Evidence of insurance

[allanb]

I'm trying to understand current regulations about the so-called "green cards" and I have a question about UK practice.  (I've lived outside the UK for quite a long time.)

If, as a UK resident, you buy an ordinary motor insurance policy from a UK insurer, what kind of insurance certificate do you get?  Is it the international "green card" format (as issued automatically in France, for example) or is it still the domestic certificate, valid in the UK only, which I remember from many years ago?  Or does it vary from one insurer to another?

What I would like to understand is why there is such a fuss about green cards in the UK.  If a UK policeman is trained to accept an international insurance certificate ("green card") issued in Portugal or Greece or Slovakia, why shouldn't he accept one issued in the UK?  

[AnOther]

You still just get a piece of paper which says 'Certificate of Insurance' there is no prescribed format as in France or other parts of the EU. It's validity is whatever cover you bought from the particular insurance company plus, by EU law, minimum legal cover in all EU countries and a few outside that. A green card is only really useful as convenient proof of insurance which, for obvious reasons, the UK certificate may not be very good at doing in a foreign policeman's hand [Www]

Is there a fuss about green cards in UK ?

AFAIK UK insurers do not issue green cards for domestic use.

[Anton Redman]

" If a UK policeman is trained to accept an international insurance certificate ("green card") issued in Portugal or Greece or Slovakia, why shouldn't he accept one issued in the UK?   "

The are not witness the problem in the Irish Republic where they are in hot persuit of a driver called Prawo Jazdy

[AnOther]

Priceless [:D][:D][:D]

[allanb]

[quote user="AnOther"]Is there a fuss about green cards in UK ?[/quote]Well yes, that's the point of my question.  Why do UK insurers insist on you getting a "green card" if you want to take your car to another country?  Why not just issue your insurance certificate in the international format in the first place?

For a French resident there's no such thing as a special insurance certificate for use in other countries.  The same is true for residents of several other countries I know about.  Why is the UK different?

I'm not blaming anybody personally - I just wonder whether there's any reason behind it, or whether it's just the UK being deliberately difficult.   

[Pickles]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="AnOther"]Is there a fuss about green cards in UK ?[/quote]Well yes, that's the point of my question.  Why do UK insurers insist on you getting a "green card" if you want to take your car to another country? [/quote]

They don't. Not for the last few yonks, anyway.

[quote user="allanb"]Why not just issue your insurance certificate in the international format in the first place?

For a French resident there's no such thing as a special insurance certificate for use in other countries.  The same is true for residents of several other countries I know about.  Why is the UK different?

I'm not blaming anybody personally - I just wonder whether there's any reason behind it, or whether it's just the UK being deliberately difficult.   

[/quote]

A Green Card is only issued these days by UK insurers for cars that are to be driven outside the EU: they are not required within the EU. UK Certificates of Motor Insurance carry on them, in several languages, the statement that "the insurance evidenced by this Certificate of Motor Insurance extends to include the compulsory motor insurance requirements of (a) any member country of the EU (b) Switzerland, Norway, Iceland ...."

Regards

Pickles

[AnOther]

[quote user="allanb"]Why do UK insurers insist on you getting a "green

card"[/quote]Did they ever insist ?

As far as I remember from the days when I used to get one for trips abroad it was entirely optional.

[quote user="allanb"]Why is the

UK different?

I'm not blaming anybody personally - I just wonder

whether there's any reason behind it, or whether it's just the UK being

deliberately difficult.[/quote]Probably closer to the latter because insurance companies make money out of issuing green cards to the vast majority who haven't yet realised that they are largely pointless and unnecessary.

I still don't know what you mean by "such a fuss about green cards in the UK". Who is making the fuss ?

[Keni]

When we come over to France for our holidays, we just have to tell the insurer what dates we will be driving abroad, they make a note and I bring my usual piece of white paper - the so-called Certificate. We are apparently covered the same as at home - a lot of drivers though only seem to have 3rd party insurance when driving abroad, unless they have specifically told their insurance company they are going!

Our company says you must let them know what dates you are out of the country for them to update the information. That is all.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Keni "]a lot of drivers though only seem to have 3rd party insurance when driving abroad, unless they have specifically told their insurance company they are going![/quote]A bit of a wild assumption, have you actually polled a 'lot of drivers' ?

Each company seems to have it's own rules but as a rule I think you'll find that with most UK comprehensive

policies you get x number of days abroad without having to tell anybody

anything. If full cover did hinge on telling them beforehand then that would mean that you could never decide to jump on a ferry after business hours or for the weekend on a whim without being at risk.

As always though, read your policy or if unsure - ask.

[allanb]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="allanb"]Why do UK insurers insist on you getting a "green

card"[/quote]Did they ever insist ?[/quote]Yes, they did - but perhaps I'm older than you.  To be precise, they didn't force you to get one, of course, but they insisted that you needed one.

Anyway, I concede that "fuss" was an exaggeration, and thank you for the information about current UK practice.  But there is still a fair amount of misinformation and dubious advice about green cards from various sources, including some in the insurance business who should know better.

It seems clear that the effect of the Directives is that you don't need any form of insurance certificate in order to cross a frontier within the EU.  To the best of my knowledge, the Directives don't remove the need to produce evidence of insurance in other circumstances, e.g. if you are involved in an accident.  In fact the Third Directive says this:

Member States shall adopt the necessary measures to ensure that the parties involved in a road traffic accident are able to ascertain promptly the identity of the insurance undertaking covering the liability arising out of the use of any motor vehicle involved in the accident.

In plain English, you'd better be able to produce satisfactory evidence of insurance.

