French People and Their Dogs

[Logan]

I enjoy living in France for many reasons. One part of that is the relaxed attitude the French have to life in general. They have a system of priorities. A inherent philosophy of what is important and what is not. It's the way you live your life and your attitude to those around you which is important. I don't think the French think that dog poo is any more pleasant than Brits do. The difference is in their attitude to it and the scale of importance in the scheme of things.

The Brits come to live in France because they sense a more tolerant and relaxed society. It's possible that tolerance comes with more personal space and the fact that folks don't live on top of each other. However once here they seem to want to impose their own cultural values and scales of importance. In shorthand there's a desire to make France more like Britain. This can of course never happen but the British it seems to me are in danger of trying to tear down the very thing they came to France to seek.

This thread is about doggy poo but I suspect it's really about much more than that.

[Tourangelle]

Totally disagree. I understand many people on this forum live in the countryside, but that doesn't mean that it is all country living here, far from it. I wouldn't claim to live in "the real France", but more people live in cities than they do in the country and certainly if you live in a city you live very much on top of people, more so I would say than in the UK because many more people live in flats. To say France is more relaxed and tolerant and that people don't live on top of each other may be true is some parts, but it is not the reality of every day life for most people living in here. Why is there this constant assumption from some that we are all running b&bs or renovating a ruin out in the Limousin?

I don't think the original poster was putting dog dirt at the top of her priorities in terms of things to worry about, but preferring not to have it in one's garden hardly seems unreasonable.

[YCCMB]

In a bizarre coincidence, the following happened to me in the UK only this morning:

Each day, I walk our dog in the local park, where I meet the same set of dog walkers. The park provides special bins and bags for collecting dog poo, and we all use them daily. This morning, I was later than usual, so missed the group of people I usually see, except for one couple, who came over specially to tell me to avoid one area of the park, where another "regular" had just discovered her dog rolling about in what turned out to be HUMAN poo!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread leads me to wonder whether it could have been another person's way of retaliating ?

(very sadly, I think that the reality may be more to do with the sudden arrival of a couple of caravans on a nearby piece of land during the night)

Jane

[Georgina]

[quote]Totally disagree. I understand many people on this forum live in the countryside, but that doesn't mean that it is all country living here, far from it. I wouldn't claim to live in "the real France"...[/quote]

Correct Tourangelle, I know i have to put up with it elsewhere. It's just the kids, I can even cope with the odd stray dog, it's just when people walk past knowing their dog is doing it in my garden.  They know it is not very nice, because they walk straight past.  I am not talking about the odd one by the way, the other day I cleaned up 5!!!

I do not wish to impose my values on the French people at all but I think I put the safety of my children before anyone or anything, as I am sure do the majority of the French.  My poor friend (French) has to put up with this in the playarea of where she lives. It is covered in it.

Having been educated as to the potential problems caused by the stuff, I cannot immediately undo it.

I have decided that I shall just say "shoo" in future (to the dog not the French). Or would they be offended by this?

Georgina

[Georgina]

[quote]I enjoy living in France for many reasons. One part of that is the relaxed attitude the French have to life in general. They have a system of priorities. A inherent philosophy of what is important and...[/quote]

"This thread is about doggy poo but I suspect it's really about much more than that."

Actually Logan, you are completely wrong, it is about POO.   My French neighbour told me of someone (French) who actually posted the stuff in someone's postbox.  So someone else is not that relaxed about it.

Georgina

 

[letrangere]

 

I enjoy living in France for many reasons. One part of that is the relaxed attitude the French have to life in general. They have a system of priorities. A inherent philosophy of what is important and what is not. It's the way you live your life and your attitude to those around you which is important. I don't think the French think that dog poo is any more pleasant than Brits do. The difference is in their attitude to it and the scale of importance in the scheme of things.

The Brits come to live in France because they sense a more tolerant and relaxed society. It's possible that tolerance comes with more personal space and the fact that folks don't live on top of each other. However once here they seem to want to impose their own cultural values and scales of importance. In shorthand there's a desire to make France more like Britain. This can of course never happen but the British it seems to me are in danger of trying to tear down the very thing they came to France to seek.

This thread is about doggy poo but I suspect it's really about much more than that.

One of the most astute observations I've read on this board in a long time, worthy of a separate thread in fact.  Although we may share common values, different nationalities do have different priorities, and this diversity is, for me at least, a major part of the pleasure of travelling and living abroad.  Tourangelle's right when she points out that not all Forum member's French experience is a rural one but even where people don't have much space at all, such as Paris, I still observe wide variations in outlook and priorities. 

