The cost of seeing a GP is probably going up to 25€ in 2017

[NormanH]

http://www.lemonde.fr/sante/article/2016/07/27/l-assurance-maladie-propose-une-hausse-de-la-consultation-chez-le-generaliste-a-25-euros-en-une-fois_4975484_1651302.html

[idun]

It has been 23euros amazingly for years. From watching the news the gp's have not been happy about it being so low for years too.

[alittlebitfrench]

Still worth the money IMHO even if you do not get reimbursed.

I would rather pay 25 Euros to see a doctor within 24 hrs than wait two weeks like in the UK.

Still 26 Euros for children I suspect ????

[Gardengirl]

I think it's been €25 for about 5 years. We don't get reimbursed unless we are going to have to put in an insurance claim when back in UK, as we aren't in the French system.

At our French GP practice we often can't get an appointment the same day, whereas we often can with the GP of our choice at our English GP surgery. If not we can often get a telephone appointment that day if that is suitable for our needs, or we get an appointment the following day.

[andyh4]

Sadly it is getting harder and harder to get a short term appointment with our doctor. When we first signed up she had just arrived, but it seems that others are taking the same opinion as we do, that she is excellent. I certainly do not begrudge a further 2€ - maybe it will put off some of her French patients.

[Cendrillon]

Garden Girl it's the same for us. U. K. and France.

[NickP]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Still worth the money IMHO even if you do not get reimbursed.

I would rather pay 25 Euros to see a doctor within 24 hrs than wait two weeks like in the UK.

Still 26 Euros for children I suspect ????[/quote]fffff

More fairy stories from the Tours misinformation center.

[idun]

Definitely still 23euros.

Friends in France from my old village now have to wait over a week to see their toubib these days. If I need to see a GP, I can usually see one within a week. The thing about seeing any gp is the urgency of the appointment. I feel sure that urgent appointments are available where I used to live, and I know they are where I live now too.

[Judith]

As it happens I was at the doctor's yesterday, just after I'd seen this news.  He'd not heard (I believe it is still to be ratified), but he said they are supposed to keep to a 10min appointment slot, which is impossible, he says.  He always runs late, because he gives the time needed to address the problem, plus he has to do his own admin (he's a sole practictioner) but he is good, so no worries there, and he's popular.  I have no problem with paying more, as I said to him, prices always go up, it is better to go up little by little.

Actually, I'm amazed it hasn't gone up before this, 6 years is a long time to stay at that price, and doctors have to live too.

[alittlebitfrench]

I think I am right that doctors can charge whatever they like. If they charge 25 euros that is what you will get reimbursed. If they charge 30 euros you pay the difference....i.e 7 Euros.

I am at odds with the French system because you pay 23/25 euros (whatever it is) and more than likely be referred to a specialist/scans/radio who then charges you 60 euros or whatever for a consultation. I am very accident prone and I tend to go here there and everywhere on a monthly basis. My doctor is just a secretary and charges 23 euros for doing not awful lot accept referring me to somewhere else.

When we lived rural, my doctor charged 30 euros but was the best doctor I have ever had and he would only refer you when he was not confident that he could treat you. In most cases he could. He was so good. Ok I paid the extra 7 euros but in the long run I saved money and time running around going to specialists.

I have to admit I prefer the UK system where the GP consultation is free. I think that if you have to be referred in the UK then you pay and then claim the money back through health insurance. I kind of hybrid of the two systems.

[idun]

Unless you are a private patient you do not pay for other than prescriptions in the UK and that is not everyone as over 60's do not pay and there are plenty of other exceptions. I am sure that there are some things that are not entirely covered but it is all actually free. No one pays for a daily hospital charge either, although the price of the tv's in most hospitals is exhorbitant.

Too many operations in this household recently and for the first time in my life, it will be me having a couple of proper operations next year or maybe this year. I am now seeing specialists and will organise when I will go in.

[NormanH]

ALBF I think I am right that doctors can charge whatever they like. If they charge 25 euros that is what you will get reimbursed.

Wrong I'm afraid.

