UK Licences

[Kiraude]

I've heard via a friendly local gendarme that they will be cracking down on UK licences for permanent residents here.

If you have been permanent for over a year, your UK licence is 'invalid' requiring you to sit the test here .. you should change it prior to the end of the first year.

But beware. If you want to keep your licence with the ability to drive a trailer/caravan and loads up to 7.5 tons then you'll need to go through a fairly simple medical every 5 years. Otherwise you'll have a regular French licence without the ability to tow or drive anything over 3tons (or do I mean tonnes?!)

It's a simple process and well worth doing, taking a test in France costs around 2,000€ with all the lessons, code etc!

[Mpprh]

Hi

I'm sorry I don't think this is correct, and hasn't been for 10+ years (I left UK in 1990 so have seen many changes).

Here is the current EU position :

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Directive 91/439/EEC of 29 July 1991 on driving licences ("second driving licence directive") is governed by two major principles: to facilitate the free movement of the citizens of the Community and contribute to the improvement of road traffic safety.

With regard to the free movement of citizens, Directive 91/439/EEC introduced the principle of mutual recognition of driving licences issued by the Member States. This principle repealed the obligation of exchange which had been established by Directive 80/1263/EEC ("first driving licence directive"). The ninth recital of Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates explicitly that the obligation to exchange driving licences within a year in the event of change of State of normal residence constitutes an obstacle to the free movement of persons and is inadmissible in the light of the progress made within the framework of European integration.

It also adapted the Community model driving licence which had already been established by Directive 80/1263/EEC, in order to facilitate comprehension and the mutual recognition of licences by the authorities of the Member States.

With regard to road safety, Directive 91/439/EEC harmonised categories of driving licence

conditions for the issue of a driving licence

minimum ages for the various categories

driving tests

minimum standards of physical and mental fitness.

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Here are the current areas of discussion :

http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/home/drivinglicence/principles/006_en.htm

You can read lots more EU stuff about this here :

http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/home/drivinglicence/index_en.htm

Peter

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Don't know where you are Kiraude (Aude ?) but we were also tipped the wink that a general hardening of approach to matters motoring concerning foreign nationals was to be adopted in 2005. We're in Vendée, and we've got at least one English speaking gendarme on the strength here now. When I say English speaking, I mean flawless.

[Will]

If you ask our prefecture about changing to a French driving licence they give you a choice - you can either have a French licence or a copy of the EU document to show to the gendarmes, because the prefecture recognises that les flics aren't exactly au fait with the true position, most of them preferring to apply old French laws rather than the new-fangled European stuff. Some of them no doubt think the guillotine is still a valid punishment for offenders .

Mind you, the same prefecture issues a card with a new titre de sejour (for those of us who want them or need them) saying that you must change to a French driving licence within a year of the titre de sejour being issued. Though I think this is an old card, and anyway, of course, that requirement still applies to the non-EU citizens who probably form the majority of new titre de sejour issues.

In view of some other topics here, it seems the English-speaking French police would have quite a fruitful time checking up on the insurance, MoT and UK road tax of UK-registered vehicles on the French roads.

[Quillan]

Funny enough I was talking to our local guy at the rugby on Sunday about this very same thing as I keep hearing different stories so I thought it might be a good idea to ask the horses mouth as it were.

If you have the latest licence, thats the credit card job and a seperate green paper you do not have to do anything as it is legal in any EU country and there is no requirment to change to a French one even if you are a resident.

If you have a non credit card licence then you must change to the new id you are now resident in France (you can do this before you come of course or if you still have a UK adress it can be send it to).

I understand if you do change to a French one you have to pass a towing test to tow a caravan even though you had it on your old UK licence. I think you also loose the right to drive a 3 ton ridgid lorry but I'm not sure on this.

[Kiraude]

Interesting .. I was initially asked/told by a friend who is at the Commissariat in Carcassonne early in the summer to make sure I get it changed. I did so. I've just been told by a friend (was at limoux, now narbonne station) that they're cracking down .....

Quillan ... do you mind me asking who you were talking to? Was it Proust? The old guy with the big grey moustache who's often out on his gendarmes bike????

