Buying a new telly..... confusion..aaaaagh!

[tazara]

Sadly our old English telly has finally gone to  meet its maker and as an extremely non teccy person I'm finding the choice of new sets utterly bewildering. I've been reading up and  think that what I want is a 32" LCD Full HD digital..and looking at them working in places like BUT the Samsung and LG seem to have very good pictures. HOWEVER...sometimes ones sees picture in which are terribly distorted...  people with short fat bodies..is this just because the set is not properly adjusted or is there some deeper problem with all the new formats that I haven't grasped.....also I presume that the telly I've described will work with my sky set up???? Would it be better (and cheaper) to buy in GB  where I might, just might, understand more of the teccy stuff.??....Any advice will be MOST GRATEFULLY received!!

[AnOther]

In simple non tecchie terms the reason you see out of proportion pictures is that TV systems are still in a state of transition. Older TV's, probably like the one which has died, will have an aspect ratio (that's width-v-height) of 4:3 which has been the standard for decades however many programmes are now made in wide screen which is commonly 16:9 - but other ratios are used to. You can probably appreciate that 4:3 does not scale up linearly to 16:9 (that would be 16:12) the net result being that if you watch a 4:3 programme with the TV set to 16:9 you end up with squashed figures. If on the other hand you set the TV to 4:3 then you end up with correct proportions but at the expense of wide black margins down either side of the screen, it's all a bit unsatisfactory but unfortunately it's the current state of play and is unlikely to change for some years yet I think. The good thing is that there is normally a button on the remote which cycles through the available ratios so you can match the screen to whatever programme is being shown.

Regarding HD well there are several variations of that and I'll freely confess that I don't really understand them which is simply because I'm just not interested and haven't bothered to really delve into it so I'll have to leave it to someone else to give you the full SP on that I'm afraid.

Hope I haven't added to much your confusion [blink]

[Maricopa]

This has been discussed in this thread.  The new TV will work perfcetly well with your existing sky set up, and in addition, if you have a decent terrestrial aerial, you will be able to watch French TV.

[Clarkkent]

The most likely reason for the poor pictures that you see is simply that the retailer has not bothered to set up the tvs properly. Poor presentation in a showroom is lazy retailing.

There should be no problems due simply to format, after all, 16:9 has been around for many years now. Many (perhaps all) tvs automatically adjust their output to match the format being transmitted. My LG tv behaves perfectly.

Some satellite channels transmit VERY old programmes and (perhaps) do not transmit the signal which tells the tv which format to use.

The best current HD picture standard is 1080p, so that is what to go for. However the current HD transmissions are1080i. I doubt that anyone watching can really tell the difference.

[chirpy]

Do not buy a Thomson as mine after 2 years had a mark inside the screen and  the shop said they could not supply a new screen as it was an old model!!!!!it was just out of guarantee and cost750euro.!!!OW.[:@]

A letter to head office was not even acknowledged.

[Théière]

Some shops set up the tv's knowing certain aerial leads produce worse pictures and some better, it is used to enhance the sale of certain brands. The same as putting items at eye level on shelves in supermarkets.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Ab"]

Do not buy a Thomson as mine after 2 years had a mark inside the screen and  the shop said they could not supply a new screen as it was an old model!!!!!it was just out of guarantee and cost750euro.!!!OW.[:@]

[/quote]

With display technology moving at such a rapid pace you could probaly have a similar experience with any brand.

Did you really pay €750 to repair a 2 year old TV, surely not [:-))]

 

[Martin963]

As AnO says,  aspect ratio is a real pain and one that the broadcasters have taken a lazy attitude to,  leading to the sort of distortions that one so often sees,  both in show rooms and in people's homes.  The BBC mainly fudges the issue by using 14:9 in an attempt to suit old fogies like me who still have nowt but 4:3 and trendies who have embraced the new format.

The situation is actually better (in some ways) in France as most of the main channels have now moved to 16:9,  although for those of us with 4:3 screens the situation is now most unsatisfactory,  with wide bands top and bottom.  However,  I digress.

What has not been quite fully covered above is HD (High Definition).   Up until very recently most sets that had an HD badge were capable of *displaying* an HD picture,  but NOT capable of receiving one direct from transmitter/satellite.   The distinction is now important as in France TNT HD transmissions are available in many areas (on TF1,  F2,  Arte,  M6,  (and Canal + if you have a sub)).   However an "HD ready" TV won't produce these HD pictures without an additional box,  whereas a true TNT/HD integrated set will.

You would need to check very carefully if the set is true HD or just HD ready,   and take advice from a properly qualified sales person.   In addition,  you need to check (at least for French TV) that you're in an area that has TNT Multiplex R5 signals.    Your TV is described by you as "full HD) but I'd ask some VERY probing questions as to what that actually means!

For satellite or Sky,  AFAIK the distinction is at present less important as there aren't any fully HD (as opposed to HD ready) sat TV's on the market,  although they'll probably come.

