Can unemployed British people claim the RSA?

[NormanH]

I always thought that the RSA was only for people who had worked in France, or had been born here, but having been told of a chap who lives locally and has just claimed ( successfully he claims) I started to ask myself the question.

According to this

http://www.rsa.gouv.fr/Quelles-sont-les-conditions-d.html

it looks possible, and trying the test of eligibility I came up with 411€ for a single person with no other income.

If this is correct, it rather drives a coach and horses through the argument about 'inactifs' not being allowed to stay so as not to be a burden on the French state...

Can anyone see any holes in my reasoning?

[cooperlola]

Hmm. I had always understood, as you had, that this was not possible - at least until one had been here 5 years, after which time the member state is obliged to treat an EU citizen as its own in Soc Sec terms, afaik.  There is an "ATTENTION" paragraph - at which time I guess the applicant should be referred to the Free Movement Principal which states that one cannot be a burden on the state for those first five years. .

On the other hand, is the second link assuming that one has worked at some time in France since it's all under the RSA umbrella and it's made clear that this is for those who have worked in the earlier pages?

I'm just musing here but it's interesting.

[Val_2]

I would think there is more to this than meets the eye. His circumstances may be something he has not divulged to friends but only to the authorities or even wrong info. I don't think it is awarded willy nilly to everyone who applies for it without a fair bit of investigation first.

[Pickles]

[quote user="NormanH"]I always thought that the RSA was only for people who had worked in France, or had been born here, but having been told of a chap who lives locally and has just claimed ( successfully he claims) I started to ask myself the question.

According to this

http://www.rsa.gouv.fr/Quelles-sont-les-conditions-d.html

it looks possible, and trying the test of eligibility I came up with 411€ for a single person with no other income.

If this is correct, it rather drives a coach and horses through the argument about 'inactifs' not being allowed to stay so as not to be a burden on the French state...

Can anyone see any holes in my reasoning?[/quote]

From the site that you linked to, it says that in order to receive RSA, yopu have to meet certain conditions:

CONDITIONS DE REGULARITE ET DE DUREE DU SEJOUR

Les ressortissants communautaires et suisses doivent remplir les

conditions de droit au séjour. Les étrangers hors espace économique

européen doivent justifier d'une résidence régulière en France non

interrompue depuis au moins cinq ans (sauf situations particulières). 

The conditions governing the right to remain in France are detailed in the pdf document below

www.gisti.org/IMG/pdf/norimim1000116c.pdf

and the actual law is here

It would seem to me that this requires people to support themselves for 5 years before being eligible for RSA

Pickles

[Sunday Driver]

'Inactives' must have own resources at least equal to the amount of RSA thereby disqualifying themselves from claiming.  However, after five years legal residence, the resource condition no longer applies and they become free to make a claim.

Note that since the introduction of a new immigration law in July of this year, inactive EU citizens who do not meet the required resource/health insurance requirements lose their right of legal stay and the authorities can order their removal from French territory...[:-))] 

 

[NormanH]

[:@]Well I know he has owned a house here for about 10 years, but only used it very occasionally. it was bought from another English alcoholic (who has now died of drink) for the equivalent of €7000

So occasionally that it was squatted, then the front was burned by a car set on fire (yes that's the sort of area we live in)

He phoned from England to ask the local Mediator to have it boarded up, but still was away for another 6 months.

He has now applied for a council grant to repair the property and says that he has just been told he can have €7000 for the façade, as it was burned (but of course he hadn't insured it!)

If he has spent a year here in those 10 years that is a generous estimate.

I think he has probably claimed that he has spent all the 10 years  here, but how he explains that he has never filled in a tax return I don't know.

I know he has  asked for a Carte Vitale, and now the RSA, but was previously working in a factory in the North of England and living in a council flat, just coming over from time to time.

He tells me he has an English speaking advisor at the CAF

It galls me to see this sort of abuse (as I think it is) when there are plenty of people worrying them selves sick about their health cover and how to manage.

I asked the question because I wondered if I had misunderstood the regulations, but I think that fiddling is the most likely answer.