The towing test I was never asked to take ... but I now have a full French licence, with 7 tonnes and towing capabilities ...

[Quillan]

[quote]Interesting .. I was initially asked/told by a friend who is at the Commissariat in Carcassonne early in the summer to make sure I get it changed. I did so. I've just been told by a friend (was at l...[/quote]

No not the old guy, he would book his own mother given the chance.

Tall thin guy, don't know his name but when on duty he wears a couple of strips and is based in the Gendarmarie in Quillan (not to be confused with the Police). I got my tempory Carte Grisse when the wife washed hers from him, nice guy and used to play for Quillan (so I'm told).

[Alexis]

Well, as I wrote on the other thread about this, I went to the Prefecture in Vannes and asked once more for them to change my UK licence for a French one and they refused.  Still many years to go apparently.  I have a bit of paper with a stamp on.

Mine is the old bit of paper.  If stopped the flic do question it but it is stamped by the Prefecture .....

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Oh heck - I'm still confused. We were given to understand (admitidly this was a fair while ago) that new style credit card licence or not, our driving licences MUST show the address at which we are claiming to be resident. Since we were no longer resident in the UK we had to have a new licence, and since the DVLA won't issue a licence for a foreign address, it had to be a new French licence. The fact that we could simply exchange our licences without having to pass a test was presented to us as being consistent with the EU directives of Freedom of Movement.

[BJSLIV]

I suspect that both points of view in this debate are partially correct.

Taking my cue from mpprh's comment that the rules have been harmonised, and accepting thatll know that French harmonisation can sometimes be slightly out of tune, I went to the DVLA site to check the UK rules, which state:

Visitors:

If you hold a valid Community licence and you are visiting Great Britain, you can drive any vehicle for as long as your licence remains valid. The appropriate full entitlement of the vehicle you wish to drive must be covered by the categories shown on your licence.

Residents:

If you have a valid Community licence, this will authoriseyou to drive in this country for the periods set out below.

Alternatively, you can apply to exchange your licence for a British one at any time.

Provided your licence remains valid you may drive in Great Britain –

Ordinary licence holders – until aged 70 or for 3 years after becoming resident whichever is the longer period.

Vocational licence holders – until aged 45 or for 5 years after becoming resident whichever is the longer period; If you areaged over 45 (but under 65) until your 66th birthday or for 5 years after becoming resident whichever is the shorter period. If you are aged 65 or over for 12 months after becoming

resident.

In order to continue driving after these periods, a British driving licence must be obtained.

In other words you must eventually change to a UK permit a set period after becoming resident. Isn't that what the French system demands? 

As long as you are a visitor you keep the UK bit of paper, but when you become resident then you will have to cahnge shortly after.

Sorry about mix of Fonts   Must Dash!

 

[David584]

Or if you check the French Embassy website it quotes this:

Exchange of the British Driving Licence in France

According to the European Community Directive (91/439/EEC), since 1 January 1997 British Nationals taking up residence in France for more than a year do not have to exchange their British licence for a French one anymore.

However if British Nationals wish to do so, the request must be done at the "Préfecture" of your place of residence. The issuing of a French driving licence implies the withdrawal of the national driving licence, which is sent back to the issuing authority (Driver & Vehicle Licensing Authority).

[Kiraude]

Just to add to what I've started.

If you don't have a home in the UK (or an address) then how will your DVLA licence be legal??? That in itself in the UK, if not changed within X-many months of moving is worth a £1,000 fine!!!

[BJSLIV]

And hence the distinction between visiting/working in France  (ie maintaining a UK Address) and Resident in France (No longer a UK Address) . Or is that too simple?

[Chas]

[quote]Just to add to what I've started.If you don't have a home in the UK (or an address) then how will your DVLA licence be legal??? That in itself in the UK, if not changed within X-many months of moving...[/quote]

I queried this very point with DVLA a couple of years ago and posted their response on the "old" forum. Unfortunately I no longer have the Email. However the sense of their response was that it was not possible to have a foreign address on a UK licence and that they accepted that people living permanently abroad may not have a valid UK address on their licence.

