French Bank Accounts - Withdrawing cash

[Katieb]

We have recently opened a French bank account and with our limited knowledge of the French language, we found this to be a difficult exercise.

Does anyone know what the procedure is for withdrawal of say 8000 euros in cash, can you just pop into the you local branch, request it and then take it away?

All we currently have is a Carte Bleu...

Thanks...

Kate

[makeiteasy]

hello Kate,

no i'm nearly sure that if you come in the bank and say that you want to withdraw 8000 euros , your bank adviser will send you packing

For some reason of security, banks are obliging people who wants to withdraw more than 500 euros in once to inform them minimum 48 hours before. So i really advise your bank that you intend to get such amount some days before

Céline

www.makeiteasyconsulting.com

[makeiteasy]

Sorry my last phrase doesn't have any sense!!!I wanted to say that i advise you to inform your bank that you intend to withdraw such amount...I have to wake up

Céline

[Lori]

Yes, with our branch of Credit Agricole, you would need to advise them in advance.  Here, they no longer handle cash (hard to believe, but true) and would probably be giving you a bank check anyway.  I'm sure the cash could be ordered, but you would need to give them some notice.  Amazing huh..

[Ejc]

Our local CA is also "cashless" BUT - if you have the funds you can simply withdraw from the rows of ATMs. If we needed to withdraw a larger amount - we'd probably arrange this up front.

 

 

[Teamedup]

I just cannot imagine why you would want to withdraw so much cash. I rarely use cash. This is a cheque and card society. I would be giving a sideways glance and walking away from anyone who wanted cash especially that much. And yes a bank would want notice about such a big withdrawal.

[Ron Avery]

[quote]Our local CA is also "cashless" BUT - if you have the funds you can simply withdraw from the rows of ATMs. If we needed to withdraw a larger amount - we'd probably arrange this up front.[/quote]

You certainly cannot withdraw 8000€ in a day from an ATM unless you have a platinum/ruby/diamond account

But if you have the funds and take adequate ID like a carte de sejour etc you should be able to get it from a CA bank, not sure you need to make an appointment as never had that amount out in one go, but I got 1000€ out on demand OK 

 The teller can withdraw it by encoding the cards that they now use and going with you to the ATM's in the bank.  There is however a little snag with this system,  because the withdrawal is over your weekly ATM limit, you probably will not be able to get any more money from an ATM using your card for a week. So you will have to make any other withdrawals of cash at the bank

Unless there is an overriding need for cash I would do what "steamy" says and give a cheque

[andyh4]

Not sure why you think you need that much cash, and I think I read somewhere that it is illegal to make a cash payment of over 3000€ but probably someone can put me right.

 

A cheque is usually a much better bet anyway since unlike the UK there is not the same concern about cheques clearing before a transaction is completed - since a bouncing cheque (à bois) is also illegal in France.

[LesLauriers]

"Not sure why you think you need that much cash, and I think I read somewhere that it is illegal to make a cash payment of over 3000€ but probably someone can put me right."

That's how I understand it.

[Lori]

Is that to say that it is illegal to say buy a car with cash (over 3000 euros)??

You've got to be kidding me...  Is this true?

[Katieb]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

Unfortunately we do not have a cheque book yet. We have  been in France for 3 weeks and only recently opened a bank account. We have just put a deposit on a second hand car from a garage and need 6000 euros to pay the balance on Saturday.

 

Do we ask the bank to issue a cheque? (any advise on what it may be called please??!)

 

Thanks

Kate

[Logan]

Go into your branch and ask the bank to issue a bank cheque payable to the garage. There will be a small charge of course.

Large cash transactions in France are regarded with enormous suspicion. I am not sure about the legality but paying or asking to be paid in cash means only one thing - On the black!

[BJSLIV]

There will be a small charge of course

12 Euros at Soc Gen

[Tarn]

Whilst at the bank ask them what your daily and weekly ATM limits are. I had mine increased but they're still quite a small amount. Payments using your card or cheque are OK but banks don't like people having cash.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]Is that to say that it is illegal to say buy a car with cash (over 3000 euros)?? You've got to be kidding me... Is this true?[/quote]

No, it isn't.

However, it is illegal to pay an Artisan over (I thought it was) 2000E in cash.

 

[andyh4]

Lori,

 

France is France and the UK is the UK (or US is US).  Different standards apply and there are different expectations.

 

In France presenting a cheque without funds to cover it is, as I understand it, a criminal offence.  In the UK it is a civil matter unless you can prove intent to defraud.

 

Consequently cheques are much more trusted in France than in the UK.  Your cheque has your name and address on it and onced asked to a piece of identity to tie you to the name and address, that is the end of the matter.  None of this "have you got a chaeque guarantee card, ah well it is only for 50 pounds, I will have to get bank authorisation........"

 

We should always be wary of judging other countries ways of doing things based only on our own standards.

[Lori]

I paid our macon more than 2000 Euros for some work he did.  He gave me the facture (TVA INCLUDED !) and I paid him in cash.  To me, there is no difference between check and cash.  As long as you pay from a legal facture, I don't see the difference.  I had the money in the house at the time (don't normally).  He took it and gave me my receipt.  How can that be illegal?

