Im being Sued, ha ha ha its not funny

[condorman]

Hi all, 7 days, 7 days, ugh

 

[Kevinmc]

Could you invest some of your wealth in an apostrophe key. It would make this a lot easier to read.

[Frenchy]

Kevinmc, very helpful and informative post that was.  It always amazes me how quickly these sorts of people seem to rear their heads when they see an opportunity to criticise or belittle anyone. 

Condorman, keep us posted on your situation, I can only imagine the anger I would feel in the same situation, hopefully others will read your post and be warned. I know you aren't allowed to name the agent but what area are you in? Good luck and let us know what the outcome is.

[condorman]

[quote]Could you invest some of your wealth in an apostrophe key. It would make this a lot easier to read.[/quote]

Kevinmc, Hi Sorry about the spelling punctuation etc etc,

[condorman]

[quote]Kevinmc, very helpful and informative post that was. It always amazes me how quickly these sorts of people seem to rear their heads when they see an opportunity to criticise or belittle anyone. Con...[/quote]

Hi Frenchy, Thank's for the post, my agent is in dep't 12, I have to say the problemb lies with the  agent in England who has poor communication with his French counterparts, with the Mobile phone, Fax, Landline, E mail and Minitel there are no excuses.

Ill keep yas posted on what happens,, thank's for the interest........

[Will]

It's always difficult without knowing the full facts from both sides, but it does sound, Condorman, as if you have good grounds for action against the English agent. You don't say who this is, or on what basis they work (probably wisely) but it does sound like a rather strange arrangement.

In most cases English agents act virtually as representatives for French immobiliers, in that they take note of your needs, put you in touch with relevant agencies in France, then if you buy your dealings are with the people in France - the English agent has done his part of the job. Sometimes it's different - if you are buying a farm or a business, for example, or if the English agent is one of those to whom you pay an all-imclusive price, including a fee for the English agent's services (in the example I gave the English agent shares commission with the French agent, so you don't pay anything to the English agent).

So are you paying a fee to the English agent to be sued in France for his nonchalance/ incompetence?

I get the gist of what you are saying, don't worry if other forum users can't read

[Iceni]

Sorry Condorman I am confused - why did you sign the compromis if it did not contain the clauses that you wanted ?

John

 

[Jirac18]

Good point Iceni, If it ain't in the compromis don't sign it until it is. Too many rogues about to trust word of mouth. It is always worth paying a little extra for a correct translation if necessay. Any how good luck Condorman in getting it sorted out. Are you able to say who the agent was in a private mail?

[condorman]

Thanks everyone for the posts, in reply... The English agent takes a cut of the French agents slice, and I don't have to pay them.

I signed the compromi because I wanted the property, I have bought from these agents before, they know I develop property in the uk, and intend to do the same as my hobby in France.    legally i'm entitled to pull out within the 7 days after the day I recieved the comprame, thats the law.   so why should I have worried, Im professional in my work, I expect it from others in business.  It amazes me how in many walks of life people set themseves up as something and they cant come up with the goods on an individual level, cr-p is the word im looking for...

Don't you find it amazing that when i sent them a copy of the suspect paragraph, standard on a comprame, i hasten to add, they didn't know it said as a suspensive condition this property will have a cu....words to that effect any how.... and the cu was what this whole thing was about.

At the end of the day, its the property I wanted and it will have the Cu, so great but the sour bit is that they didn't know this and are prepared to screw me. 

Sorry no, I can't give out who they are,  thanks to everyone for replying its been great...........

[Miki]

I signed the compromi because I wanted the property, I have bought from these agents before, they know I develop property in the uk, and intend to do the same as my hobby in France.

Sorry but are you seriously saying you were buying properties from these agents and doing them up, then selling them as a "hobby" here or they are British agents who you bought places off in the UK then did them up, sold them on and thought you could do the same in France ?

They were obviously not going to tell you the laws about doing that here then, were they. If you are professional, then why were you not aware that buying, doing up and selling on as a hobby here, is not actually legal (you might get away once by saying it is your property but you run a high risk by trying it a second time) unless you were going to register as an artisan (if you qualified) or indeed as a marchand de biens?

Something is not quite right with all this.

 

 

[Miki]

I signed the compromi because I wanted the property, I have bought from these agents before, they know I develop property in the uk, and intend to do the same as my hobby in France.

