romazy Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 As most members will know the New regulations for Fosse Septique, bac a graisses etc come into force this year. How many are aware of this and the implications to existing installations. As I understand it the Fosse has to meet the new regulations or be modified so that they will meet the regulations. I also understand that there will be grants available (up to 50%) of the cost of meeting the new regulations subject to meeting your Commune regulations.Everyone in our commune has been offered a free assessment of our existing installation through the Maire in the usual excellent French way.Anyone out there know more about this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 What you have said is basically correct. However, like most things here it all takes time and money, neither of which is in great supply currently with everything else going on in the country. Locally here, inspections started on outlying properties back before the summer and the householders had to pay a rédévance of 40€ first. Nothing has filtered back to us on the council about the inspections, I get to hear from friends and colleagues who have had visits. Here we are more worried and concerned about our existing station d'epuration and all the boue it is currently being forced to treat with all the newhomes going up and we know that our three communes which it serves have to cough up millions of euros along with the prefecture and state to build a new one and people's septic tanks are the least of the worry currently. It is true that all Permis de Construire applications will be subject to the drainage being inspected and if it is not correct, that will have to take precendence before any building work is allowed to commence. Again, like everything else here, each Dept works in different ways and no two seem ever to agree on anything and how it should be done. As regards grants of 50% towards installations and re-installations,this is a touchy subject and as of yet we have had no applications come through to agree to,plus there is no spare money anyway and the householder will probably find it is means tested against his last tax return as is the way here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Paul, Debbie and Josh, <BR>London & Dept 24<BR><a target=_blank href="http:www.les-brandes.net" target=_blank>http:www.les-brandes.net<A><BR><P> Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Had an interesting chat with an immobilier friend the other day about the Fosse Septique at our place (Dept 24).He said that the property is only 15 years old so the tank should be OK & that in our area they haven't even started the inspections yet his guess is that to get round everyone it could take "may be 10 years" !! I think it's a case of just go with the flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 In one of the discussions I read on this someone asked how you could be forced to pay out on a new installation, if the present one works and you have no plans to build. The only reply that came up was that if the outflow was causing pollution to eg a water course there is legislation that covers this and they could take you to court. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddie Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Our fosse is probably only 4-5 years old. It seems all the waste goes into it (apart form rainwater) both kitcten and bathrooms. There is what someone referred to as a "regarde" but I have no idea if there is a grease trap. Is the "regarde" (about a further 5 meters on from the fosse heading down hill) the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 PatfQuite right. The point is that a law has been passed which brings in a periodic, and chargeable inspection. If the Fosse fails its inspection then it clearly isn't working correctly (aux normes) and an improvement notice can be served. End of arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Paul, Debbie and Josh, <BR>London & Dept 24<BR><a target=_blank href="http:www.les-brandes.net" target=_blank>http:www.les-brandes.net<A><BR><P> Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I have no doubt they will get to us eventually, I think we will make sure there is some contingency cash in the bank just in case.. If your worried I'm sure it would be possible to get an inspection done privately - you may have to pay but at least you would get a head start on having it fixed or at least to start squirreling a few € away towards the repairs..Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CFrost Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 The article in January’s French News states that ‘About 90% of the sceptic tanks throughout France do not comply with them (new regulations) but all are legally obliged to be brought into line by the end of 2005 ….’ It goes on to quote the requirements and an average cost for the job of €6000. My fosse would fail most of the requirements and because of the lay of the land etc I imagine putting it right would cost all of the €6000 – and the pool has to be fenced this year ....