cover called the CMU.

You have not gained the right to stay and if you don't become financially independent after 3 months not only will you not be entitled to health cover but you will be technically illegal immigrants.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

hi Philv

 

Well, you are in a bit of a pickle at the moment.

 

The good news is that you have around 7 months to get yourself in the system and your hands on a Carte Vitale before you get into the serious bills. It will be something between 2500€ and 4000€ for a birth (depending on which clinic/hospital you go to and if it's "normal").  Up until that point you will probably get by with settling your bills as you go.  I have no idea how "meagre" your savings are, one mans meagre 100K is another mans 100k fortune, but living in France is a very easy way to end up with a small pile of money after starting with a big pile.

 

You don't mention what you intend to do as an artisan, do you have any qualifications that can be transferred directly into a French business ? I would suggest you do get a bit of a wobble on and get yourself into the system. It's easy to set yourself up as an auto-entrepreneur, a completely different thing to actually earn any money out of it. 

 

Once you have a Carte Vitale you will be able to get yourself a mutuelle, I don't have the information in front of me but it would be wise to see what the state picks up i.e. 100%, during a pregnancy. If everything is covered, including emergency health care, then a mutuelle would probably not be necessary.  Family allowance (CAF) is not an issue, you get nothing for your 1st born.

 

BTW In answer to your question about kids leaving school after paying nothing into the system. They would have been on their parents Carte Vitale before that. My kids automatically received a CV when they got to 16, however, they were already on the wife's card, and we have been here for 10 years..

 

As has been mentioned, getting yourself into the system is your top priority. Be aware that the Limousin is one of the poorest areas in France. Unemployment in France has been fairly static the last few months (although still the highest it has been for the last 19yrs), U25 employment is fairly static as well at around 25%.  Unfortunately, in the current position I have, I get to know a bit more about the economic woes of the various EU countries, basically, France is an economic basket case, much more heavily in debt than people realise (including the French!) and it will get worse before it picks up.

 

One thing, this is a Forum. Many people with many different views and experiences are on here and will offer advice if you've asked for it. Don't bite them if the advice they offer is not what you want to hear. Take it or leave it but don't throw it back in their faces.

 

Still, chin up, I admire the bravery of the young, it should be applauded.

 

[Pommier]

In your position I'd go back to the UK until I'd got work and health care organised, but if you are determined to give it a go here, try your best to get a job. I know someone in their mid 50's with minimal French who has got a job in a fish processing factory on minimum wage - that's the type of job you might be able to get and then you would have both an income and health cover. Places such as abbatoirs are often looking for employees so although not a nice job, it's a way of staying in France.

[NickP]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]NickP - a European healthcard issued by the UK is valid for people who are covered by the NHS.

If the OPs were here on holiday they could use their EHIC, although not to give birth. But if, as they are saying, they no longer live in the UK, then their EHICs are no longer valid.[/quote]

I'm well aware of that, but as they have just arrived and are renting like lots of people do before they settle, they may well be still under the UK health system. Apart from that I was just commenting on Renal Kens comment that "you have to pay" [:D]

[idun]

NickP, fair point and I really had thought about that before I posted.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Documents/ehic-app-form.pdf

And that link 4) says that if you leave the UK to live in another UK country then the EHIC has to be sent back, so this couple is not covered as they have moved, according to them.

There is a lot of info on the NHS site. There is plenty on the french sites, including the service.public site. Is there an excuse, I know people these days who put in more research to go on holiday to be honest.

Remember I moved to France without french, knowing nothing of France and it was very hard to get any information back then. What I knew was that we could not move anywhere without proper employment.   For a single person, well that can be quite different, only oneself to think about........but as a couple I was not that courageous or as I would have personally considered it, negligent or stupid. Not that I haven't done things in my life that have been both the latter, I have.

[Chancer]

Still, chin up, I admire the bravery of the young, it should be applauded.

 

Absolutely, if I had the wisdom or negativity (dependant on your standpoint) of an old fart when I was younger I would never have done or became anything in life, if people hadn't taken risks, failed, learned from them and taken another risk we would have very few of the benefits in society that allow people the comfort to tell others to go back home.

 

I dont see anything foolhardy in a young couple taking a punt in a country thats only seperated by a small bit of water, OK an impending child adds focus to the situation but these things happen, I would have more respect for someone be they English or Syrian that came here with little or nothing and tried to make a go of it than someone that remained in their own country happy for the state to support them and their progeny.

 

This young couple wont have the same problems crossing the channel if things dont work out so why discourage them from trying?

