LynneG

You are right Tony.  House Hunters (sic) should always make sure that the people you are dealing with are actually legit.  Asking for a name, office address (in France!) and a fixed telephone number (not a mobile) is not an unreasonable request. I think we have also mentioned here recently the need to establish what fees are involved, particularly through Uk based agents.  Do not be afraid to ask for a copy of their set commissions and to ask whether the price is any different to that charged to a client walking through the door of the agency in France.

This was not meant to expose a scam, merely to advise those who decide to go through a UK agency, that they could be paying considerably more commissions than those going direct to the French Immobilier. At least this Immobilier has been 'up front' about it, although the print on the bareme could certainly have been described as 'small print'. I have written to the agency and asked for some more info.  no response as yet.  Once I find out who are their British 'referring' agencies who take the additional 50% I will post it. There are plenty of decent french immobiliers around, many of whom speak english who will not charge the additional tariff.  You can find them easily with a web search 'estate agent immobilier' (and then the village or area in which you are interested).  once in contact, ask for a copy of their bareme.  This is information that in not denied someone calling at their office and thus those with nothing to hide will respond accordingly.

Believe it Bob! I have emailed the agency for a copy. No response as yet.  I was hoping to interview the Director shortly for a publicity piece on the village and 14 July.  I think that might have gone by the by. The advice is therefore to ask the UK based French Property Agency for a breakdown in all fees. Does anyone know which UK based agencies are beneficiaries of the 50%mark-up with agence de le tour?

The recent activity of the Fraude and regulatory bodies etc have prompted a change in the mode of activity between many French Immobilier and their UK Agency associates. For example, French Immobilier 'Agence de la Tour' of Domfront (61) and Lassay Les Chateaux (53) now clearly display on the tariff displayed in their offices that sales referred from a UK agency are subject to a further charge of a further 50% of the Immobilier fee. This serves to 'out' the frequently used explanation that the UK agency shares the fees with the French Immobilier.  Yes they do, but not before adding the 50% to the fees available to the French buyer. This does bring many issues into question.  Has the seller, who signs a mandate to approve the amount of commission to be paid by the buyer, been given notification of this further charge.  he may think that this makes his property less attractive to the prospective buyer. Simply ask your agency for a copy of their tariff (called a bareme) and if it includes this additional charge, think about viewing elsewhere.  Many agencies have the same properties and not all have the additional UK charge. Lynne

Still nor response or movement on mayenneproperties.com. Are they still in business or have they closed down? Anyone know? Lynne

[quote]Doesn`t stop them getting pregnant at 15 and commiting adultery though does it? Mrs O[/quote] What about coveting your neighbour's wife.  Charles didn't have to be a catholic to break that one. Back on the wedding.  I doubt it's validity in Law.  The 'just impediment' question given by the registrar is a public question and open to objection by any member of the pubic.  The wedding being behind closed doors may constitute a failure of this declaration being 'public'.  Those who have tried to move a date of a civil wedding on a week's notice will probably be aware of the requirement to publish the notice and for that notice to de displayed for a requisite number of days.  New date and time , new notice, old notices invalid.  Am I wrong?  Someone call a lawyer!

Thanks.  I have been made aware of the history concerning the mayenneproperties and other sites but that doesn't concern my work. The closely named site I assume you to mean www.mayenneproperties.fr This isn't a property sales site though, but it might be described, in journalistic terms, as a 'spoiler'.  Nonetheless, the information appears accurate and, dare I say helpful to those not wanting to fall into the intermediary agency 'trap'. My original reasons for posting was relative, not only to lack of response, but also that the sites were either down or had not been updated for a considerable period, having previously been fairly well maintained.  best wishes Lynne  

in recent weeks I have been making enquiries of the various french property sites in UK and France and getting further info etc.  Thanks to all who have contributed and helped me. Does anyone know if the following sites continue to operate, or if they are no longer in existence.  One of them has been dormant for about 6 weeks. www.reposenfrance.net www.mayenneproperties.com www.frenchpropertyshop.com Thanks Lynne

[quote]European Law may say what it likes. I am afraid, the french system has little regard for this and quoting any EU treaties in the gendarmerie will not help. This is simply not true if you know how ...[/quote] Richard, that was really informative, thanks.  However, I know of a number of people who have been taken into the Gendarmerie and placed 'garde en vue' for up to 4 hours whilst they are questioned by the Gendarmes. Throughout the procedure, the Gendarmes remain in constant contact with the procurator, advising him of any responses to questions and information given to them.  The Gendarmes certainly do not act as arbitrators or seekers of the truth. They are there to put their findings to the accused and to record their answer.  I think that might be akin to working for the prosecution. The bums of seats comment is wholly correct and appears to be the main thrust of the gendarmes local investigation on Brit settlers in this area who are working for their own UK company. So, what directive/regulation/treaty etc does the UK director, living and working in France quote to the gendarmes when nicked? But thanks for all the info so far.

