UK Pensions.

[Mr Wiggy]

For many weeks I have been reading and hearing about our UK pensions, firstly that the Crone plans to tax our pensions, yet we had been taxed on our pension contributions from our weekly wage/monthly salary, now I read that some of the expats may not be paid their rightful pensions by the UK government if a no deal situation should arise. How do we all stand on this matter?

[YCCMB]

Actually, NI contributions and private pension contributions are deducted before tax, so no, you haven't already paid tax on them.

[woolybanana]

I think the non payment of pensions refers only to private pensions.

[mint]

Wooly, why would you think that?  Expand and explain, stp[:)]

[andyh4]

It's complicated Mint and to be fair also far from clear.

Because insurance and services look to be outside of any Brexit deal - or no deal - insurance companies may/will not be able to sell their products into the EU. This is seen by some - including some insurance companies - as also meaning that they may not be able to make payments on their products (annuities) into the EU.

[nomoss]

I'm sure they would still be able to make payments into a UK bank.

In any case, I receive payments into my French and Spanish banks from entities outside the EU - are the EU expected to make a special ruling against UK entities?

[idun]

In the UK the current tax free allowance is £11859 + £1190 is a spouse is not using all theirs.

Anything over that is taxed at 20%.

French pensioners don't get their pensions for 'free' either, and they have all the nasty CSG's etc to pay unless they are really poor.

[andyh4]

I agree nomoss, it makes no sense to me either. However my pension payments (which also come from outside of the EU) are not an annuity. They are from an investment portfolio and that may make a difference.

For the OP and just to clarify: the issue of pension payments, if there is an issue, is with regards company and private pensions covered by insurance company annuities. They do not relate to the state OAP.

[woolybanana]

Yes, andy is right; state pensions of all knds seem to be ok, but the private pensions are those threatened. But, no panic, press speculation, parlimentarypoints scoring etc may make it sound worse. Doubtless the governent is on to it.

Here is a link not from a newspaper:

https://www.blacktowerfm.com/news/497-expat-pension-payments-may-stop

[nomoss]

"Any expats concerned by the prospect of being left with no pension

payments should be reassured that it's unlikely the British government

will leave their citizens in such a difficult situation."

Oh yeah?

[YCCMB]

My F-i-l had a small pension from his native Holland

Pre-EU. He managed to receive it just fine.

I'm confused as to how it's now perceived unlikely

that nothing can be done post-Brexit. Possibly people

may not be able to nominate a French account to have their pensions paid, but it's not as if the monies will be somehow forfeit or confiscated.

[andyh4]

My understanding is that it is to do with passporting rules for financial and insurance businesses.

Now most banks will have offices within the rest of the EU and would not be a problem, but most insurances companies (who handle the vast majority of private and company pensions via annuities) will not.

If you pension does not result from an annuity (which I think may be a very British thing) then as far as I have seen there will be no problem.

So when making comparison with what happens now or what has happened in the past, it is important to see if the payment was being made from an annuity (possible problem) or from a different form of investment (almost certainly not a problem).

[KO12]

How much can one rely on the BlackTower financial services company when they refer to Nicky (Nicola Ann) Morgan as 'he'??!!

Remarkably, she raised this almost a year ago:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/news-parliament-2017/brexit-pensions-insurance-17-19/

The Chancellor's response (for what it's worth): https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/treasury/Correspondence/2017-19/Correspondence-chancellor-brexit-insurance-contracts-200917.pdf

The latest is referred to in this news story: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-ex-pat-pensions-illegal-retired-eu-europe-theresa-may-a8461166.html - it is based on the HoC Exiting the EU Committee meeting of 24 July.

The transcript of that meeting is not yet available but the recording is here: https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d6f9fdd4-aabe-47cc-b5a8-6bc4d0babe41 - I have not yet watched it all but from about 9.50 Evans's comments are certainly relevant (albeit nothing definitive because there can't be!).

[Doodle]

Have a look at this as it is a good explanation IMHO. Sorry don't know how to make it live!

https://unitedinbrittany.com/topic/pension-payments/

Mrs KG

[andyh4]

Thanks for that link Mrs KG. It is better to see a concrete example from a pension provider than all of the third and fourth hand reporting from myself and others.

[nomoss]

As I said earlier

[quote user="nomoss"]

I'm sure they would still be able to make payments into a UK bank.

[/quote]

So just another storm in a teacup to appeal to the overly worrisome[:D]

[woolybanana]

KO12,, I chose that company because their description of the situation seemed short and coherent which is it.

[YCCMB]

And, on the subject of taxing pensions (as mentioned

In the OP), this article mentions some of the possible

logic.

news.sky.com/story/sky-views-brace-yourself-tax-increases-are-coming-11450728

Can't say I'm enthused by the prospect, sandwiched as I am between those who have reached pensionable age and those who had their pensionable age snatched from them, but if the younger generation will enjoy none of the benefits being enjoyed by their elders then I see an argument for levelling the playing field a bit. Interestingly the comments about Labour's ideas on taxing the rich points out a bit of an issue: there just aren't enough rich to fill the gap.

[Mac]

[quote user="nomoss"]

As I said earlier

[quote user="nomoss"]

I'm sure they would still be able to make payments into a UK bank.

[/quote]

So just another storm in a teacup to appeal to the overly worrisome[:D]

[/quote]

Glad you think so. My husband's pension provider couldn't say for definite IF his pension could be paid even into a UK bank account as they had no communication from the government and had no details of any discussion. And the company in question is huge and covers many different pension providers.

[idun]

mac, that sounds bizarre, odd, strange, and I could go on.

Why would they worry about where you were when paying your pension to you, people move all over the world and not just to an EU country and I am pretty sure that they will get their pensions.

I agree that pensions could get difficult, ie and this is my opinion, the state ones. And I shall have to keep our eye on it, because if the french start messing us about, we will move back to France.   Ofcourse the non state french pension is also linked to french state pensions, so for us, it could get more than difficult.

To be seen, I am flexible enough to move on if I have to, but frankly, I would prefer not to.

[Jako]

[quote user="idun"]people move all over the world and not just to an EU country and I am pretty sure that they will get their pensions.

[/quote]

Only if there is some sort of deal between countries. No deal Brexit actually means no deal and financial transfers between the EU and the UK are impossible without a deal in place. The old deal expires on 1/4/2019 at 00:00 hours CET because the UK ended it.

[andyh4]

I do not think that that is the case Jako.

Many banks are based in the UK and the EU and I am as certain as I can be that Brexit under any form will still allow transfer between their branches.

I have payments made today from outside the EU into my French bank account and no problems - except the fees.

The problem raised by the OP relates purely to pensions organised as annuities by UK insurance companies who do not have a base in the EU as well (probably most of them.)

[nomoss]

I think the only issue regarding pension payments from the UK is that it will probably cost more to send them to France, and they may have to be paid first into a UK bank to minimise transfer costs.

[idun]

[quote user="Jako"][quote user="idun"]people move all over the world and not just to an EU country and I am pretty sure that they will get their pensions.

[/quote]

Only if there is some sort of deal between countries. No deal Brexit actually means no deal and financial transfers between the EU and the UK are impossible without a deal in place. The old deal expires on 1/4/2019 at 00:00 hours CET because the UK ended it.

[/quote]

I do not believe that that will happen, the whole of the financial services would be in turmoil, y compris, in the EU.

[EuroTrash]

It's unthinkable that no arrangements would be in place for financial transfers, even for a short period. But I don't suppose the UK will still be in the SEPA arrangement, and it's a safe bet that bank transfers will cost more. Let's hope that Transferwise doesn't decide to up its charges.