Worries for 16 year old settling in France

[KathyC]

[quote user="Tresco"]

That's a new one on me.

What level of examination are you referring to, and please, a link/reference to where you learnt this?

 

[/quote]

Tresco, you might also be interested in this from last year.

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,591-1772007,00.html

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Tresco"]

I think generally, this is a move for people

who are unencumbered, or with children under  (roughly) 10 years

old depending on how much intensive private tuition people can afford,

or whether they can afford an International School.

.[/quote]

I'm not generally regarded as a teller-of-doom on this site (more

often as an over optimistic, rose-lensed looney, in fact), but I would

go even further than Tresco. Having watched a couple of families fall

to pieces and head back to the UK (and another one whom I fear will

shortly follow), I'd say that six years old might be a better limit.

Children older than this have often formed relationships and ties that

they find very difficult to break. Obviously there are people who have

no choice but to move and there are people who have made the move with

far older children with complete success, but one should never

underestimate the impact that an unhappy child can have on a household.

[Miki]

Jon,

Of all the kids that we have seen do well educationally, strangely

perhaps, it is the ones that have had a good grounding in a UK school

first or ones whose parents really have the time to assist the kids

with subjects like English (note, restoration work and other similar

exhausting works, rarely mean much time for long extra lesssons out of

school by the parents !). Those kids, do for the gretaer part, have a

good basic grounding in English and have learned quite a bit of grammer

and vocab. It is the younger ones, without having had any or little

schooling that struggle with having good comprehension of written

English etc later on.

Apart from perhaps having British parents, learning English in a French

school, is predictably the same type of lesons that the Brits will have

in French back in the UK. No need to ask how many Brits speak or write

French is there !

My personal opinion is that around 10 even 11or so, is a very good age

to come here, the downside, as already said, is if that child wants to

be here and that can happen at any age bar perhaps, the much younger

ones.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Miki"]Jon,

Of all the kids that we have seen do well educationally, strangely

perhaps, it is the ones that have had a good grounding in a UK school

first or ones whose parents really have the time to assist the kids

with subjects like English (note, restoration work and other similar

exhausting works, rarely mean much time for long extra lesssons out of

school by the parents !). Those kids, do for the gretaer part, have a

good basic grounding in English and have learned quite a bit of grammer

and vocab. It is the younger ones, without having had any or little

schooling that struggle with having good comprehension of written

English etc later on.

[/quote]

Fair point. It's always dangerous to conclude too much from two or

three particular families, but I was struck by the age of the children

in these cases ie around 8.

I agree that a lot of time has to be invested in teaching children good

written English and it is something we factor into our week. To be

honest, it was one of the reasons I volunteered to teach English at the

school - practice on other people's poor suffering offspring has taught

me a fair bit about how to approach mine....

[Wendy]

Tricia, for a start, as your son is 16, how much french does he speak? because once the kids are 16 school here is optional so the schools can refuse to accept them if they dont like the level of french that they speak. And they do as this has happened to us. Opportunities? once again, how much french do they speak?. Try getting a job unless you can speak the language to their satisfaction, as a matter of fact, unemployment is rife here even amoungst the natives. I wouldnt call this the land of milk and honey by a long shot. In fact my two eldest will leave this country the first chance they get.

[KathyC]

Isn't it annoying when someone posts this type of question and then doesn't bother to reply, after so many people have given an opinion (and some have taken the time to answer at length). Perhaps if the answers had been what the OP had wanted to hear she might have responded.

[Wendy]

Yes KathyC, well, I think shows like Living the Dream have an awful lot to answer for. They always end 'happily' dont they?. I agree that many families do find the answer to their dreams here but there's still a good number who wouldn't I'd say. There was a show that featured english families moving out to Australia, various cities, and it was a lot more honest. Several of the teenagers from those families returned to the UK.

[Val_2]

I agree with you both. Obvously the poster dosn't want to know the real truth of french living from those of us who have been here for a long time and had kids go through the system. I believe many are forcing their kids to live THEIR dream,not what the kids want and it can only end in tears for all concerned. I know several local families,all french and they are having problems getting their 14-16 year old's through collège so what hope do some of these british kids have as Lycée is a whole new and brutal ball game in most cases.

[Lori]

I seem to see it happen rather often - posting and then never coming back.  Maybe the OP is out of town, who knows, but the same thing happened in the Legal section recently when a poster questioned the Visa procedures, got lots of very relevant replies and never posted again - at least not to this point.

My husband was moved from his home country to the U.S.A. when he was 16.  He spoke no English and was sent to "live" with relatives.  The idea was to better his education and therefore job opportunities.  Those two things did happen, however, if you ask him, he will tell you it was one of the worst experiences of his life - really hard to adjust.

 

[Russethouse]

>>I believe many are forcing their kids to live THEIR dream<<<

I agree - for a 16 year old I think it is particularly hard,especially when so many people see moving to a completley different type of location as a big plus.