[andyh4]

Lori,

you have a nice piece of paper that says you have paid x€ to the macon. 

What proof is there that this piece of paper ever enters his official accounts?  What stops him issuing a second facture to anothe client (who pays be cheque) with the same number on it that does go through his books?  Who would ever know (apart from the macon) that there were 2 invoices numbered 25 (or whatever) - one of which for cash never appears anywhere in accounts and the other that is duly declared.?

 

That's why it is illegal.

 

PS  I am in no way suggesting that your macon would do anything of this nature.  It is a purely hypothetical situation - which the French governmanet and tax authorities try to avoid by having a legal limit on cash transactions.

[Logan]

That is exactly right Andy. A few years ago (when I was a little greener than now) I employed an artisan to work on my property quite extensively and over a number of months. He periodically asked to be paid in cash but always issued his factures showing TVA paid. Some while after his work had been completed (which I was happy with) I sold the property and to claim the allowance to avoid capital gains tax I submitted these factures to my Notary. They were rejected by the tax office and a subsequent investigation took place, including me being summoned to the tax offices and treated like a criminal for hours. It turned out that the artisan pocketed the TVA and never declared the payment on his books. Result, I had to pay more capital gains than necessary and was ordered to pay the TVA already paid back to the state. I went looking for the aristan in question and of course he had moved on address unknown.

So NEVER pay anyone in cash in France.

[Lori]

Andyh4 - I was never aware of this.  How can I keep abreast of these types of issues.  Have never seen it on any of the French governmental websites that I know about.  Bank has never told me anything of this nature - granted, I had not asked.  Can you advise?  Where can I read about these things?  French or English, either works.

Can't the same argument go to the restaurant that accepts nothing but cash - no credit cards and perhaps, doesn't record all his/her payments to the tax man?.  And, the shopkeeper who sells me a 400 Euro appliance, I pay cash for and he/she records something different..?  These may not be above a 2000 Euro mark, but the same argument would apply no?

If my macon has given me a legal facture, I pay it in cash and he gives me a receipt for my payment, isn't that where MY responsibility ends and his begins?  I have my facture and my receipt of payment.  If he doesn't record or report it, he would be in error, how could I be?

 

[andyh4]

Lori,

I honestly cannot remember where I read this but it gave me a shock too - especially since when we openned our French account with the bank we proudly presented them with 10 crisp 500€ notes - we had never seen these before (and probably never will again) and neither had the bak official!!  Made me wonder if we had broken the law then but at least the money was being transferred into an auditable place, so probably safe.

 

The rest I am afraid comes from 20 years experience of auditing and understanding at least the simple ploys for  giving the impression that a is happeneing when in fact b is.

 

Regarding restaurants and small cash transactions - I do not know how these are treated by the French tax authorities but if they are like the UK, there will be a notional expectation of what should be passing through the books (a bench mark) and any operation not meeting the benchmark will either be deemed to have reached it and taxed accordingly, and/or severely investigated.  A case of guilty until proven innocent.  (From what I remember UK tax authority for example deems that waiters will receive so much in tips and tax them accordingly, whether they did or did not).

 

Regarding your responsibility having paid the macon his bill - well I think Logan's reply answers that.  If you come to sell you could be left holding the baby.

[Lori]

Thank you so much for the clarification.  It is amazing these days that we must live our own lives based on the fact that whom ever we are dealing with are criminals and will draw us up into their little web of deceit ( a word I had to look up in French - "tromperie").  It is equally amazing that we (the client thinking he/she has paid legally) can actually be pursued - well now I know.  No more paying anything large with cash ....

Learn something new every day !

I do wish there was a place where we could really read about the laws of this country.  That will be my next book search ..  I'm sure they are out there.  I think I need one..

Merci !

[Logan]

I sympathise with you Lori. Moving to live in France is a learning curve for us all none French. The culture, laws and procedures are so utterly different to UK and USA and everywhere else come to that. I have been here for years and I still learn something new everyday. Some of these learned lessons have come at great personal and financial cost. The example I posted here is just one of them. The system is so utterly unforgiving and you are guilty until YOU prove yourself innocent which is not always easy to do. However I have discovered that if you play 'hard ball' with the system, especially the tax system you can get out from under cheaper. They will accept offers if you refuse their first demands and argue like mad. I have also found this to be true in many official dealings. Do not accept the first move they make. Functionaires hate a one to one argument.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote]Thank you so much for the clarification. It is amazing these days that we must live our own lives based on the fact that whom ever we are dealing with are criminals and will draw us up into their lit...[/quote]