Coincidentally, somewhere this week I read of an international survey whereby representatives from a couple of dozen different nationalities were asked what angers them and to what degree.  It transpired the British get wound up to a greater extent on more issues than any other nationals.  Subjects included talking to an electronic answering system, mobile phones in restaurants and, the almost inevitable (must have been a British study) queue jumping.

M

[Russethouse]

The observation about British expectations may be correct and worthy of discussion, however I think allowing someone elses dog to increase your childs chances of toxicara, on your own property is taking 'going native' to new heights, come down from your lofty perch Logan -

"the parasite toxicara which can cause blindness if swallowed. Although the parasite can be found in cats, its main host is the dog, and its eggs, which can remain viable for up to 2 years are found in dog's faeces. If the faeces are left in parks, paths, verges, sandpits or play areas, they can be picked up on shoes, children's hands, the wheels of pushchairs, wheelchairs etc. It may take weeks or months after swallowing these eggs for symptoms to develop which can last for a year or more and include one or more of the following: headache, fever, sore throat, aching limbs, abdominal pain, sleep disturbance, listlessness, pneumonia, asthma. Eye symptons are not always present although blindness resulting from toxocariasis affects around 100 people a year and may develop 4-10 years after the initial infection. The main group of people at risk are children who play where irresponsible dog owners have allowed their dogs to foul without clearing it up afterwards. Fortunately the disease can be controlled if the faeces are disposed of immediately in a responsible manner."

I would plant the thorniest Berberis and Pyracantha you can find ! The Coco chipping mulch is poisonous to dogs and you justifyably put up a notice saying that you have used it - beware. In the blurb for the recycled rubber mulch it says that it has a smell which dogs and cats do not like......www.dunweedin.co.uk (perhaps its also available in France ?)

[Logan]

This threat of disease is a bit of a red herring although I accept the scientfic basis. Most responsible or even irresponsible dog owners worm their dogs annually. Once treated the infected dog no longer excreates the worm. To suggest all dog feces are a threat is misleading. It is also misleading to suggest most dogs carry the worms. Mine certainly don't and in the locale where I live I have not noticed other dogs with the problem. If you examine closely dog feces you can clearly see the thin white worm, rather like tiny noodles. Once excreated from the animal I believe the life of the worm is limited. 

[Christine Animal]

My very first post was about tolerance in France and I agree with Logan and MWJ's comments.

Administrator Russethouse you surprise and disappoint me.  Did you know that dogs can't read?

As for poisonous mulch, I prefer not to comment. 

Christine 

[Georgina]

[quote]My very first post was about tolerance in France and I agree with Logan and MWJ's comments. Administrator Russethouse you surprise and disappoint me. Did you know that dogs can't read? As for poiso...[/quote]

I despair!!!!! Obviously you do not have any children - do you choose to ignore the facts.  It's not the dogs that are a problem, it's the owners. I really love dogs and would not hurt them.

Georgina

[Russethouse]

Christine - I would never hurt an animal- I am not trying to poison the dogs - just make the owners behave responsibly. (Its the Coco mulch which could be a problem - the rubber stuff just has a scent that dogs and cats are not supposed to like)In fact I suppose you don't really have to do it - just say you have ) I have had problems to do with other peoples animal excrement on my property - we didn't take it out on the animals but took it up with the owner.(like responsible people )

Logan, what do you want Georgina to do - ask the owner of each poo-ing dog if its been wormed ? Lets be practical.

What I think is the red herring is your assumption that attitudes to this problem divide into French / English - it doesn't - it divides into responsible and irresponsible dog owners.

[Christine Animal]

Georgina, the fact we mention tolerance does not mean that everyone has to put up with dog poo everywhere, but being aggressive about it is maybe not the best way to tackle the problem.

Perhaps you could see the school director, along with some French mothers who feel the same way, and explain the problem and ask if it is possible to either clean the playground or make it dog tight. The same goes for neighbours who let their dogs stray, it is far better to call round with a smile and explain, rather than dumping it on their kitchen floor (as someone else suggested).

[Tourangelle]

I don't think that people who let their dogs do that on other peoples' property deserve such consideration.

[Logan]

The percentage of dogs who carry the parasitic worm referred to previously is very low. Most pet owners as I have said before annually give their dogs tablets as a preventative measure, not because they have the worm. It is the same with the annual injection against distemper, rabies etc. French dog owners do it as a matter of course to keep their documentation up to date. There are of course exceptions. Even farmers worm their cattle regularly so I assume they will also treat their dogs.

Point is Russethouse the risk to children is relatively very low in real terms. I accept some people (especially the British) find dog excrement offensive. The last time I was in Britain I was surprised to see so many signs everywhere threatening prosecution and fines if your dog fouled in the street. Neighbours inform on neighbours and the dog***** police come around. This is not a joke this actually happens. Therefore I am not being disingenuous in saying the British have more of a problem with this subject than the French.