 

In the OP shoes I would make equal efforts into trying to find work on the Smic and setting up a part time business, at least these days with Auto-entrepeneur they wont be committing a crime against the state if they do both side by side until its clear which will be the better for the long term.

[alittlebitfrench]

Nick P

You are such a card.

By the way, someone is looking for you. You been pretending to be a builder again. LOL

[idun]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="EuroTrash"]NickP - a European healthcard issued by the UK is valid for people who are covered by the NHS.

If the OPs were here on holiday they could use their EHIC, although not to give birth. But if, as they are saying, they no longer live in the UK, then their EHICs are no longer valid.[/quote]

I'm well aware of that, but as they have just arrived and are renting like lots of people do before they settle, they may well be still under the UK health system. Apart from that I was just commenting on Renal Kens comment that "you have to pay" [:D]

[/quote]

Depends on the age. Early retirees have no rights to an S1 anymore and as the previous link I posted showed, should have handed in their EHIC cards and got private insurance. I suppose people could say that for 3 months they were on an extended holiday, but that is it, after that it's all down to them.

Pensioners, and it is different, as they have S1's the old E121 and the right to a UK EHIC card.

[EuroTrash]

Totally agree with taking a punt. But doing it exactly when you've just got pregnant and need a bit of security seems an odd time to choose, and launching into the unknown and then sounding off because the system doesn't work like it did in the UK seems an odd way to approach it.

Get a job and it will all fall into place.

[alittlebitfrench]

I don't agree with taking a punt.

There are more French living in the UK than British in France. I dare say that most French living in the UK have a job and a relatively good standard of living. That is why they moved there.

[mint]

I am always amazed at new posters that come here, ask for advice, don't like what they hear, take umbrage, shoot the messenger and learn NOTHING as they are not prepared to keep an open mind.

I am also amazed at all those on here that kindly take the time and trouble to "tell it like it is" and get nothing but a mouthful in compensation.

Yes, I am amazed but also a bit amused.  We have all been young and done foolish things but

I do believe that we might have been ignorant, lippy, arrogant, etc but we retained a sense of responsibility and sucked up the consequences of our own actions.

Now I am not accusing the OP of any of those things as I don't know anything much about him.  But I do think that, comparatively speaking, the UK is such a cushy number, a nanny state, soft and the standard of living is so ridiculously high (on the whole) that we now have a generation of pampered young people that expect everything to land on their lap.

And, yes, I am generalising and no, I am not pointing a finger at the OP.  You only have to hear what those holiday makers are saying in Sharm el sheik about being unable to keep their hotel rooms (though they have been moved to temporary accommodation), that the government isn't doing enough for them, that the tour operators are not fulfilling their requests and so on and so forth.  You think they should be grateful?  Not a bit of it!

And to have 20 thousand Brits there on holiday (and that's only counting ONE holiday destination) 4 or 5 hours away, it IS true that "we have never had it so good".  Spoken by one who have been around different countries and worked at different jobs and have had my fair share of "hard times".

[lindal1000]

However I can remember reading all these forums before I arrived and felt quite sick with worry! I didn't comment here until after I'd moved. I am actually very glad that I didn't listen to all the more negative comments. Had I done so I would have missed out on the five good years we have had..and yes we have had to rethink some things, to adapt some of our plans, be a bit inventive, not always do everything totally by the book and it has not been quite as we imagined..but at the moment you would have to drag me back kicking and screaming. The beauty of being younger is that if it all goes Pete Tong you can put it down to experience and start again..so I wish them luck.

[mint]

Well, Lindal, you have been a lot smarter than I ever was.  Didn't find forums, not being very internet savvy, but I did read and ask people and noted all comments, good or bad.

Best of all, I had a Plan B, an Exit Strategy, so it's worked out just fine so far[:D]

[NickP]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Nick P

You are such a card.

By the way, someone is looking for you. You been pretending to be a builder again. LOL[/quote]

Yep, I saw that and have been watching it with amusement. Builder? not me although I do have carpentry skills which were allied to my past employment (not building). Also my name isn't Pearce, plus  I don't have time to work these days, much too busy having a good time and enjoying retirement, by getting the best out of France and the UK.

 Incidentally Idun, you can be in France for more than three months legally. I believe one day under six months is the cut off point;  allegedly, but I bet no one has yet been deported. If you don't work and you don't try to claim of the state there is no problem, you just use your European health card should you need medical assistance.  Mind you at mine and my wife's age pregnancy is never going to be a problem.[:D]

 

[idun]

But NickP, when people leave the UK to move somewhere else (no S form entitlement), they are supposed to hand in their EHIC after three months, which I do believe that they can get away with, never mind using it, they should not have the bloody thing anymore, they have given up their right, and they have agreed to these terms when they get the thing in the first place.