Sorry but are you seriously saying you were buying properties from these agents and doing them up, then selling them as a "hobby" here or they are British agents who you bought places off in the UK then did them up, sold them on and thought you could do the same in France ?

They were obviously not going to tell you the laws about doing that here then, were they. If you are professional, then why were you not aware that buying, doing up and selling on as a hobby here, is not actually legal (you might get away once by saying it is your property but you run a high risk by trying it a second time) unless you were going to register as an artisan (if you qualified) or indeed as a marchand de biens?

Something is not quite right with all this.

 

 

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

They were obviously not going to tell you the laws about doing that here then, were they. If you are professional, then why were you not aware that buying, doing up and selling on as a hobby here, is not actually legal (you might get away once by saying it is your property but you run a high risk by trying it a second time)

Also I cannot see how you could class this as a "Hobby" when in fact it is a firm business venture. I have a friend who tried exactly the same thing (as a business venture) and after trying to buy 5 properties here gave up due to nearly every sale falling through due to one difficulty or another (typical french logic involved).

 

[condorman]

Hi Neutral zone, I think youve mised the point of all this and gone off on a tangent,  keep yer hair on.ha ha ha ha

[condorman]

Look at the 1st post it was about the comprame and pulling out within the 7 days, have you any feelings on that? o and I employ so called experts to guide me as I am no expert on French law..If You employ an expert wouldent YOU expect them to be competent?? or if they make a mistake would you be happy in takin the rap for it,, have a think chears.....

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

Look at the 1st post it was about the comprame and pulling out within the 7 days, have you any feelings on that? o and I employ so called experts to guide me as I am no expert on French law..If You employ an expert wouldent YOU expect them to be competent?? or if they make a mistake would you be happy in takin the rap for it,, have a think chears.....

 

Hi condorman thanx for clearing that up..... Just thought you'd like to know about my mate trying something similar and realising it wasn't worth the hassle!

I do agree with you concerning the above, as one who also paid good money to an *expert* and shall we just say was basically *stitched up*. I do feel the agent(s) should be gelded and smoked over slow burning coals and the sad thing is there are an awful lot of incompentents out there still trading.

I personally think that 7 days is not enough time (especially if your in the UK) and perhaps a signed, dated, recorded delivery and express posted letter to the immobilier is the only course of action possible?

[I1]

Kevinmc: It is very ban manners/bad "form" to comment on or criticise other peoples grammar/spelling in a forum (particularly one that does not include spell checkers). This is general practice in all forums.

Anyway; I am pretty cynical about Estate Agents. When I sold my UK property and purchased my French one I had issues (though nothing like as serious as yours) with both agents. My UK Estate Agents decided to contact my UK solicitor as ask that they fee just be deducted directly from the sale funds and they never intended to send me a bill/invoice for approval of the amount or anything. It then became apparent they were trying for their percentage of the advertised price rather than the actual sale price (which was rectified once I got to see the invoice).

Also, I purchased through an organisation that combined the Estate Agency services and Legal/Translation services (who I obviously cannot name). They omitted to spot things failed to check documents, were slow, etc. Their attitude was "we are in charge of this and to be honest you (the customer) are not relevant in it". I actually went to sign for "completion" without (to my knowledge" anybody having actually checked the contract). Fortunately the British employee in France and the French Agent were helpful and we went through everything the morning before the signing in the afternoon.

As a "comment" and my personal experience, one of the reasons I moved to France and left business was the gradual change of "attitude" in business where, when I first started it was "a fair price for a fair job", but more recently has migrated to "the need to extract as much money from the customer as possible".

This response has been written without any use of the apostrophe. However without wanting to denigrate the apostrophe, a good/amusing example I heard from the “Apostrophe Protection Society” (which really does exist: http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/) was “There was no food in the house so I ate the dogs” or “There was no food in the house so I ate the dog’s”. I am being trivial here and am not trying to upset anybody – so don’t take it the wrong way.

[Pantouflard]

I1, I'm probably being a bit slow but I am not quite sure why your last paragraph 'denigrates the apostrophe', nor why you are concerned it might cause offence.

I take your earlier point about commenting on poor grammar but sometimes it can make a post difficult to read.  Surely the purpose of posting is to communicate.  A little bit of puntuation can make it so much easier.

[I1]

My comment on the apostrophe (and the associated organisation) was because I found it amusing and thought others might as well.  I was not passing opinion.