This is the legislation about cash payments

CODE MONETAIRE ET FINANCIER (Partie Législative) Section 3 : Interdiction du paiement en espèces de certaines créances Article L112-6 (Ordonnance nº 2000-916 du 19 septembre 2000 art. 1 I Journal Officiel du 22 septembre 2000 en vigueur le 1er janvier 2002) (Loi nº 2001-1276 du 28 décembre 2001 art. 51 III finances rectificative pour 2001 Journal Officiel du 29 décembre 2001 en vigueur le 1er janvier 2002) (Loi nº 2005-882 du 2 août 2005 art. 39 Journal Officiel du 3 août 2005)    I. - Les règlements qui excèdent la somme de 1 100 euros ou qui ont pour objet le paiement par fraction d'une dette supérieure à ce montant, portant sur les loyers, les transports, les services, fournitures et travaux ou afférents à des acquisitions d'immeubles ou d'objets mobiliers ainsi que le paiement des produits de titres nominatifs et des primes ou cotisations d'assurance doivent être effectués par chèque barré, virement ou carte de paiement ; il en est de même pour les transactions sur des animaux vivants ou sur les produits de l'abattage.    Le paiement des traitements et salaires est soumis aux mêmes conditions au-delà d'un montant fixé par décret.    II. - Les dispositions du I ne sont pas applicables :    a) Aux règlements à la charge de personnes qui sont incapables de s'obliger par chèques ou de celles qui, ne disposant plus de compte, en ont demandé l'ouverture en application des dispositions de l'article L. 312-1 ;    b) Aux règlements faits directement par des particuliers non commerçants à d'autres particuliers, à des commerçants ou à des artisans ;    c) Aux règlements des transactions portant sur des animaux vivants ou sur les produits de l'abattage effectués par un particulier pour les besoins de sa consommation familiale ou par un agriculteur avec un autre agriculteur, à condition qu'aucun des deux intéressés n'exerce par ailleurs une profession non agricole impliquant de telles transactions ;    d) Au règlement des dépenses de l'Etat et des collectivités et établissements publics.    Par dérogation aux dispositions du I ci-dessus, les dépenses des services concédés qui excèdent la somme de 450 euros doivent être payées par virement. Article L112-7    Les infractions aux dispositions de l'article L. 112-6 sont constatées par des agents désignés par arrêté du ministre chargé du budget. Les contrevenants sont passibles d'une amende fiscale dont le montant ne peut excéder 5 % des sommes indûment réglées en numéraire. Cette amende, qui est recouvrée comme en matière de timbre, incombe pour moitié au débiteur et au créancier ; mais chacun d'eux est solidairement tenu d'en assurer le règlement total. Article L112-8 (Loi nº 2001-1276 du 28 décembre 2001 art. 51 III finances rectificative pour 2001 Journal Officiel du 29 décemb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Lori Posted August 12, 2005 Lori Members 2.6k Share Posted August 12, 2005 Boiling a Frog - You're the best !  I actually had this website on my favorites list, but hadn't really reviewed it in a couple of years and certainly not in any detail the last time I did.  Was looking for something totally different at that time. I plan to print out the laws you forwarded (from the website).  Can't wait for the tea time conversation with my friends (French and otherwise), whom I doubt know anything about this either. Appears to be a fairly new set of laws - at least it looked like they came into effect in 2002, 2003 and 2005.  Makes me wonder why the macon, etc. didn't inform me of the law when I paid in cash in excess of the legal amount.  Either they don't know or don't care or don't plan to declare ... We have come to learn so many French laws the hard way.  Hence the book idea.  Maybe I should spend an hour every day just reading the service-public website.  Probably would find it frighteningly eye opening.  Have read many other types of books regarding the legalities of living in France, but NONE of them have been very accurate.  In fact, most of them have been totally wrong.  It is extremely hard to accept the fact that the laws in this country can vary from department to department.  Maybe the laws don't vary, but how they are enforced, or not, does (not sure). Anyway, thanks a million for that.  This is a great forum ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2   Please sign in to comment You will be able to leave a comment after signing in Sign In Now  Share More sharing options... Followers 0 Go to topic listing All Activity Home Forums Legal and Finance French Finance French Bank Accounts - Withdrawing cash Cookie Policy Manage Cookies Contact Us Copyright France Media Group Limited Powered by Invision Community × Existing user? Sign In Complete France Browse Back Browse Forums Online Users Leaderboard Activity Back All Activity Search × Create New...

[Lori]

Boiling a Frog - You're the best ! 

I actually had this website on my favorites list, but hadn't really reviewed it in a couple of years and certainly not in any detail the last time I did.  Was looking for something totally different at that time.

I plan to print out the laws you forwarded (from the website).  Can't wait for the tea time conversation with my friends (French and otherwise), whom I doubt know anything about this either.

Appears to be a fairly new set of laws - at least it looked like they came into effect in 2002, 2003 and 2005.  Makes me wonder why the macon, etc. didn't inform me of the law when I paid in cash in excess of the legal amount.  Either they don't know or don't care or don't plan to declare ...

We have come to learn so many French laws the hard way.  Hence the book idea.  Maybe I should spend an hour every day just reading the service-public website.  Probably would find it frighteningly eye opening.  Have read many other types of books regarding the legalities of living in France, but NONE of them have been very accurate.  In fact, most of them have been totally wrong.  It is extremely hard to accept the fact that the laws in this country can vary from department to department.  Maybe the laws don't vary, but how they are enforced, or not, does (not sure).

Anyway, thanks a million for that.  This is a great forum !