 

[Cohiba1961]

I tend to agree with the last point.  We moved here in 1983 and our then 9 year

old boy took a long time to settle.  We

had to change schools twice.  He is now

settled and fluent in French and very happy but whenever we ask he ALWAYS says

he wants to go ‘home’.  For a 16 year

old it would, quite frankly, be a nightmare…. Unless of course he could speak

French and did not mind missing the occasional bath…

 

As for opportunities, work wise or uni wise he would be

better off in the UK….  Far from what

many would have the world believe there are some nice kids in the UK and you

don’t need to emigrate for the sake of the kids.  Remember in France unemployment is 12% and in rural areas can be

as high as 22%….  Now if that was the UK

we’d have shot the PM…… 

 

Most people out here are hiding from something…. Many on

second or third marriages trying something new….  Like others have said to you… and with respect…. Don’t do what

YOU want and pretend it is for the kids. 

Moving to France is a very big deal and many, many people regret it when

it is too late to go back.

 

Bamber

[Just Katie]

I think that most parents want the best for their children but when they go into a dreamworld of a new life their judgement can easily be clouded.  I know, I am one of the worlds dreamers.  However, when you bump back to reality most people weigh up the feasibility of their plans and conclude they were living in cuckoo land. 

Four years ago, I decided I would move to France this year, when my son had finished his GCSE's and send him to international school for the equivalent of A levels and my daughter, 2 years younger could stay behind a year in state school to become fluent in French.  What planet was I on? 

My children have found their place within the hierachy of their peers and feel comfortable in their surroundings.  Teenagers are very fragile beings behind their 'am I bovvered' attitudes and I believe as a mother such a move could have a detrimental effect on their future lives.

My plans have now changed to moving over when my daughter has finished her degree.  However, when I get to that year they may both feel orphaned (as was the case with Trescos boy) or there maybe grandchildren........ OMG will I ever get there?

I really do hope the OP has also had the reality bump.  It was really hard entertaining my 16 year old son this year on holiday.  He can bugger off to Ibiza next year!

[Lori]

Well said Katie.

[Just Katie]

When my children were small I was dreading the teenage years but to those with spotty gawky darlings in your lives arent they just the best and most amusing years?  They also come in handy.  I have started having my daughters cast offs.  Wayhayyy payback time!

[Just Katie]

By the way, what I hate about spotty gawkies is they are nocturnal and decide to chuck you off the computer just as lovely people like Tresco turn up.

Sorry got to go now just been told by a 14 year old that it is past my bedtime and her turn to go on MSN.  Better do as I am told then.

Nite Nite.

[Lori]

Katie - practically the same in this house.  Tis a very fun age to watch.  Not sure if it is the best as there are still years to come !

 

[Just Katie]

Hello Lori and thank you for your comments.  My daughter got ready for school yesterday.  She came out of the bathroom looking like Danny La Rue.  A face full of muck which ended on her jawline and a white neck.  She is a little waif and so pretty I just burst out laughing. 

When she came downstairs she caught a glimse of herself in the mirror (which I made[:)]) in the kitchen and she gave herself a shock as by then she had forgot she had it on. 

She then gave me a look of bemusement and a smirk, ran upstairs and came back down as her beautiful normal self with just a sweep of lipgloss (coca cola flavour) which gets instantly licked off and reapplied.

When we got to school there were millions of Danny La Rues loitering about (looking cool[8-|]). 

"Oh look", I said, "That's how you looked earlier". 

"OMG mam, promise me you will never let me walk out of the house looking like that".  Phew, sigh of relief because I know if I had told her to remove it she would have turned into rebel without a cause (played by Danny La Rue)

[Tresco]

Re: the comments about the OP not responding - there could be so many reasons for that. We all make our choice as to whether to get involved (by replying to queries) or not. I don't mind that the OP hasn't got back to us, because the questions prompted some very interesting comments.

I am starting to understand how a child who has barely started learning to read fluently before moving countries will (hopefully) easily adapt and learn the language of the new country, both written and spoken, but that all the talking in the world will not teach them how to communicate in their 'mother tongue' in the written form.

This means that for many children the claims of 'my child/children will be bi-lingual' and the claim implying an advantage in the emplyment market, are a bit exaggererated, or perhaps not thought through? I understand that for a 'good' job or, say, access to higher education good written language would be needed too?

To me this indicates that if one is justifying the move of, say a 5/6/7 year old to France with the 's/he will be Bi-lingual' argument/rationale, then one would have to be prepared to back that up with solid extra English Language teaching?

I had never thought of this issue before. Very interesting.

 

[hastobe]

[quote user="Lori"]

Not sure if it is the best as there are still years to come !

[/quote]

It gets worse!!  Someone once said to me that nature has to make you hate your child and vice versa in order for them to be truly independent as an adult - and having just 'come out the other side' of this experience with my eldest I would heartily concur.  Thankfully we now get on well - but a lot better when we are not in each others pockets!