I'm not up on the current *commercial* aspects of what's available,   but just wanted to fill out the HD minefield a bit for you.  As I say,  if you buy an HD ready set you can always then add the box (sat or terrestrial or of course DVD player) to obtain the HD pictures so all is not lost if you opt for just HD ready.

[tel]

Hi,

Just to add to the comments, the following info is a simple guide between HD Ready and Full HD:

How to Choose your Ideal HDTV 

Full HD vs HD Ready, 1080p vs 720p?

HD signals
720i - 1280x720 interlaced
720p - 1280x720 progressive scan
1080i - 1920×1080 interlaced
1080p - 1920×1080 progressive scan

HDTV types
HD Ready - HDTV set capable of accepting HD signals (may not be able to display at full resolution 1920x1080)
Full HD - HDTV set capable of accepting HD signals and able to display full resolution at 1920x1080
720p HDTV - another name for HD Ready HDTV
1080p HDTV - another name for Full HD HDTV

Most of the HDTVs today are able to support 720i/720p/1080i/1080p signals. So the single most important spec that we should be looking for when choosing a HDTV is the screen resolution (pixel resolution).

For HD Ready HDTVs which have screen resolution less than 1920x1080, they are less than ideal. This is because if you feed a 1080i/1080p signal to a HD Ready HDTV, this HDTV will scale down the signal resolution to fit its smaller screen resolution. That is to say, you will lose resolution if you use a HD Ready HDTV to display a 1080i/1080p signal.

For Full HD HDTVs, they have screen resolution of 1920x1080, thus, when a 1080i or 1080p signal is feed to it, it is able to display the picture in its full glory at 1920x1080 with no resolution loss.

So it is not difficult to conclude that if money is not a problem, always go for Full HD 1080p HDTVs with 1920x1080 resolution instead of HD Ready 720p HDTVs which has lesser resolution.

How to Choose a Good HDTV at a Budget 

HD Ready vs Full HD, size does matters

For the same screen size, Full HD HDTVs cost much more than HD Ready HDTVs. If you are on a budget, buying a HD Ready set instead of a Full HD set will save you quite a substantial amount of money.

As a general guideline, if you are getting a HDTV set which is less than 42 inch, you won't be able to notice the resolution difference between a HD Ready set vs a Full HD set. Thus, you will be able to get almost the same visual enjoyment at a lower budget if you buy a HD Ready HDTV (720p) instead.

For screen size 42 inch or greater, going for a Full HD (1080p) will be a better choice as at such big screen size, the pixel difference will be more visible.

 

Regards

[AnOther]

[quote user="tel"]As a general guideline, if you are getting a HDTV set which is less than 42 inch, you won't be able to notice the resolution difference between a HD Ready set vs a Full HD set.[/quote]I think that sums it up in a nutshell tel [;-)]

[Martin963]

Brilliant summary.

So if I'm reading it right FULL HD doesn't mean that there's an integrated HD *receiver* inside the machine.....?

What is a TV actually containing an HD capable receiver (eg Freeview or TNT) labelled as?

[tazara]

Overwhelmed by the response to my wimping...I've certainly got a lot of bedtime reading and enough teccy stuff to blow my mind! Thank you everyone for your most helpful contributions!

[tel]

[quote user="Martin963"]Brilliant summary.

So if I'm reading it right FULL HD doesn't mean that there's an integrated HD *receiver* inside the machine.....?

What is a TV actually containing an HD capable receiver (eg Freeview or TNT) labelled as?
[/quote]

1.  The only difference between an HD Ready TV and a FULL HD is the resolution capability.
With a suitable receiver i.e. Sky HD digibox you can use either to view HD channels or if the receiver is built in such as Freeview then you don't need an HD digibox and satelite dish.

2.  It should state in the specs 'Integrated digital (freeview)'

 

Regards

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

               Our TV in the gite has just gone on the blink , so going to replace it with our and new one for us , must have spent nearly and hour in the shop trying to work out the formats so came home tail between legs then found this posting ..brill   .... will be back 2morrw with a little bit of knowledge .. could not work out why 2 tv`s  with the same spec  were 300 + 600 euros       ... one must have been HD ready they other full  HD

                  is this cheap  Orion  80 cm   1366x768  res    taux de contrast  20000 : 1 ?  what does the last part mean

oh sorry price was 400e in Hyper U

                       Dave

[pachapapa]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="tel"]As a general guideline, if you are getting a HDTV set which is less than 42 inch, you won't be able to notice the resolution difference between a HD Ready set vs a Full HD set.[/quote]I think that sums it up in a nutshell tel [;-)]

[/quote]

Currently watching a 37" 1080p LCD AND I can notice the resolution difference.

I suggest you take a look at a comparison set-up in your local french hyper-market; I am surprised you see no difference between Blu-ray HD-DVD, HD and Full HD.

 

[Martin963]

@ tel -  thanks.   But it still doesn't fully describe the fact (or difference) that it is possible (or soon will be) to buy an HD TV with an HD *tuner* integrated  (not just an ordinary TNT/Freeview tuner but an HD one).