[:@][:@][:@]

[Val_2]

Maybe he is lying,senile or living in fantasy land. No way would our maire or any other official here give money to a property owner to repair a façade that was damaged( and he should have had insurance anyway) without it being an official loan with interest agreed by the council for the payback, there would be a huge outcry from the locals if they discovered this. I don't believe any of what he has told you because I know for a fact that even the CAF will go through everything thoroughly and demand copies of previous avis d'Impôt before anything else.

[pachapapa]

...Maybe he is lying,senile or living in fantasy land.... sounds just like our maire.

[lou lou]

Yes

as EU citizens after been in France for 3 months and can demonstrate a permanent link to France ie you live there you can claim RSA.

It is mainly for those on low incomes due to starting up a business (like a B&B with no customers as its new) to top up their income to the 'minimum wage' level in France. You can earn while on this benefit and the amounts of RSA are adjusted to keep it in line with the minimum wage. If you earn under 500 euro's you get the full amount of RSA.

[Chancer]

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[idun]

Words also fail me.

So my only comment is also

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[tinabee]

[quote user="idun"]Words also fail me.

So my only comment is also

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[/quote]

ditto

..

[cajal]

Silly old me.  Until I read this I always believed RSA stood for Royal Society of Arts.

You live and learn.

regards

cajal

[Chancer]

Thankfully this remains a benefit that has to be requested and many are either unaware of its existence when they may have need of it like I was or who dont want to claim something they dont believe they deserve which is my current position. I cannot stop the taxe d'hab exoneration or the electricity tarif de premier nécessite but given that I have never had so much money coming in I really am aghast to learn that I would currently get the RSA were I to ask for it, maybe I am being a fool but I lived on far less per month during the darkest days so why would I deserve it now when I have far more than that coming in?

 

You see the figure of €500 per month is actually €1724 per month of income from gîtes or CDH because the notional expenses Under revenues non Professional BIC are 71%.

 

According to the previous posting recieving gîte income of €1700 for each of the last 3 months would mean I would qualify for an extra €514 per month [:-))] and this corresponds with the amount that the simulateur said I would get.

For a couple with 2 children the amount would be €1080 [:-))]

 

Nice work if you can get it n'est ce pas?

[EuroTrash]

If the income suggests that your business is nothing more than a hobby, your application can be refused (looks like it has been noticed that Brits have been using this loophole)

http://social-sante.gouv.fr/fichiers/bo/2013/13-09/ste_20130009_0000_p000.pdf

[lindal1000]

People cannot be excluded from any benefits just because they are British..so yes, British people who fulfil the same criteria as demanded of French citizens are eligible for the same benefits. By grace of filling in a tax form we were automatically given a reduction in our tax d'habitation and I was given prime d'emploi . Now we both have registered enterprises and so are not classed as inactive. There are plenty of British people claiming RSA.. and from what they say they have to prove things such as income, savings, property ownership etc. I'm sure there are some that fib but they do risk quite harsh penalties if they are caught. On French news last night they were comparing the rates on unemployment benefit in France with those of other European countries and France is one of the most generous (the Uk is one of the meanest). It's amazing how many people believe the propaganda that the UK is the benefits haven of Europe, whereas in fact France, Germany and Holland are far more generous.

[EuroTrash]

"People cannot be excluded from any benefits just because they are British" - that's exactly what the circular is saying:

"Cette position est la stricte application de la jurisprudence européenne qui accorde au ressortissant communautaire exerçant une activité indépendante un droit au séjour à la seule condition que cette activité soit réelle et effective, à l’exclusion d’activités présentant un caractère marginal et accessoire. "

so anybody, whether French or non-French, who declares a few thousand euros a year as a business income, could be refused RSA on the ground that it is not a viable business.

[Chancer]

TBH I hope that Lou-lou was wrong and that something went wrong with the simulation that I did, the RSA for me as a single adult without dépendants is €540 per month, it would make much more sense and what I really want to believe is that if i drop below that during the winter months then they would top my earnings up to that level not automatically give me €540 per month as soon as I dip Under €500 per month, the 71% abattement making €500 into €1700 is an abberation.

 

In any case for me its nothing but a mental exercise, I have no intention of claiming it, for others getting back on their feet and starting a new business it seems a very sensible benefit regardless of their nationality, I still despair at and cannot understand this Brit bashing by other Brits who are better off.

 

Its also a little suspicious that a first time poster to this forum should resurrect a thread that had not been posted on for several years, they may have used the search forum but what was their motivation?