Capricorn beetles

[rands]

we are just about to buy some property in Aubusson and have found that there are capricorn beetles in the beams in the barn.

It is not too bad at this stage however has anyone else come across these and if so what treatment did you use??

In addition to this the land is covered with thistles has anyone got any tips for getting rid of these?

thanks

Paul

 

 

 

[Pepsimax]

We discovered that we had the capricorn beetle in the roof of our house and barn and at first were told that they were treatable. Unfortunatley this was not the case and we have had to have the whole roof replaced. We were very disappointed at first but the macon has done an excellent job on the new roof. We now have enough wood to keep us going for a few years for our stoves. When we cut the capricorned wood we could see the extent of the damage they caused and it was a sight. We suggest that your macon has a good look at it.

[zeb]

Are these the same as death watch beetles?

regards........helen

[Pepsimax]

We read about them after making some enquires on the internet. I don't think that they are like death watch beetles but they do create large holes in the timber.

[WJT]

Very interesting, we also have a heavy infestation of Capricorn that we discovered after we bought our house in Dordogne and worried us no end when we discovered it (we can hear them munching away).  We have had several people out to quote on the treatment and have been told that Capricorn is not that serious and that they only eat the outside of hardwood not the heart so do not cause serious damage. We have even been told by a few of the locals that they would not even bother treating (must be an English trait not to want to live amongst insects munching away at the house). The quotes we received are quite expensive around €4,500 for the house and an outbuilding of which they have to actually inject a solution in the wood itself to make it undesirable to the beetles.

We definitely want to treat but just haven't felt that it was urgent enough to pursue at the moment. I am really surprised to hear that someone has recommended to replace a roof because of Capricorn. Again, the specialist's we had to come out had it in their interest to cause concern but every one of them were very nonchalant and said it was not serious.  Would be interested to know if your roof was some sort of soft wood like pine.

[Chris Head]

The capricorn is a serious pest and has a vicious appetite, and yes it does very much enjoy munching the heartwood. I don't have enough in depth knowledge to offer very much more except to say that it needs to be taken very seriously and eradicated quickly and effectively.

Chris

[Joh]

 

 

 

http://www.pays-de-bergerac.com/english/businesses/framo-treatment/activity.asp

 seem to have lost the picture!

 

Hope this helps to go a way to solving your problem.

Terry

 

[WJT]

Chris, I don't understand then why 3 separate companies that provide the service and gave us quotes (at least two of them, one didn't bother) to rid Capricorn told us that they do not eat the heartwood and are not serious in so much as causing serious damage to hard wood and the structure of the house.

[Chris Head]

WJT,

I don't understand why either, but I have seen capricorn beetles here on two seperate occasions when I was having timber sawn. On both occasions the beetle was at least 3 inches into the heartwood (Oak) and was immediately noticed by Dominic, my sawyer, who swore profusely and stamped on them. Old oak is very hard and I would be suprised if it was an environment that the Capricorn beetle would be happy with, but like I say, I don't know enough about the subject to be definitive enough for your needs. However, I do back up my previous statement, it's not at all good to have Capricorn in your timbers, they are entirely capababe of affecting the structural integrity of important timbers.

I know of at least one person who is looking in here who has expert knowledge and who rarely posts, perhaps they could help?

Cheers, Chris

[brian-limousin<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>brian-limousin<P><P>When you are in a hole - stop digging<BR><A class=authorlink href="http:" target=_blank><A><BR><P>]

I agree entirely wiith what Chris says, whatever any of your tradesmen may say, if you have ANY type of insect or animal that bores, eats, gnaws or infests your timber, take steps to eradicate them asap - they are not doing any good whatsoever.  As yet, I have little direct knowledge of insects, and their ways in France, but from previous experience elsewhere, they do a lot of damage if untreated.  Not trying to talk down to anyone, or give "expert" advice, but prevention is better (and far, far, cheaper) than cure.

Brian

[brian-limousin<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>brian-limousin<P><P>When you are in a hole - stop digging<BR><A class=authorlink href="http:" target=_blank><A><BR><P>]

Extracted this info. These will make big 'oles in yer wood.

GREAT CAPRICORN BEETLE —The larva of this beetle spends the greater part of 3 years in­side an oak tree. When fully grown it is 2 1/2 inches [6.35 cm] long and 5/8 inch (1.59 cm] wide. Blind, weak, almost naked, and completely defenseless, the little worm burrows here and there in the oak. Year after year passes, yet that little fellow always knows never to go near the outer part where woodpeckers could get it. But it has no special sense organs to tell it anything. Led by chance alone, it would be sure to chew its way close to and probably through the outer wood, but this never happens. It always carefully avoids the woodpecker zone.

Then the time comes for the larva to metamorphose, and now for the first time it crawls to but a short distance from the outer surface of the oak. Why does it do this, for a woodpecker might now get it?