[quote]If you are an employee of your UK company AND you are employed by it in France, you don't need to be registered again in France as per European freedom of movement legislation. Arnold[/quote] I am currently working on a book relating to anglo/french business and it's pitfalls.   My research in both the Uk and france has shown this to be a much quoted error. If your UK business conducts more that 30% of it's work in France then you are required by French law to register and have a siege social in France. However, SweetPea, as may anyone else, can register as a Agent Commercial for a business. The role of an agent commercial is as an intermediary between one company and a customer. If the commercial agent is also a party to the company or has a fiduciary interest in it, then he/she ceases to be an 'Agent' but, in reality the representative of the company itself. Also, another misconeption is that registration as an Agent Commercial is a green light to advertise or sell properties in France.  This, is according to FNAIM, becoming an extremely hot potato for the Immobilier busines, particularly in relation to British people purporting to be 'Property Finders' but, in truth, acting as agents and therafter having their 'commissions', not properly recorded on the Acte de Vente and paid outside of France. The final issue is one that may have huge consequences for any British buyer who has bought through an UK agency or Agent Commercial since 1 January 2004 and, who has paid money privately in the United Kingdom which was not declared in the Acte de Vente. My information is that there is a bi-lingual Brigade, currently working in Manche and Brittany who are sweeping through Immobilier offices removing files where Brits have bought properties and intermediares/translators may have been involved or present. European Law may say what it likes.  I am afraid, the french system has little regard for this and quoting any EU treaties in the gendarmerie will not help. Great here isn't it?

I have been trying to log onto this site for a couple of days now with no luck.  (www.frenchways.com) It used to be quite informative.  Can anyone tell me what has happened?

Does anyone know how I can contact Bernie (I think her surname was Proctor) who used to work at Normandimmo in Pre en Pail.

I recently came across a website via Google at bookbarn.fr but I don't think it has started yet. It is based in Normandy Mayenne. There is another one also that has started in Voutré (Sarthe) but I don't think it has a web site.

Just a quick addendum to Will's comment. The role of an AC is not merely sales and showing folk around houses as the 'salesman' It includes the finding of the biens/properties for sale, obtaining a mandate fr sale from the proprietor AND the separate marketing of the biens. The latter is all important as it is proof of a person working separately to the immobilier and not acting as would an employee.

Hi I am curerently doing a little research on this AC business as part of an article on Brits in France. As I understand it, the purpose of the decision was to stop AC's running Immobilier offices whilst their principal (the holder of a carte verte) is merely a nominee. This is similar to rules implemented in the Uk by the Law society whereby an unqualified person is not allowed to run a solicitor's office without a solicitor being in situe at that location.  It is amazing how many Immobilier's offices that are run by ACs only despite their purporting to be Immobiliers It will not affect AC Immobilier's (those with a carte gris) from continuing to work with the person on the carte verte provided that that are open in declaring that they are not the Immobilier and run their 'activity' at a seperate address from which they pay the appropriate professional taxes. My research has shown that despite the recent court decision in the south, the departments of the Orne, Morhiban, Sarthe, Ille de Villaine and Mayenne are all continuing as normal, however, will be taking steps against the 'shell' immobiliers to employ those ACs who run their offices. Any other info would be gratfully received.

Hi I have found this article interesting and having done further research can testify to it's accuracy. www.grapevine.fr/features/money/gitestax.htm Lynne

[quote]Thanks everyone for the posts, in reply... The English agent takes a cut of the French agents slice, and I don't have to pay them. I signed the compromi because I wanted the property, I have bought f...[/quote] Firstly, I am not a lawyer but a journalist currently researching the property market in France and role played by Estate Agencies in the Uk and English Agents based in France. " The English agent takes a cut of the French agents slice, and I don't have to pay them. " This under French Law is illegal as a French Estate Agency is forbidden to share it's commission with a third party.  If an english company is to beneft from the sale then their commssion must be referred to on the Mandate of Sale and agreed by the seller.  The English company must also have a legal presence (SARL etc) in France as the benefit arises from  sale within France and thus, the UK company is taxable in France. Therefore I don't think the french agent dare sue you.  Equally, if you have no agreement with the English company then there is no contract and they would be foolhardy to sue you. Write to the Notaire.  Tell him that you want your 10% back and that the you have been misled by the ommissio/negligence of the French agent to inform you of the rules concerning the CU and that, in any even, the agreement between the agents is illegal and that you intend to refer it to the Controle des Fraudes.  It is likely that this Notaire has benefitted from the agent's arrangement previously and this may persuade him to annul the lot. The more I look into this subject, there are abuses all over the place by opportunist English Estate Agents, Intermediaries, Web Sites etc.  I have an interesting interview next week with the Maitre of the Gendarmerie at Fougères to speak of his concerns and what the french law enforcement people intend to do about it. Good luck with it Condorman.