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 With respect to French News (I happened to buy the Jan issue, and also read the piece), their articles are not always 100% accurate.I have no particular reason to say this - having no more knowledge than anyone else about the new fosse septique laws (except to be glad I saw ours being installed and had the foresight to take a photograph of the tubes before it was filled in!). But sometimes I have read pieces in FN that I *have* known a bit about, and thought "Hmm, they haven't got that *quite* right..."Based on this, I am crossing my fingers that every house in rural France will not have to have its existing fosse exhumed and replaced within 12 months. Surely there could not be enough registered fosse-installers in the country to accomplish this? So perhaps we don't have to panic as much as FN is implying.One of our village councillors told me that our particular hamlet is going to be a problem anyway, because seemingly the subsoil is rocky - so we may even have to have a "fosse collective" somewhere more absorbant... And as Val2 says, there is no money in the village coffers to finance all this.We had to provide the Mairie with drawings of the layout of our fosses a couple of years back. My neighbour told me that six months ago someone came round with a clipboard to check the existing installations, but that he just walked around writing "non conforme" against every one; he certainly didn't do any great investigations. Mine was installed about 13 years ago, and takes everything but the rainwater, so I would have thought it *did* conform (and for what it's worth, I have those photos!). But you know the French - whatever they say will be right in the end... I think one just has to sit tight and see what transpires... Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I think one just has to sit tight and see what transpires...In which case I guess that you have a Fosse Sceptique..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Nice one, BJSLIV ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky France Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I have to confess to being totally confused about this subject. We requested an Etude du Sol as part of our house-purchase contract, which we have now recieved. I had, however, expected an assessment of the existing set-up (i.e. a tank no older than 5 years but without a soak-away). Unfortunately, all I have in the document is a plan for a totally new system, which would involve digging up the road in front of our house, and I have no idea what this would cost. The existing tank seems to work although it will need regular emptying so do I have to install a brand new system or not????? Our estate agent also informed us that checking in our area (56) would probably not start until at least 2006 but that once it had started the fosse manufacturers would probably increase prices so we would be better off installing a new system sooner rather than later!!! I did, by the way, still manage to get a cert. d'urbanisme for the adjoining barn of the property despite having an "old" fosse.Does anyone really know what is going on? I just cannot believe that everybody with a fosse will just install a new (expensive) system - not everyone has the money or the space on their land!!I remain in the dark...Nicky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romazy Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 A little more information, I don't think that the new regulations require a new fosse (unless you have a fosse mort) the regulations cover the outlet liquid and this will be regulated by the local water company. The soakaway pipes need to cover a larger area, this has a basic cost of 6000 euros.Romazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprob Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Maddogwoman, our builder refers to the Inspection Chamber, (access), as 'the Regard'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Just done a search to see if there's anything official to go by.Here's a sitehttp://www.cstb.fr/dos_presse/fichiers/DP33_06_00_RTF.rtfI don't know what body the CSTB is; I was intrigued also to note a reference to an organisation called SPANC (Ah, quelle deception! Just seen elsewhere that it's the distinctly prosaic "service d'assainissement non collectif"!) Something herehttp://www.maire-info.com/articles/archive.asp?param=1956that seems to say it's not so critical for communes of fewer than 2,000 inhabitants.This sitehttp://www.ademe.fr/partenaires/Boues/Pages/chap12.htmgives some diagrams, specially on pagehttp://www.ademe.fr/partenaires/Boues/Pages/f12.htmAh, this looks more officialhttp://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F445.htmlAs far as I can make out from a quick glance, the communes just have to officially *think* about it by 31/12/05...Or this site, of the Senat (so one assumes it's the most authoritative),http://www.carrefourlocal.org/vie_locale/ministres/assainissement/1008.htmlsays that communes have to have their *collective* systems conforming to the norms by that date, but no mention of the individual ones (our cherished fosses septiques).and onhttp://www.carrefourlocal.org/vie_locale/ministres/assainissement/23501.htmlsays that it's the "competence" that has to be transferred to the Maires by Dec 2005. Sounds as if that means that from then on the Maires will be responsible for having the expertise to judge the state of people's installations?Can't believe it! On this sitehttp://www.intercommunalites.com/competence/a_comp2511031.htmit appears that two organisations involved seem (almost) to be called spick and span: "...Premièrement, la notion de « service rendu » propre aux SPIC - le service ne pouvant être effectivement facturé aux usagers qu'après avoir été rendu - pose le délicat problème du financement des premiers exercices du SPANC..."This seems by far the most authoritative, however:http://www.carteleau.org/fmenu5.htmFAQs on everything to do with water... Click on "Assainissement non collectif" and you find almost every question you ever wanted to know about. It includes something that I think came up slightly garbled in the French News