And the french want people to be self sufficient or working within three months. That is what the link says and I think that that should be held up and people chucked out. We could do with the same rules in the UK!

And mince.......... people chose to move remember, are not forced.

Lindal, this board was full of pink rosey posts in the past, and then a good thing happened, this board 'grew' into realistic posts eventually, and of that I am glad. That they appeared 'negative', well, if they didn't fit the idea of France prior to moving, then so what. France is a country and I had some very very good times there and some hellish times too, because we lived a life there, and that is what life can throw at a person. 

And leaving, well, nowhere is perfect and I am not a person who lives with any illusions about anywhere. There is absolutely nothing wrong with living in the UK these days, and there is certainly more for us to do in the UK than there was in rural France and actually life is cheaper here for us and our social lives are far better.

[EuroTrash]

I think NickP is confusing visitors with would-be residents.

A visitor is a person who has a permanent home in another state and is in France as a visitor. That person is no bother to France because their own state is responsible for them, they are not going to become a liability.

A person who no longer has a permanent home in another state is a different kettle of fish because they are likely to make demands on France since they have no other state looking after them (healthcare etc) so it has to be made clear what the conditions are. That's the social contract, droits et devoirs, if you want the state to support you, you have to show good faith and support the state; if you don't support the state, the state won't support you.

[lindal1000]

I've got no problem with people describing their experiences, positive and negative, to help people make decisions, especially if it's done in a non judgemental way. As a reader of these posts on this and other forums, which I was for many months before commenting..I learned to take all the responses with a pinch of salt.

The opinions I read about on various forums suggested that 1 We would never be able to get healthcare and our only option was private healthcare, 2 That you shouldn't come to France if you had a long term health problem and weren't retired. 3 That you need an income of at least 20000€ pa to survive, 4 That France was more expensive than the UK 5 That my professional qualifications were no use in France, 6 That there was no work, 7 That France was dull and boring and that we would almost certainly have to go back to UK after year as we would hate it.

Now had I taken these statements at face value, stayed in the UK and not looked into the reality for myself then I would really have lost out as not one of those statements has been true for us, although I don't doubt they were a true reflection of the experiences of the writers.

On a positive, other people's experiences of dealing with the system, trying to get to grip with and keep up with (or one step a head of) the continually changing system etc. Are an invaluable aid to living here. We moved here when we were the wrong side of 50 so had it all gone Pete Tong for us it could have been disastrous..so we had a plan A, B, and C, and even our A plan is continually evolving to keep pace with the ever changing world around us and our needs and wants. However when I was 25 I did pretty much what the OP did and went to Canada. I arrived in Canada with one suitcase and about £2000. I didn't care if it all went wrong because starting again is a lot easier.

The other thing you need to bear in mind is that in reality, although there are rules and regulations, the system is France is so complicated that even French officials don't understand it, so in practice it is operated in a very pragmatic way, often leading to much regional variation. (Although this is changing as things become more centralized). Once you are in the system and ticking along really no one gives a stuff what you do..or even if you have just found a system that works for you. The people that don't read forums are happily going along using the UK issued EHIC and popping back to UK for anything serious. No one has been 'sent back' because as long as they aren't bothering anyone, paying rent and local taxes, it is regarded as positive.

I did used to think France expensive for a lot of things but with the exchange rate now of 1.40 you have to look long and hard at everything.

[EuroTrash]

That is very true and especially the bit about things changing - on both sides of the Channel, and also about having plans A to Z if possible. You need to know the rules so you know where the baseline is andif you can get a better deal for yourself, so much the better, but you need to be prepared in case one day you turn up and they say Non, or No, depending who 'they' are.

I am all in favour of going and trying your luck when you have no responsibilities other than yourself but for me the problem with the OP is the fact that in less than a year there will be a new baby to think about.

[idun]

Most of my experiences are with my french friends and even in the area I used to live, which has not got a high unemployment problem, then it is still hard to get work.

My son's girlfriend has recently found employment after two years, TWO years, she is french, experienced at what she does and under 40 and yet it took all that time. And my did she try.

And she is not the only one. My son has several friends who have had problems finding work.

Saying that jobs are hard to find, is a fact, not something made up to put off les anglais. And some of the people who post and ask questions do not even speak french, so why would a french company especially take on someone who would take even longer to train because they couldn't understand??? Especially as their own compatriots need work???

And re the over 40 thing, well, I have too many examples of people I know, french, who, for one reason or another ended up au chomage in their early 40's and literally took years to find employment. All did in the end, one bloke, buying himself into a company.