I mention the issue on poor grammar as it is "general forum (all forums everywhere) manners".  A bit like if you are invited out to dinner and are served a rather chewy steak - you are polite and say how nice it was.  I agree that things are easier to read with perfect grammar, spelling, etc. but we are not all wizards with the keyboard, nor do we all have all the time in the world to keep checking everything (some people may be on a time limited or pay-as-you-go dial-up link, etc.  There are many possible reasons why a few characters may have been omitted (and I understood it fine).

I mention about causing offence because there are some people on some forums (including this one) who will jump to conclusions and then start being quite rude in their responses.  I wanted to make sure that nobody took my comments that way and that nobody started a "big thing" of the minor comment I was making.

(I now notice that this forum does have a spell check button - which I had missed previously)

[Miki]

A bit like if you are invited out to dinner and are served a rather chewy steak - you are polite and say how nice it was. 

Not if you have French friends to dinner, they will tell you quick enough if anything is 'orrible !

 

[Iceni]

"I personally think that 7 days is not enough time (especially if your in the UK) and perhaps a signed, dated, recorded delivery ... "

We bought direct from vendor so no agents. In our case the 7 days started on the day we received notaire's recorded delivery letter telling us we had 7 days to pull out.Whether this period is adequate is irrelevant, that's the rule. No likee, no playee - buy in England where there is no cooling off period.

IMH(umble)O signing a potentially binding agreement when you KNOW that it is not correct and hoping to rely on A.N.Other to bail you out within the 7 days clause (particularly when that A.N.Other will make money if the deal goes ahead) is at the least naive. Sorry Condorman if you have been conned but remember, you were dealing with estate agents.

John

 

[neutralzone<EM>Lets not <STRONG>bitch!<STRONG><EM>]

Not if you have French friends to dinner, they will tell you quick enough if anything is 'orrible !

Yup NONE of the commune will drink my wife's coffee and in fact blatantly tell her is crap to her face 

I have to say though, it really does need a government health warning

 

[Coral]

Di, I think you  have hit the nail right on the head there.

I think most people know not to sign anything with out reading the small print and knowing exactly what you are signing for.  Cozy comments like "Don't worry about the paper peeling off the walls, it's because it has been closed up for a long time" from A.S.Windler - and you are ankle deep in water in the kitchen do not improve confidence that they will do anything that will harm their income.

Speaking from experience

Coral - soon to be in Ariege - I hope

Oh yes! so that's where the spell check is.

[Piprob]

What an interesting thread.

And what brave folk there are, willing to make contracts in a language they don't understand, ruled by laws they don't understand. I'm not criticising this. I'm just completely baffled by it.

It makes buying a field, then designing and commisioning a house build seem like child's play. And I though WE were brave enough!

[LynneG]

[quote]Thanks everyone for the posts, in reply... The English agent takes a cut of the French agents slice, and I don't have to pay them. I signed the compromi because I wanted the property, I have bought f...[/quote]

Firstly, I am not a lawyer but a journalist currently researching the property market in France and role played by Estate Agencies in the Uk and English Agents based in France.

" The English agent takes a cut of the French agents slice, and I don't have to pay them. "

This under French Law is illegal as a French Estate Agency is forbidden to share it's commission with a third party.  If an english company is to beneft from the sale then their commssion must be referred to on the Mandate of Sale and agreed by the seller.  The English company must also have a legal presence (SARL etc) in France as the benefit arises from  sale within France and thus, the UK company is taxable in France.

Therefore I don't think the french agent dare sue you.  Equally, if you have no agreement with the English company then there is no contract and they would be foolhardy to sue you.

Write to the Notaire.  Tell him that you want your 10% back and that the you have been misled by the ommissio/negligence of the French agent to inform you of the rules concerning the CU and that, in any even, the agreement between the agents is illegal and that you intend to refer it to the Controle des Fraudes.  It is likely that this Notaire has benefitted from the agent's arrangement previously and this may persuade him to annul the lot.

The more I look into this subject, there are abuses all over the place by opportunist English Estate Agents, Intermediaries, Web Sites etc.  I have an interesting interview next week with the Maitre of the Gendarmerie at Fougères to speak of his concerns and what the french law enforcement people intend to do about it.

Good luck with it Condorman.

[Millymollymandy]

If you want to pull out during the 7 day cooling off period, you need to put it in writing which must be sent by registered mail. No letter, no proof, no pulling out.