[Richardbk]

[quote]I've heard via a friendly local gendarme that they will be cracking down on UK licences for permanent residents here.If you have been permanent for over a year, your UK licence is 'invalid' requiring ...[/quote]

Unfortunately not only does your local friendly gendarm not know European law, he doesn't even seem to know his own French law - I have posted a while back the update Articles of the Code de la Route, that were introduced at the same time as the EU directives became operable.

However, it doesn't surprise me since few gendarms seem to know anything about the law, particularly the non-penal 'codes' and least of all when it come to dealing with international agreements etc.

regs

Richard

[Richardbk]

In other words you must eventually change to a UK permit a set period after becoming resident. Isn't that what the French system demands? 

NO! What is important is the validity (expiration date) of the license. This is the only criteria for making a change, other than commiting an offense.  It is planned that eventually all EU licenses will have  expiration date of 5 years - but this is still some way off and is unlikely to apply to existing licenses. When(if) this happens the licenses will have to be renewed in the country of residence.

Moreover, The UK DVLA has recognised that its rule about having the correct UK address is inconsistent with the EU directive and hence DVLA are obliged to accept that if you live in another EU country you will have the wrong address. If you search the archives there is even a copy of the standard DVLA letter for this.

Once again under EU law and ,in terms of DVLA implementation in the UK and in terms of the French Code de la Route (also previously posted) you do not need to change your license.

The only reason you would be obliged to change are if you commit an offense and/or there is for some reason a date expiration of your license.

regs

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave&Olive]

I think you will find if you have the "new style" licence you actually have 2 the credit card one is the european licence hence no british address and you green sheet british licence with your address. so effectively 2 licences 1 for the uk and 1 for europe

[Quillan]

The paper bit has you offences on and has to be carried with you even in the UK as well as the vredit card bit. My credit card bit has the EU flag on it.

[Iceni]

Both bits of my UK licence have an incorrect address.

After reading these posts I feel a trip to the Prefecture coming on. It seems a typically French prob - as in "I don't care what the Brussels directives say, we have our own rules which btw vary from street to street but I won't tell you what they are".

Cynically, John 

[Patf]

We have uk/eu licences with our uk address on them and are not yet technically permanent residents in France. What would happen if we committed a driving offense in France eg caught by a speed camera? Would the french authorities enter the offense and penalty points on the paper part of the licence as in uk? Pat.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Prefectures can supply an attestation of the validity of a UK license to keep the gendarmes happy. This is free.

You can change your UK license to a French one if you want to at a cost of 52euros; this must be done while the license is valid (photocards being valid for ten years only); this must be done if you lose points.

Patf, what do you mean by "technically permanently resident"? Don't you spend more than half the year here? The gendarmes should require you to change your license for a French one if you incur penalty points.

[opas]

We changed our UK licences after being in France about 6 months..went to the Maries office for advice, she sent off our licences with all the completed paperwork (to the prefecture?) received French ones about 6 weeks later ..free of charge, with all relevent classes.

Just for the record Mr O changed his because it looked like 6 scraps of paper(torn along all the folds) and became embarrasing when applying for HGV jobs, and me because didn`t want to take the chance of having to take a test again if the rumours were true!!

[I1]

With regard to trailers, the UK law is changing/changed to comply with the EEC directives (and thus be consistent across Europe). If you are not familiar with the new rules see http://www.dvla.gov.uk/forms/pdf/INF30_020702.pdf.

However, does anybody know that, if you change your licence to a French one, do you lose tha right to tow trailers or not.

Also, has anybody "lost" their photo licence, ordered a replacement (supposedly easy) and swapped the replacement for a French one, thereby actually having both licences ?

[I1]

[quote]The paper bit has you offences on and has to be carried with you even in the UK as well as the vredit card bit. My credit card bit has the EU flag on it.[/quote]

A bit of an aside, but I still have an old paper licence (so don't know about these new things). Have the UK really issued a credit card style (convenient) licence and them make you carry around a bit of paper as well ?

[opas]

As I previously stated,both mine and Mr Os licences came back with all relevant classes stamped at the side of the category...ie motorbike, car, psv ,towing trailor etc