A médecin convetionné secteur 1 has agreed to accept the tariff set by the Sécurité Sociale, currently 23€ and set to go up to 25€ if this measure is adopted.

Of that you are reimbursed 70% or 16€10, minus 1€ making 15€10

A médecin who is not conventionné is said to set his tariffs librement which is a bit confusing to English speakers who may think that 'libre' means 'free' when in fact it means that the Doctor is free to set the charge.

If you consult one of these you will pay that price, but still only be re-imbursed on the basis of the 'tarif de base' so will have to meet the extra yourself

[alittlebitfrench]

I am alittlebitright.

I just missed out the finer details.

[mint]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]I am alittlebitright.

I just missed out the finer details.[/quote]

ER, no, I'm afraid that you are morethanalittlebitwrong.  You were misinformed about both the UK AND the French systems.

I guess you aren't the one taking the children to see the doctor then?[:P]

[alittlebitfrench]

Where exactly am I wrong ?

[Chancer]

Between the black and white "completely right" and "completely wrong" there is the grey area where most of us exist, saying I am a little bit right = I am more than a little bit wrong [:P][:D]

[mint]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Where exactly am I wrong ?[/quote]

Idun explained that everything is free in the UK at the point of use and that applies unless you choose to go totally private.

She also says that you need to pay for your prescriptions but prescriptions are free in Wales so even in the UK, not the same conditions apply everywhere.

Norman has also explained about "the tarif" so it's up to the user to choose a professional who is conventionné or not.  Personally, I always ask if the specialist is conventionné and, if not, how much their fees are.  That way, there should not be nasty surprises.

For my OH, I have chosen non conventionné when I think we have found the best person available but, for myself, it has been conventionné though I am lucky in that I enjoy very good health apart from my asthma.  In other words, nothing to threatens my life unless I can't breathe!!!

[alittlebitfrench]

I know the UK is free, I was just suggesting that maybe the UK could do a hybrid between the good parts of the French system and and the good parts of the UK system.

The French healthcare system is not that perfect !!!!!

Please read my post again !

In terms of France, yes I know how it works. I have been to enough doctors, specialists and spent months in hospital and had numerous operations.

Read my original post again !

[Gardengirl]

Incorrect about being referred too; if referred within the NHS you don't pay, so no claiming back.

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="Gardengirl "]Incorrect about being referred too; if referred within the NHS you don't pay, so no claiming back.[/quote]

Yes I knooooooow.

But the NHS is unsustainable it its current form.

I was just suggesting an alternative to healthcare for the UK.

Please read my post before saying things I did not say.

Put your specs on peeps.

[Loiseau]

Look, albf, this is what you WROTE:

"I have to admit I prefer the UK system where the GP consultation is free. I think that if you have to be referred in the UK then you pay and then claim the money back through health insurance. I kind of hybrid of the two systems. "

Maybe you meant to put a word like "should" in there, (after "...in the UK then you" and before "pay and then claim..."), but you didn't.

So maybe YOU need the specs... :-)

[andyh4]

ALBF wrote

But the NHS is unsustainable it its current form.

I am sorry but I do not agree with you.

I have had the pleasure of experiencing 3 quite different systems.

UK NHS - everything is free at source (except prescriptions for around 50% of the users) payment is made through taxation (officially NI contributions)

French system - around 70% is paid for by the caisse provided you stick with resources that work at the "agreed" rates. You are free to top up the difference with insurance.

German system - probably similar to the US system in general if not detail - you buy insurance directly from your income. You can chose the provider and costs will vary (a bit). A number of providers are industry/company linked (BKKs), but you are not forced to use these, nor prohibited if you work elsewhere. If you use the system in any quarter you make a small payment (it was 10€ but may be more now), but everything else is covered by the insurance.

All three systems work at a deficit and all three are being induced by governments to do better and bring costs into balance.

I think the quality of the three services is generally equivalent although inevitably there are differences in some areas.

In Germany I paid 13.3% of salary to my BKK - remember that they are operating at a deficit). So if NI contributions in the UK are 12% - after the first £5k of income being NI free- and at high income rates this falls to 2% for excess incomes, is it any surprise that the NHS has a problem? And remember that NI contributions cover much more than just the NHS.