If you think Russethouse that I inhabit a lofty perch perhaps you should consider climbing up there since it might give you clearer view. However strangely I find my feet are firmly rooted on the ground.

[Teamedup]

There is a grave problem in France.

 

http://www.terrace.qld.edu.au/academic/lote/french/chiens/dogprobs.htm

[Russethouse]

If the risk is so small why do you think councils in the UK have spent thousands of pounds on making dog free zones in children's playgrounds etc ?

Or do you think that UK dog owners do not all worm their dogs and French dog owners do ? Human nature being what is I suspect the people who are happy to let their dogs foul in someone else's garden are also the ones who are not worried if the worming is up to date.

Whether the faeces contain the worm or not would you really let your dog foul a children's playground?

Right at the start of this thread it was stated that French people dislike it too - it comes down to being a responsible and considerate dog owner.

I don't think there is any need for unpleasantness but a polite and firm request to the owner of the dog, pointing out that you have childen to consider may be all thats needed.

[Christine Animal]

C'est super TU! What a site you have found.  Everyone can see about the problem and learn French at the same time.  We all know it's a problem, the problem is how to deal with it.

Any suggestions?  Within tolerable limits of course...

[Teamedup]

It isn't just going blind is it, and as it is faecies I'm pretty sure that it will have some nasty bacteria in it too.

Let us just get down to it, it is dirty stinking mess and people slip on it and hurt themselves too. I remember my son being a member of a roller hockey club. He skated out of the gym and rolled on some of this stuff, as it was dark he couldn't see it. The stench as he got in the car had me wretching. And what a filthy job it was cleaning his rollers.

Do I like it. No and I don't have to. Suggestions, there will be no nice way of getting people to be responsible.

 

 

[opas]

I certainly would not examen a strange dogs poo to decide whether the said poo should stay or be cleared up...the fact of the matter is that dogs should not be allowed to stray and do their business and the owners should be brought to task, It makes matters worse when the owner has the audacity to stand with the pooch on a leash and let it dooda in the middle of your driveway! Whoever it was who mentioned calling round and having a word with the owners are having a laugh, If they cared two hoots for their pet ,it would be on a lead when out and the mess cleared up......It does occasionaly happen and I have been agog to witness it!

Mrs O

[Christine Animal]

I don't want to get into a big argument, but sometimes people in the country don't realise that their dogs are doing what they are doing in other people's gardens.  They sometimes think they are just doing their little tour and coming home.

When we moved here there was an elderly man behind us, a charming, kind and very discreet neighbour, in a wheelchair, and unfortunately he is no longer with us.  His two dogs, who he loved, were always loose, they never bothered anybody, and sometimes came round to our place as they had certainly always done.  They sometimes left little visiting cards, but we never bothered about it, and I'm sure their owner never realised this.  Had we gone, in a pleasant manner, to tell him it was bothering us, I am sure he would have been very embarrassed and would have tried to shut his dogs in.  That is all I was trying to say.

[Teamedup]

Christine A, that is the other thing, dogs out alone. For all we have a dog, and it is quite big now. I am terrified of dogs. I daren't take mine out for a walk in case we come across one who is out alone.

There really is a lot involved in all this keeping a pet lark. And I just believe that if anyone wants a pet, they should be responsible and that is that. No one should have to walk in dog crotte or be attacked by a dog wandering around, believe me they know when someone is scared.

[Georgina]

[quote]Georgina, the fact we mention tolerance does not mean that everyone has to put up with dog poo everywhere, but being aggressive about it is maybe not the best way to tackle the problem. Perhaps you...[/quote]

I have not been aggressive about it, what are you talking about?? Please read the posts properly.  I was asking how I could put it without "putting my foot in it". The question is what to say without causing offence.  So yes, please tell me what you would say.

As regards school, the French parents beat me to it anyhow and got it cleaned up and they already have a notice not allowing dogs near the school.

Georgina

[Missy]

[quote]There is a grave problem in France. http://www.terrace.qld.edu.au/academic/lote/french/chiens/dogprobs.htm[/quote]

Very interesting site!!

Another menace I noticed being mentionned in the photos : that of TOWN pigeons!

I avoid Trafalgar Square and any such places where they are in enormous flocks!

To me they are nothing more than flying rats! Every flap of their wings spreading fleas and whatever else.

No owners there to keep them in check with the necessary sanitary requirement which the vet advises when one owns a dog/cat or other animals...

[Turnip]

If you know the person who owns the dog responsible for the dog*****, and polite discussion about the matter meets with indifference, then one could consider bagging the dog***** and making a present of it to the dogs' owner.