My point is that children at 14, 15 and 16 are very different than at 19 and 20.  I agree about moving a child against his will at age 13 to 18 (when, imho, they too young to be left behind / be independent but are too old to adapt easily).  While they are under 18 they are still growing up and need stability and constant parental input, once they are over 18 then the situation is different.

We felt it was our prime responsibility as parents was to ensure they became independent of us - i.e. that they didn't still need us there 24/7 at age 23.  That is not to say that by ensuring they learned 'responsibility' I neglected my kids - far from it! I have been there for all my children as they have been growing up - have worked part-time so that I can be there after school etc etc.  However, I certainly have not wrapped my children in cotton wool - they could  all cook a Sunday lunch at age 12, have walked themselves to school from age 8/9 and are responsible and independent. As children, we were all brought up similarly and had all left home before we were twenty, had travelled extensively and independently by that age and were quite capable of looking after ourselves (i.e. could cook, wash iron, knew what to do with a toilet brush and a washing machine etc).  In short we really were 'grown up'. There seem to be so many children nowadays who appear 'grown up' but have just enjoyed freedom without learning responsibility. 

Personally, we have decided not to make the move until they are all over eighteen.  Before that and we screw up their lives for the sake of pursuing our own dreams - but after that we have our own lives to live.  We will make sure they are settled and we will always be there if they need us - but we will not put off our own lives indefinitely for them. Certainly, for my daughter (age 20) it won't be an issue - she is already arranging a three month placement (in her final year at University) to Australia with an option to move their permanently.  Hopefully, my two sons will be similarly independent by then.

Kathie

[Lori]

Katie - very funny story.  We lived a similar first day here, only the face bit was acceptable with a bit of mascara and lip gloss.  I think daughter had already seen the clown faces on a few last year and didn't want to be in their company.  You were very wise to deal with it the way you did.  Lucky for you (and your daughter), it worked out well in the end.

Kathie - Considering how tough some of the previous years have been (daughter turns only 13 in March), I am confident the little "easier period (now)" will pass back to the "tough times" at some point.  Sounds like you and your lot turned out pretty well.  I hope we do too.

 

[thelimetree]

Hi Tricia

We came when our daughters were 16 & 14, the 16 year old went to school here for a year, just to learn French and now does her A levels in the UK staying with family.  If she stayed in France she would be in a class of kids 3 years younger, as you can't start your bac until your french is good enough, so you go back a year and maybe repeat a year too.  Can your son not stay with his dad in the UK?  Also the way they teach here is very boring, not as interesting as the UK.  Your 10 year old will be fine.

hope all goes well

Sarah

 

[Just Katie]

Kathie, that is exactly my school of thought.  Sometimes I consider giving up though as I cannot remember how many burnt offerings have been given to the dog.[:@]  But we will get there in the end.

 

[KathyC]

Kathie

Yours was the most sensible posting about parenting that I've read for a long time. You must be so proud of your kids. It seems to escape many people that a parent's main role is to help their children into adulthood and independence . Some people take a pride in their adult children's dependence on them but I feel that having adult children living at home well into their twenties (and even thirties!) is the sign of an unfinished job. This is particularly the case when many parents don't expect these children (?) to pay for their way, do their share in the house or behave considerately. It's easy to see this situation as being a sign of affection but I wonder how many of these overage kids would still be there if they were paying their full share of the outgoings and having their adult freeedoms curtailed. I expect some people will shoot me down on this but I see so much of it and I think that the effects can be disastrous.

[hastobe]

[quote user="Just Katie "]

Kathie, that is exactly my school of thought.  Sometimes I consider giving up though as I cannot remember how many burnt offerings have been given to the dog.[:@]  But we will get there in the end.

[/quote]

Elder son's latest exploits in the kitchen are home made beefburgers...a la Charlie.  He added sun dried tomatoes and basil to the beef and then put a lump of mozzarella cheese (sp) in the middle - which seemed to be working fine until the mozzarella melted...and leaked - so next time he wrapped the mozzarella in the basil leaves - very creative I thought.  Still had the same mess in the kitchen after though [;-)]...

KathyC - unfortunately I married one of those incompetent at thirty types - I am determined my three won't be like that....I'm still trying to explain to my other half the purpose of a loo brush twenty years on - and for someone who is so mechanically minded its amazing how the washing mashine and other electrical appliances still completely fox him [;-)]....

Kathie

[DZ]

[quote user="Just Katie "]

I think that most parents want the best for their children but when they go into a dreamworld of a new life their judgement can easily be clouded.  I know, I am one of the worlds dreamers.  However, when you bump back to reality most people weigh up the feasibility of their plans and conclude they were living in cuckoo land. 

[/quote]

I sat there quietly, reading the exchanges and pndering day and night... I have to say that the post I quote from (and the majority of the others) have convinced me not to live in the cuckoo land, and so I have decided that the only way to go forward is to stay in the UK and let our teenagers get on with their education.  Might be the right decision, might be totally the wrong and unadventurous one - but it certainly shows the Power of the Forum!

Yours, still dreaming of living in France one day...