The issue is not that the NHS is not sustainable, the issue is with governments that say to the electorate, vote for us, we don't need your tax monies and we will still provide you with an NHS service as you have always known. What is unsustainable is political parties who pretend that the NHS can provide ever more complex services for increasingly less personal taxation.

[mint]

Andy, you are right about taxes needing to go up in order to maintain the NHS.  Actually, the NHS funding comes from general taxation and National Insurance contributions do not pay for the NHS,  they pay for pensions.

Unless something is done about NHS funding, then I fear that more and more bits of it are going to be privatised and thus in time only the rich (or the very poor) will be able to access certain expensive procedures.  There are American companies waiting in the wings to pounce on the opportunity to provide private services and they are not there for purely altruistic reasons.

What I think is REALLY REALLY crazy is that NHS services are available simply on the grounds of residence and are not dependent on how much any individual has paid into the system.

The other thing is that, although the NHS is truly excellent, it is not the BEST in the world as politicians like to claim.  Just as a "f''rinstance", with that famous case of the King family having to kidnap their own son to whisk him off to Spain and subsequently to wherever in order to have proton beam therapy, the fact was that, in those days, there was no proton beam therapy machine in the UK.  I believe they now have 3 machines.

NHS funding was based on a flawed principle from the start.  It was never possible to provide to each according to their need and to tax according to their means.  Put another way, there have always been more poor people than rich and no government, as Andy has pointed out, is going to pledge to tax the wealthy more.

[NormanH]

A detour about the cost of  GPs in the two systems.

I am not at all sure about the following ..I put it out for thought and could be corrected.

In France you pay and are reimbursed as I outlined when you see a GP (or any other Doctor but with different figures) but only if you go.

That is to say someone in good health may not cost the system anything apart from administration costs in a given year.

On the other hand there is no real limit on the number of visits you might make if you are really ill, so the costs can vary between 0 and XXXXXXXX for patient Norman

As I understand it GPs in the Uk are salaried and are paid a certain amount patient on their list, so there is no 0 cost case.

Am I right?

[mint]

GPs are not "salaried" in the traditional sense.  Consultants ARE salaried with usually flexibility to top up their salary by taking on private work.

GPs get a per capita fee, so x amount for each patient on their books.  Then they get extra payments for reaching certain targets or doing say overtime or weekend work.  Targets might be, for example, if they manage to reach say 90% vaccination rates for babies in the practice and service over and above basic ones might be if they have a diabetic clinic, a mental health clinic etc etc

Further, their income is topped up by loans at VERY preferential rates to build new surgeries or adapt existing buildings for surgery use. These new-builds are sometimes rented to the NHS. In this way, when a GP retires, s/he is likely to have a substantial capital investment in the "business" of the surgery and the incomer would usually buy their share off the retiring ones.

They also, naturally, have an inflation-linked pension on retirement.

Drug companies often "pay" inducements to GPs to prescribe their drugs under the ostensible need to explain to the doctors the benefits of certain drugs.  In this way, some drugs such as statins have become hugely popular and, I dare say, over-prescribed.

Inducements might take the form of a golfing weekend at a top resort with maybe 30 minutes spent watching a video from the drug company and the rest of the weekend is spent playing golf and being wined and dined. Or often, sales reps from the companies might call at regular intervals with elaborate lunches laid on for all of the surgery staff.  I don't think these "extras" take the form of money payments so, strictly speaking, no one is being bribed.

I could go on but I won't and, no, it's not because I don't like doctors or think they are greedy or claim they earn too much or whatever.  I have known many doctor friends and even I get incredulous sometimes[:)]

Edit:  I forgot to say that GPs are paid like this because when the then Labour government set up the welfare state, doctors presented so much opposition that some way had to be found to bring them on board.  Doctors thought they were too grand to become state employees and it was touch and go as to whether they would play ball and, of course, doctors were pivotal to the concept of a national health service free at the point of use.