Val_2 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Some elderly british friends when they bought their house here 17 years got the local BF bodger to install an english water heating system via the UK method of a cold feed tank with ballcock intheir attic space and numerous copper pipes descending across the attic floor. Fine and all worked well until the recent cold snap when they returned from xmas in the UK to find the pipes had burst in the roof and the lounge was ruined. Luckily the neighbour had a key and managed to get a proper plumber in and clear upthe mess for them but now the insurers are not paying out because the system did not conform to french normes of plumbing and heating water. This is a good example of why the UK system is not used here and a proper chauffe-eau if preferable and why you should never use a ferry-qualified bodger on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hardly a bodge job if it did the job for 17 years.Our local cafe bar's pipes froze last week and I am quite certain that the plumber who installed the pipework ,probably at least 20 years ago, was french Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Gatine Deux-Sèvres: a short piece of polyurethane pipe routed through the barn has been frozen on four mornings last week, the first time in ten years.Today barriers have been placed on small roads in the department, until thawing has occurred. The last time that was necessary was 20 years ago. It has been exceptionally cold over an extended period. Frozen pipes frankly, no great surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think you may both have missed the point that of course pipes freeze, but the insurers are refusing to pay out because the installation wasn't in accordance with french normes.If you hadn't missed this point, I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote user="Maricopa"]I think you may both have missed the point that of course pipes freeze, but the insurers are refusing to pay out because the installation wasn't in accordance with french normes.If you hadn't missed this point, I apologise.[/quote]Maybe with either system simply closing the supply valve and draining down would have sufficed.[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 A couple of hours ago, I read on a description for a French property for sale:........we have spent the last 3 years renovating the property to high UK standards......Made me smile as it was a French house in France and I wondered why the vendors thought that "UK standards" would increase the attractiveness of their house to buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 But Val_2, if we don't have a cold water tank in the attic where do I keep the dead pigeon ?John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutiara Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I thought that loft storage tanks are obligatory under Uk plumbing rules as there has to be somewhere for plumbers to have a slash under health and safety rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondeau Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I wonder...........are UK type systems not allowed in France ?True, simple pressurised systems are widely used in France but I assumed that (as in the UK these days) they are widely used because they are cheap and technically very simple to instal....... Consider for a moment a medium sized tourist hotel........200 beds....... and of course......200 bathrooms!Do they run a 500mm water main to the building ?you'd need some pretty gigantic water mains in tourist towns......or do they store water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote user="jondeau"]Do they run a 500mm water main to the building ?[/quote]I've seen the water main for our village (400 inhabitants) and it's only about 120mm and the pressure is fantastic, so why would you need 500mm for a single building?Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondeau Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sid, I was being a bit flippant there........The rest of the question isn't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I cannot understand why a loft based none presurised tank containing perhaps 250 litres is any more dangerous that a mains presurised cold water feed in copper going across a board floor of a loft which has insulation below it but without the pipes insulated. In either cases if the pipes freeze then thaw you have a problem. In both cases your insurer is either going to repudiate the claim and tell you to sue the plumber or pay up and then seek to recover from the plumber.Not mad on UK plumbing regs prefer Canadien or French but the problem is not a loft tank it is the failure to insulate properly. I would add that if I ever install and AGA or similar I will want a system which fails safe in the event of mains presure / supply failure.Just out of curiosity can you scan in the letter from the French loss adjuster than seeks to repudiate on the grounds of failure to meet the NF. Suspect the letter relate more to performance than design. Can have the insurer and insureds details obliterated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlsterRugby1999 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote]Some elderly british friends when they bought their house here 17 years got the local BF bodger to install an english water heating system via the UK method of a cold feed tank with ballcock intheir attic space and numerous copper pipes descending across the attic floor.[/quote]Val_2 - what a complete clampit you are. They got a local guy to follow their foolish (near xzenophobic type) instructions (because the French dont know a damn what they are doing et al) and then when something goes wrong (beacuse the inferior British system is completely inadequate here) they get (and you too) on their hind legs and shout foul. [:@][:@]How crass are you to call this fellow a bodger - he would have every right to call you a moron. And I'd back him all the way. [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Strike a nerve did I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 No matter what the person may be it all boils down to the fact that if you have something done to your house, it don't matter if it's water or electrifical, if it don't conform to the French way of doing it then your insurance company will vansh quicker than you can shake a stick!We know an English couple who have had a chimney fire just before Christmas. It was very nearly VERY big, but all it did was cause a lot of damage! The fire service arrived and the first thing they asked for after the danger was over was the reciept for the current ramonage (chimney sweep) because if it wasn't current then they would have been without insurance and would have had to pay for the pompier too!The pompier said that the buche du ramonage (chemical chimney cleaning log?) is useless and the insurance companies do not recognise then as a valid chimney clean! I have never wanted to touch one with a very long pole! Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 [quote user="jondeau"]Sid, I was being a bit flippant there........[/quote]Oh! [:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm quite surprised by this thread as some relations had a fairly serious fire at their house. They had no idea who had some of the electrical work, nor if it conformed, as they hadn't owned the property that long. The insurance company (AGF) wished to seee bills for the new work they had done but informed that if there were no bills (i.e. if the work was old, they had done the work themselves or even on the black) the insurance would still pay. If an artisan had done the work then should it prove faulty they could persue HIS insurance. In the case of no bill - it is not illegal to work on your own house in France or even to be incompetent! - then they were insured and the insurance could and did cough up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="Val_2"]Some elderly british friends when they bought their house here 17 years got the local BF bodger to install an english water heating system via the UK method of a cold feed tank with ballcock intheir attic space and numerous copper pipes descending across the attic floor. Fine and all worked well until the recent cold snap when they returned from xmas in the UK to find the pipes had burst in the roof and the lounge was ruined. Luckily the neighbour had a key and managed to get a proper plumber in and clear upthe mess for them but now the insurers are not paying out because the system did not conform to french normes of plumbing and heating water. This is a good example of why the UK system is not used here and a proper chauffe-eau if preferable and why you should never use a ferry-qualified bodger on the cheap.[/quote]Leo wrote.During the recent cold snap, this house was unoccupied. - ( risk involved here ) The plumbing system has “all worked well” for 17 years. - ( no risk involved there ) The insurers have been accepting premiums for 17 years. - ( apparently, no risk involved there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutiara Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="Anton Redman"]I cannot understand why a loft based none presurised tank containing perhaps 250 litres is any more dangerous that a mains presurised cold water feed [/quote]I can.........Well if my house was vacant and the mains stopcock was off, then with a mains pressured French system the most water I would have to deal with would be a few litres in the event of a burst pipe.With a loft based water storage tank, if there is a burst in one of the pipes coming out the tank then you are going to get 250litres plus (or more) of water damage - enough to bring down ceilings and do a lot more damage.I would also mention that if an English system is installed it is likely that Uk sourced copper pipe, and soft soldering has been used,- two combinatons that give a muc weaker joint in the event of a freeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Agreed and it more work to drain as well as turn off the stop cock so probably more likely not to be doen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="LEO"][quote user="Val_2"][/quote]Leo wrote.During the recent cold snap, this house was unoccupied. - ( risk involved here ) The plumbing system has “all worked well” for 17 years. - ( no risk involved there ) The insurers have been accepting premiums for 17 years. - (apparently, no risk involved there) [/quote]ExactementNice work if you can get it [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="Jonzjob"]The pompier said that the buche du ramonage (chemical chimney cleaning log?) is useless and the insurance companies do not recognise then as a valid chimney clean! I have never wanted to touch one with a very long pole! Do you?[/quote] Yes - used them happily while we had a wood stove.and they each came with an insurance certificate with IRRC Axa valid for 1 year from the date of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyv Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Our ramoneur did his ramoneuring, but emerged from the fireplace explaining that he was not happy. Apparently there was so much tar stuck to the flue that he was unable to clear it all. This was caused by the previous owners burning pine, and never having the chimney swept.His recommendation: A buche de ramonage (or several) every time we lit the fire, and he would come back in the spring to give it another go (another 80€, I assume)However, I was very impressed with the result: the tar litterally dripped out of the fireplace, and it is already looking a lot better. I would rather doubt that it is a replacement for a proper chimney sweep, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="tonyv"]I would rather doubt that it is a replacement for a proper chimney sweep, though.[/quote]Like this oneBout as good as me French accent! [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="andyh4"][quote user="Jonzjob"] The pompier said that the buche du ramonage (chemical chimney cleaning log?) is useless and the insurance companies do not recognise then as a valid chimney clean! I have never wanted to touch one with a very long pole! Do you?[/quote] Yes - used them happily while we had a wood stove.and they each came with an insurance certificate with IRRC Axa valid for 1 year from the date of use. [/quote]You pays yer money and you takes yer chance Andy, but for me a ramonage is well worth the money and the piece of mind! Our insurance takes the route of getting the chimney swept, professionally!If a bouche ramonage can melt tar with just the fumes that it sends up the spout then I would hate to think what is in it! The only way I know to remove resin is with acitone and that is wicked stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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