Caveat emptor,   I guess some shops will be "dumping" the integrated TV's with SD tuners,  and folk will be disappointed if what they actually wanted was a TV that "does" HD direct from an aerial,  rather than via an adaptor.

I still meet people who think that they're already watching HD just because the TV they spent a shedload on says "HD ready" on it!

[pachapapa]

[quote]hi ok

               Our TV in the gite has just gone on the blink , so going to replace it with our and new one for us , must have spent nearly and hour in the shop trying to work out the formats so came home tail between legs then found this posting ..brill   .... will be back 2morrw with a little bit of knowledge .. could not work out why 2 tv`s  with the same spec  were 300 + 600 euros       ... one must have been HD ready they other full  HD

                  is this cheap  Orion  80 cm   1366x768  res    taux de contrast  20000 : 1 ?  what does the last part mean

oh sorry price was 400e in Hyper U

                       Dave[/quote]

The thread has been largely limited to a UK view point but I note you quote Hyper-U.

May I suggest if you read some french that a perusal of the french website LCD Compare may be beneficial in making your choice.

The website at top right now includes a self selection option which is useful.

Assuming that you watch french television a TNT HD integrated tuner may be preferable, as your local Amailloux Transmitter is already transmitting Arte in HD and will add TF1, France 2/3 in the new year.

http://www.lcd-compare.com/

The following web page will give you an idea of available equipment in the french Hypers.

http://www.promo-conso.net/rubrique.php?ref_rub=r004

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

                 no all I want to do is watch non  HD free sky  TV on it with no dogs whatsits  and maybee  when my French gets better ..local tv

                       Dave

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Martin963"]@ tel -  thanks.   But it still doesn't fully describe the fact (or difference) that it is possible (or soon will be) to buy an HD TV with an HD *tuner* integrated  (not just an ordinary TNT/Freeview tuner but an HD one).

Caveat emptor,   I guess some shops will be "dumping" the integrated TV's with SD tuners,  and folk will be disappointed if what they actually wanted was a TV that "does" HD direct from an aerial,  rather than via an adaptor.

I still meet people who think that they're already watching HD just because the TV they spent a shedload on says "HD ready" on it!
[/quote]

A bit late, local Leclerc shifted their TNT integrated LCDs in summer sales at -50% most went in first week but 3 survived to the second mark down to -75%.

All now on sale have TNT HD integrated tuners.

[chirpy]

NO I PAID 750euro FOR THE NEW SET    -IT COULD NOT BE REPAIRED AFTER ONLY 2 YEARS.

I previously had a Toshiba about 10 years old which was excellent until on/off switch broke and as xpected that was no longer a stock item-but 2 years ----that really hurt!![:@]

[Martin963]

Thanks pachapapa for the retail update.   France is well ahead here then as (AFAIK) the first proper (ie in service) Freeview HD transmissions in Britain are due Dec 2009 from Winter Hill and it's thought (by many in the know) that there won't be ANY DTT HD tuners  (integrated or free standing) for punters to get their paws on.

Oh well,  back to my CRT's....

[Théière]

[quote user="Martin963"]France is well ahead here then as (AFAIK) the first proper (ie in service) Freeview HD transmissions in Britain are due Dec 2009 from Winter Hill [/quote]

How very dare you sir [:D] What about the BBC/ITV collaboration for HD via the satellite, Humax etc, does that not count?

[Martin963]

I did (carefully) say Freeview  (ie terrestrial UHF,  not sat).

But I'd say that the French ARE quite a long way ahead though,   with four national channels in HD 24/7 on terrestrial (albeit I guess a lot of the material is upscaled).  In Britain there are none on DTT at the moment,  (a few on test from Crystal Palace),  although Winter Hill starts in December.

Even for  satellite:

BBC - a few hours a day...

ITV - rare transmissions,  well hidden

ch 4- scrambled HD only available via Sky.

I have a Freesat HD receiver but have yet to think it's worth buying the HD screen to go with it.    The BBC HD channel is useful to see things we've missed when they first went out,  displayed on our 22 inch SD CRT!.

I'd get an HD screen if I was a film or sports buff,  but I mainly watch the French news,  whichever country I'm in.

I'd do a smiley but don't want to break the habit of a lifetime!!

[Théière]

Thanks Martin

[Martin963]

Sorry Teapot,  didn't mean to sound as though I was having a SOH failure!

I think our current British situation has a lot to do with being "early adopters".    OnDigital rushed to get on air as near to Sky Digital's date as possible,  and as a result we were saddled with 2k symbolling where the French use 8k (which compensates for the less robust 64 QAM they use,  and we used at the start,  although the BBC ares (mainly) using 16 QAM at the moment).   But I digress into the realsm of boring technology.

The French benefited from waiting until 2003 (was it?) so were aided by half a decade of further advances.  (although I suppose the only difference was the 2k/8k one,  at least until HD started).

Bit like DAB really,  which the French have escaped from with no egg on faces (at least not much,  a few thousand receivers if that that now don't work anymore) whereas Britain is saddled with useable - but very long in the tooth and klutzy - DAB "original".