And qualifications are not always accepted in France. ie Teaching is a good example, because of  the way they qualify teachers , is not the same as in the UK. It is a sort of civil service exam in the end, which is quite different. It isn't as if I do not know qualified british teachers who have taught in France, I do, but  in international schools, rather than main stream education nationale. I used to know a welsh girl, a teacher, married to a french man, and she could not get a teaching job in our local college teaching english. It is just like that.

Ofcourse many qualifications are accepted, ofcourse they are, but still, not all are..... as ever, research is needed.

And as you said Lindal, the trick is having a job and working, because once one is especially with a proper company then so much falls in to place. Health care, mutuelle, and sorting taxes of all sorts, is not that hard when in a proper job. And one may have some teething problems with starting all this, but the truth is that it is all relatively smooth after that.

And do not forget that in the last five years, they have stopped that initial health care cover from the UK, the old E106, which means that once one leaves the UK, to move permanently somewhere else, one really is on one's own, with all the responsibilities that entails.

[NickP]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]I think NickP is confusing visitors with would-be residents. [/quote]

No

I'm not, I'm well aware of what the difference is, I'm just putting the

case for reality. In this case the couple arrive in France and rent, they say they've sold up in the UK, and although they say they're

going to stay here, after a couple of months and reading the

negativity on this thread they may change their minds. So not a visitor

or resident, in that case they use their health card until they decide,

it aint rocket science.

[lindal1000]

As I said Idun, I don't doubt for a moment that you what you say is true but out of all the people I know , those that are not working chose not to. That said we don't live in a run down part of France. There are new enterprises going up every week and so far they are surviving.

Believe it or not I actually work as a teacher, although not in a school..and I am self employed, AE, which gives me flexibility. I'm not in a 'proper job' by choice, but I still pay my taxes, do my invoices etc and it isn't that complicated.

I'm not sure that not having an E106 makes that much difference. it does focus the mind a bit more quickly re getting into the system, but it only ever was for British citizens. People coming from Holland, Germany etc never had that luxury and they survived.

[andyh4]

NickP wrote:

No I'm not, I'm well aware of what the difference is, I'm just putting the case for reality. In this case the couple arrive in France and rent, they say they've sold up in the UK, and although they say they're going to stay here, after a couple of months and reading the negativity on this thread they may change their minds. So not a visitor or resident, in that case they use their health card until they decide, it aint rocket science.

NickP

Unquote

No it ain't rocket science. It is fraud!

I am sure I have seen posts by yourself decrying immigrants arriving in the UK and defrauding the UK tax payer, and yet here you seem to be not only unconcerned but actively encouraging someone to do what you have previously decried.

Apologies to the OP for going off topic.

[NickP]

[quote user="andyh4"]NickP wrote:

No I'm not, I'm well aware of what the difference is, I'm just putting the case for reality. In this case the couple arrive in France and rent, they say they've sold up in the UK, and although they say they're going to stay here, after a couple of months and reading the negativity on this thread they may change their minds. So not a visitor or resident, in that case they use their health card until they decide, it aint rocket science.

NickP

Unquote

No it ain't rocket science. It is fraud!

I am sure I have seen posts by yourself decrying immigrants arriving in the UK and defrauding the UK tax payer, and yet here you seem to be not only unconcerned but actively encouraging someone to do what you have previously decried.

Apologies to the OP for going off topic.[/quote]

What are you on about?  it is not fraud it's common sense something that it appears that you lack. As to what I have said in other posts' has nothing to do with this thread. I am not encouraging anybody to do anything I'm just explaining what real life is about, another thing that seems too be missing in your make up. By the way have you worked out who you can vote for yet ?[:P]

 

[Chancer]

Its only fraud to those who choose to make their own interprétations and seek to condemn others, you can be sure that if it were the case then there would have been a raft of high profile prosecutions.

 

Recently it was reported that Eastern europeans including but not limited to romanians were coming to the UK for a few days, registering with a GP to get a NIC mumber, then applying for and getting a UK EHIC sent a friend who would forward it to them, they were then using it to get 100% free hospital treatment in the private healthcare system of their country, many of the examples were pregnant mothers who racked up hospital bills of £20-30K all paid for by the NHS, nice work if you can get it.

 

Now the OP could and probably should use that option in the short term despite being condemned by people who in all probability did that themselves or would have done had they not benefitted from an S1, I cannot see the difference, in both cases the UK pay, however I would be a little nervous about using an EHIC for a birth overseas unless the OP is a "minority" where it seems its fine to do so.