piece. Did they say the fosse had to be 35m from the *house*? Well here it says it has to be 35m from a well or from an area of "water used for human consumption*.Oh, and I now realise that I have to describe my own installation as a "fosse toutes eaux" rather than a fosse septique. http://www.carteleau.org/faq/q01.htmand if you click on the link to the circulaire, you can see what has been sent round to the Prefets (gosh, who'd be a prefet, huh?)Oh dear - too much information. My head's spinning.Bonne lectureAngela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 There seems to be some double standards going on here or at least different priorites. In my region (62) there are many, many houses with only a merde masher and discharging the waste into an open ditch which, apart from the health hazard, gives some places that characteristic bouquet, especially in hot weather. Fortunately this is not the case anywhere near me (sorry to be a NIMBY). There are regulations in force for everyone to be on mains drainage or Fosse Septic by the end of this year. There were supposed to be grants but this ran out ages ago. So, the result is that everyone who is prepared to install a fosse is encouraged to do so - no survey, no plans, nuffink! In fact I know someone who quite litteraly got a spade, dug a big hole and dropped in a Fosse from M. Bricolage and did the whole lot for around 400 euros. Now I'm sure this is all 'non-conformé' but hey, if all the installations are being catagorised like this, what's the difference? I am extremly fortunate to have an installation that seems to have a stamped inspection cert - so if there's a problem I shall wave this and look dumb!Saw a builders van yesterday with the name 'PLONKA' proudly emblazoned on the side - can't see too many Brits using their services .......Pierre, back in a cold and foggy Luxembourg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Paul, Debbie and Josh, <BR>London & Dept 24<BR><a target=_blank href="http:www.les-brandes.net" target=_blank>http:www.les-brandes.net<A><BR><P> Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 "Saw a builders van yesterday with the name 'PLONKA' proudly emblazoned on the side - can't see too many Brits using their services ....... " I think I've had them do some work for me before !!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Do they come from Peckham by any chance? Tall thin one,short middle-aged spiv and one old ex-matelot with large white beard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David584 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 And is the van a yellow three wheeler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Why do I get the impression that no-one believes me ??? I'll try and get a picture! It seems they are a German outfit and this is their website http://www.plonka-gewaechshaeuser.de/ My appologies if this constitutes advertising - definitely not my intention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Paul, Debbie and Josh, <BR>London & Dept 24<BR><a target=_blank href="http:www.les-brandes.net" target=_blank>http:www.les-brandes.net<A><BR><P> Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 No Pierre, quite the opposite, its very funny that they are called Plonker, such a good British word as well.. On that note, there's a company of Indian Sikh builders in London who have a great motto on their vans."You've all tried the cowboys, now try the Indians", always makes me laugh to see a good sense of humour. I'd employ them just for the motto !!!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 [quote]No Pierre, quite the opposite, its very funny that they are called Plonker, such a good British word as well.. On that note, there's a company of Indian Sikh builders in London who have a great mot...[/quote]I was at Centre Parks in the UK many moons ago and met a family, the husband was called Richard Head. I did not think very much of it until I saw his van, Dick Head, builder, underneath was his full name. You have to have a USP to be in business and get passing traffic - his was eye catching (like the cowboys and indians one) and made me remember him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 [quote]No Pierre, quite the opposite, its very funny that they are called Plonker, such a good British word as well.. On that note, there's a company of Indian Sikh builders in London who have a great mot...[/quote]Paul,I would like a euros for every van that had that on when we lived in London many years ago. Once we saw the first one we saw several after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Just to go back a bit nearer to the original topic here ...in the 1970s, when we had a house with a "fosse étanche" (cess-pit) that needed emptying regularly, the guy who used to turn up with a tanker to do the dirty deed was called Arsène Crépeau. (Well, it used to make us laugh at the time...)Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouf Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Last time we visited our French property spoke with the maire about this very subject. He just shrugged his shoulders and continued with the beer we had given him. Our fosse septique is over 25 years (+) old and we know we have a soakway that goes into the farmers field, which he seems OK with.He has some sheep in the field with apple (cider) trees. However, would we need to change this if, for example, he sold the land and someone built a house there? Or would this soakway prevent anyone from building a residential building.Many thanks,Jon27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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