phylisbide Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 We are seriously considering splitting the year between France and UK, starting next January. Is there a central source of info - its quite a big subject. We have a property in France already - and three years' experience as occasional visitors. This is a serious option for us and we would be pleased for some input. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Lots of things to take into account.....Are either of you drawing a UK state pension?Will you be working , if so in which country?Where do you want to be tax resident?Can you manage ongoing health issues as a vistor in the other country where you will not be resident?If you have significant assets, property eyc you will need paid for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham34 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 This is something we would like to do at some stage. Put simply it would enable us to live in France for half the year without the commitment of upping sticks completely, plus it would add variety to our lifestyle and keep us in touch with UK family. Although there are plenty of logistics to sort out, the major downside is that it's an expensive lifestyle (maintaining two properties, travel etc.) that most of us will not be able to sustain for long.If you spend more time in the UK that any other country and never more than 90 days (I think) in France then on the surface it's not much more complex than taking several long holidays. However, there are obviously details to consider like house minding, post, where to base a car.Where it's best to be a tax resident will obviously depend on individual circumstances (income, whether a pensioner, assets, health arrangements...).Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 If it is worrying you a great deal why not start off with say,three months at a time to see how the land lies especially with things like your car insurance limit,health cover and general expenditure. I know a couple who are doing this and extending their stays longer and longer each time until they feel the time is right for them to leave one place for good and sell up. You do need to speak to the IR about tax queries as you don't want them chasing you with nasty bills to pay and the french too,plus you have your UK property to think of in terms of sufficient insurance cover if it gets burgled whilst you are away for a long period or damage occurs as you know how these companies will try and wriggle out of paying up if they can find the slightest little thing and someone trusted to keep a close eye on it,shut up houses stick out like a sore thumb I am afraid these days especially with neglected lawns and gardens. You may find also that six months is far too long for you here away from your close friends and family anyway until you get used to a different way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfclan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I intend doing the same thing, though I will be spending half the time between IRELAND AND FRANCE for the first 18 months or so and will then move permanently to France if I am convinced that it is right for me. I will then retain the Irish property as an investment. I think proper tax planning is essential in order that:- you do not become resident in France for tax purposes by mistake.- you understand the optimum time of the year to move tax residency, if that is your wish.- You avoid being caught for tax in both countries.- You have a separate will in both countries dealing with the respective assets in those countries.- If ultimately selling your U.K. property you manage the disposal on a timely basis in relation to when you take up tax residency in France.- You understand what french allowances and income and social charges that you will have if you become French tax resident.- If moving to France and retaining and letting your U.K. property you evaluate trhe desireability of taking out a U.K. mortgage, the interest on which, should be capable of being allowed as a deduction against the rental income.- You structure your other investments before moving full time to France.The above are some potential issues. I am sure that there are more. I do not have the answers and for my part I will be seeking paid professional advice.Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I thought about this yesterday as I watched the rain pour down whilst I waited for it to get light about 9.00am.I would advise winter in the UK. It is SO miserable here and I become positively depressed with the dark mornings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeb Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Golfclan..........what will you do about transport? Will you keep a French registered and insured car in France and an Irish reg and insured car in Ireland? The friends I have who are spending half the year in France are doing this. They do not fill in French tax forms and veiw their months in France as long holidays for tax purposes. They are also well off and just fly back to the UK with any health problems (I'm sure they would rely on their E111 for emergences). regards............helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeb Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I meant to add.........Alexis - move down to the Charente ( you can always stay in bed until 8.30am) but the weather on the whole is much, much better than in the UK. regards.........helen (can't find edit facility!)PS.....on French news this morning they were talking about the storms that have hit Oban which they said was in Nord Angleterre!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfclan Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Helen,I intend to buy a French car, probably new as they seem to hold their value better.Golfclan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRT17 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re. weather:Alexis we too have had diabolical weather in U.K. especially the last couple of days but today in the S.E. it's just beautiful, cold, sunny, blue sky just perfect for January.Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Must admit we have been looking at a 50/50 split between the UK starting in a few years time, France from April to Oct UK for the rest. I had not really thought of tax implications like others quoted was thinking of it as a long holiday.