So I think the situation is this:

If you are resident in France and have a French motor policy, the rule about not needing a green card is meaningless.  To get to another country you have to drive through part of France, where the Code de la Route requires you to carry your insurance certificate - which is the green card, apart from the little bit that you cut off and display on your windscreen.   So you shouldn't leave home without it, no matter where you're going.

If you are resident in the UK with a British policy, you shouldn't have any problem if you can produce your UK certificate, provided that the policeman who demands it (a) understands it, and (b) agrees that it's just as good as a green card.  Being pessimistic by nature, I see this as the problem.  I agree that your chances are better if the certificate is printed in more than one language, but you still have to hope that the policeman is up to date with his EU directives and knows that what he was taught about green cards is no longer valid.

(What I said about France is true for some other countries as well, by the way - I can't provide a full list, but I suspect they are actually a majority in the EU.)

Personally, if I lived in the UK, I would get a green card.  Why not?

[Sunday Driver]

The [url=http://www.mib.org.uk/Customer+Services/en/General+Cross+Border+Information/FAQs+Green+Card.htm]Motor Insurer's Bureau[/url] website provides some useful background to the green card scheme.

 

 

[Gardengirl]

Our insurer doesn't give green cards, nor did our previous one. We travel to France and back regularly through the year, and have cover for up to 90 days for any one trip. We carry all our insurance documents with us, and have not yet been stopped. I suppose the test would come if we were stopped, but if green cards aren't provided, nothing can be done. I'm not going to be losing sleep over it, but then I'm a member of the insomniac's club already!

GG

[Iceni]

[quote user="allanb"]

If you are resident in the UK with a British policy, you shouldn't have any problem if you can produce your UK certificate, provided that the policeman who demands it (a) understands it, and (b) agrees that it's just as good as a green card.  Being pessimistic by nature, I see this as the problem.  I agree that your chances are better if the certificate is printed in more than one language, but you still have to hope that the policeman is up to date with his EU directives and knows that what he was taught about green cards is no longer valid.

[/quote]

Why not photocopy your ins. cert. onto green paper ?

John

[Martin963]

I've dredged this thread up as I'm wondering much the same thing.

Our present insurers  (Cornish Mutual) provide up to 60 days "free"  (ie included) continental cover,  but any further periods have to be paid for by the month.   As we spend several months in France in the summer this has cost us quite a bit each year.

We're now thinking of moving to Saga who provide "unlimited" cover abroad (in the EU) but don't issue any sort of green card.

So my question is

Has anyone had any trouble persuading a gendarme that a British Certificate of Motor Insurance is sufficient to show cover abroad.

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

[NickP]

Martin , On the back of my policy it states that this certificate is evidence of a motor insurance policy which satisfies the compulsory motor insurance requirements of any member country of the European union. The notice is in French/German/Italian/Spanish.

A couple of years ago I spoke to my insurance company about issuing green card and they said "it's not necessary" I asked how long I could use my insurance abroad and they said "well there is no limit, but if you are going to be abroad for more than 90 days, give us a ring and let us know." I have been stopped by the Gendarmes a couple of times including being Breathalysed ( Brilliant, I hadn't had a drink for two days[:D]) and they have never asked to see my insurance or even my driving licence.

[Martin963]

Thanks NickP.

Indeed,   we don't stay for more than 90 days at any one stretch for reasons that are no doubt self-explanatory.

Saga's stipulation was six months maximum for any one trip abroad.   So we should be OK.

But you can't be too careful with this sort of thing.

I've never been breathalysed;   you must have had a good smug feeling as you blew into the tube!!!

[AnOther]

At the risk of stating the obvious all motor insurance policies written in the EU by law include minimum cover for that required by law in a country you are visiting and, as NickP says, this would normally be stated on the certificate therefore, unless your policy actually expires whilst you are abroad.....

you will never be uninsured for 3rd party risks.

The 30/60/90 day period granted by your insurance company is simply the duration of the extension of your voluntary cover, i.e. comprehensive, if you exceed the allowable days then your insurance does not become invalid but simply reverts to the minimum.

[cooperlola]

When we still lived in the UK (nearly six years ago now), Direct Line always issued us with a "green card" when we travelled abroad, which included a Constat Amiable.  This has always been my only proviso about the "automatic insurance" thing - what happens if you have an accident and don't have a Constat to fill in?  Does it cause a problem if you don't have a blank?  I tried to test this out for myself but was sadly unconscious so still don't know....

[mint]

[quote user="cooperlola"] I tried to test this out for myself but was sadly unconscious so still don't know....[/quote]

Oh, Coops, the least you could have done was to have stayed awake!

[cooperlola]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="cooperlola"] I tried to test this out for myself but was sadly unconscious so still don't know....[/quote]

Oh, Coops, the least you could have done was to have stayed awake!

[/quote]I tried.  I was in fact awake when they chain-sawed the roof off my car (I remember saying "ma pauvre voiture" over and over and trying to pursuade them that they could get me out without destroying the poor little mite) but then they pumped me full of morphine and that was that.  You get a ride in a helicopter and you're asleep... typical!

Still don't know about the Constat though....

[AnOther]

[quote user="cooperlola"]You get a ride in a helicopter and you're asleep... typical![/quote]Standard procedure Coops, take it from me you missed nothing [blink]

Re the constat, well apart from the high likelyhood of the other guy having one AFAIK filling it in is not a legal requirement, it's more a convenience for the insurance companies, but if the parties fail to see eye to eye on what happened or who's fault an accident was, or as in your case, are simply unable to do it, in it's absence all it means is that there will be wrangling and wriggling between the insurance companies to try and shirk their respective liabilities.