The blind, mindless worm is soon to change into a beetle, and that beetle will not be able to eat its way through hard wood as the worm can. So the worm comes close to the surface, digs a hole to the surface, makes a chalky doorway, turns around goes inward a fraction of an inch, and then turns around again and faces outward toward the bark, and undergoes the final change.

It turns around and faces outward, but why does it do that? As a soft worm, it can easily change directions in its tunnels, but the beetle will not be able to do so. If it faced inward, the beetle would die. But the worm never makes a mistake. It always faces outward before changing into a beetle.

When the beetle emerges, it simply crawls straight out,. tears out the chalky doorway, and emerges from the oak.  

[WJT]

Thank you Chris and Brian-limousin for the information. We won't be going back out until March and will be very worried until then.  I find it very strange regarding the artisans we had take a look at our house and their attitudes, surely don't feel confident in hiring them.  Will contact the one that JOH provided the link for. In the meantime, will be having nightmares of them eating our house.

[Caterham7]

Capricorn beetles are from the same family as Longhorn beetles and may even be the same?

Damage should be treated and the effects and treatment of insect attack is well covered by 'Timber pests and their control-produced by TRADA',and BRE Digest 327 Insecticidal treatments against wood boring insects.

Hardwoods are more resiliant especially the heartwood and these should not be attacked to the same degree as sapwood or softwood.

The subject is too laborious to go into detail but if you have access to a fax !!!

I came across the following site which  does describe DIY treatment

www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/woodworm.htm

Timbers MUST be inspected closely and the extent of damage assessed together with their residual structural capacity.

Regards Tony ,MIStructE

[Ron Avery]

The French appear to have a laissez-faire attitude to woodworm and capricorn.  Capricorn does indeed eat at hardwoods including chestnut, it often infests the softer bark areas of beams and was treated by hacking off the affected areas creating the scalloped effect you see.  The problem is that most old beams were fitted untreated and green, so the little ******s have no problems setting up home. 

However, as Chris says, if left untreated it will eat through beams, albeit slowly,  I have one or two with very large areas of infestation, but these have taken many years of munching so no need to panic. 

Think of it as woodworm in the UK.  It can be treated by yourself if you have the time and access or by a specialist firm.   It can be treated by the application of something like Xylophene, obtainable from Bricos, some wood stains also contain a treatment so you can paint and treat at the same time.

[WJT]

Thank you Tony and Ron. Ron as far as DIY we have noticed the Xylophene in great quantities for sale in France.  We were told that the wood would have to be injected in order for the treatment to be effective we were not aware that we could actually paint it on ourselves.  If it is effective on infested wood we will definitely give it a go ourselves. As far as access goes even one of the artisans noted a disclaimer in his devis regarding not having access to some wood in the roof void. By the way some of the beams do have very large holes in them, we do not know how long they have been infested. Thank you again for the input it is most appreciated.

Wendy 

[phylisbide]

Ridding your beams of the little blighter - DIY effort - please make sure you are well masked and protected. The chemicals are very fierce on the lungs etc. A friend was very poorly after treating his beams with a spray pump, despite being well protected. We have struggled to get local quotes for removal in a small area - having had the main house treated before we moved in. THe quotes we have had are very expensive and we are now planning to tackle the job ourselves. However when the main house was done, they cut back any obvious infestation, giving us rustic look to the beams, and then drilled holes into which they squirted the beetle juice. It is a horrible job - keep the invoice afterwards as it may be your only future guarantee.

Good luck

[Ron Avery]

[quote]Thank you Tony and Ron. Ron as far as DIY we have noticed the Xylophene in great quantities for sale in France. We were told that the wood would have to be injected in order for the treatment to be e...[/quote]

Wendy

Xylophene is available in large tins because it is easy to use and effective, it can be used for pre-use protection, protection against infestation in situ and to treat affected areas, which of these you are doing affects the number of coats you have to apply.  Although you should take precautions to avoid contact with the skin and ventilate the work area, being water based as most modern treatments are, it is nothing like as pungent or harmful as the treatment used say 20 years ago.

You should paint it on allowing for absorsion and a few small inconspicuous holes drilled in the infected areas (in addition to those made by the Capricorn helps absorption into the hardwood.  You can as others have mentioned also hack off the affected areas, this is often the bark on old beams and then treat the rest of the beams as a preventative measure.

[JohnM]

I can't find my research at the moment, but I think there are two different beetles known as Capricorn. One of them only lives in growing trees and (again it's a "think") I think it is protected. The other lives in dead wood and can destroy beams. I may be misremembering, but I had a long email from an insect expert who claimed that if beams are old, then the larva can not dwell in the heartwood because they do need moisture to live, so in my circumstances he suggested that I was unlikely to have any trouble.

Perhaps that is why some of the experts are saying do not worry?

That being said, I aim to get my beams treated.