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 For anybody who intends to work, it is very important to consider tax, and, more importantly, health and social security implications. If it is really a long holiday then these things will be of lesser importance, particularly after GB adopts the European health card at the end of this year.It's very nice weather in southern Normandy today too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Very nice in Brittany today too. 4.30 and we are almost sunbathing.....It is the dark mornings I can't stand. I stay in bed and watch télématin and have a good laugh. Usually. I just love William and Frederick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRT17 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 AlexisThat's what daytime T.V. is for............those days when you just can't face the outside world. Being in France and an hour ahead then I guess that your afternoons are lighter than ours.Anyway, Spring is coming! well soon(ish) ! How about a nice day out with a little retail therapy at IkeaGill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham34 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Assuming you don't work in France then you need to make sure that you spend the majority of the year in the UK if you want to be a UK tax resident (i.e. a French tax exile).If you only go to France and the UK this means spending a max. of 182 days i.e. six months France so your April to October plan will have to be trimmed a bit - how about getting out of France in August Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phylisbide Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 Some interesting observations - thank you to all who have responded. The 182 days max in France can presumably be in more than one chunk of time - the suggestion that we try it in smaller chunks to start with sounds sensible. Not planning to work - although we might rent some holiday accommodation in the future - at which time we obviously start paying French tax on earnings there - as well as English tax on earnings here in UK. Interested in the idea of thinking of this as longish holidays - and using the E111 or health passport later in the year - does anyone know of anything else we need to think about? (House insurances and transport sorted) Are there any good websites or books on the subject that you can recommend we check out? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham34 Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 If your only French income is from holiday let rental then as a non-French resident the French tax paperwork has been made relatively easy apparently. I would suggest doing a search in the Finance Topic (it's been on there several times), but have just tried myself and failed - even with advanced search.It would also be a good idea to keep records of travel dates along with travel ticket receipts, just in case you need to prove where you spend your time.Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Remember that despite all the scare stories (that have some justification) about high charges for people working in France, it's not necessarily a bad thing to be tax-resident or resident for healthcare purposes in France - either practically or financially. One other thing to watch is that tax residency qualifications are different in UK and France, so you can be deemed to be tax resident in both places. Because of the dual taxation agreement this can work in your favour, but, obviously, specialist advice is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeJay Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 For about 3 years we trotted across to Southern France 4 times a year for about 1 month each visit until it dawned on us that we were not making best use of our house there and also incurring heavy costs in travel. As a result we have, for the last 3 years, gone across at the end of April and stayed until November. We have not found any problem that cannot be overcome e.g. the house insurance in France is a second home policy, the house insurance in England is still valid because our children visit every other weekend onnthe advice of Direct Line. The car is insured through Saga who have advised me that there are no restrictions on cover in France for that period of time and also for the breakdown cover. All bills are paid by Direct Debit in both countries and for money we draw from our Nationwide account by ATM who make no charges at all. Our neighbours in France are magnificent and two of them have sets of keys and also email regularly. As far as the tax man is concerned we are resident for the alloted time in UK. We also take our boxer with us and she thoroughly enjoys it. I have even acquired an allotment in France as ours is a town house with no garden. I am sure,as usual, on this forum there will be those who point out something wrong and terrible about this situation, but you can't please all the people all the time and I am now quite immune to these........persons. When I percieve a problem I try to cater for it in advance, but so far no problem, even the question of health is not a big deal if you are properly covered and prepared.Go for it and enjoy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athene Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote]We are seriously considering splitting the year between France and UK, starting next January. Is there a central source of info - its quite a big subject. We have a property in France already - and t...[/quote]There will also be a problem with your UK car insurance as it will not extend to more than 30 days out of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Athene This has cropped up before and Saga do offer -see their web-site:Cover when driving in the European Union, at no extra cost and for an unlimited period.So it can be useful to be over 50! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athene Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 [quote]Athene This has cropped up before and Saga do offer -see their web-site: Cover when driving in the European Union, at no extra cost and for an unlimited period. So it can be useful to be ove...[/quote]Many thanks you for this information! I wish I had had it a month earlier when I insured! However, after this year, I will definitely try Saga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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