The Pension Service - new form - Beware!

[Hereford]

My 85 year old father (living here in France)  has received a form to complete from the UK pension service.  It appears to be in order to prove he is still alive as all the information asked for is already in their possession.

He considers, and we agree. that the letter is "threatening".  It arrived via the Netherlands, taking a week from the date on the letter.   In large type in a box at the start of the letter it says " You must reply to this letter within eight weeks from the date of this letter.  If you do not  do this, payment of your state pension will be stopped"

The form requires that he present himself plus photo id (passport etc) to one of the following - who must then sign and stamp the form:

• An official of the UK diplomatic or consular service
• An employee of the social security authorities which pay benefits in your country of residence.
• A barrister, solicitor or advocate authorised to practice in the country where the declaration is made, or any other person allowed to administer oaths in the country where the declaration is made.
• A magistrate, justice of the peace or a member of the local police force.

This list is far more restrictive than that required for a passport application.  We live in deepest Normandy so the first option is out. In any case if asking a French official to sign the form are we to expect them to read English or hope they accept what we tell them it says?

We are going to complain to the DWP about this letter. Neither my father nor we have any problem with proving we are alive but a three page form is not needed to do this nor are the complicated arrangements to get it verified.

Has anyone else had this letter. My Dad feels that they are targeting the oldest pensioners first and will then move on down the age scale.

We would be interested to hear your views.

Mrs H.

[NormanH]

For some time there has been a similar form to fill in for recipients of Local Government pensions, but the list of people authorised to sign is not the same.

I have twice signed as a witness for a retired teacher who lives locally.

It does have  the same sort of phrase about stopping payment.

I don't think it is menacing, just a check that someone in receipt of a pension is really still alive, and the money isn't going into the wrong pocket.

[Âme]

I'd agree with NormanH; this is standard wording. All of the letters that OH has received from The Pension Service have arrived with a Benelux postmark.

Regarding the list of places to get this stamped, when faced with the same list of 'possibles' OH started at the Gendarmerie. The bemused desk officer referred him to the Mairie. He explained what the letter was about to the Maire, who was happy to stamp & sign it. Returned it to TPS. It was accepted.

Hope that helps to put your mind at ease. It is rather annoying to repeatedly complete info already on file, I know, but we live in these times of ID & security checks.

[Boiling a frog]

It is also not unknown for people to continue claiming a benefit, such as state pension , when the person is no longer entitled or has died. How difficult would it be for you to visit the Mairie or your local notaire

[suein56]

[quote user="Hereford"] In any case if asking a French official to sign the form are we to expect them to read English or hope they accept what we tell them it says?    [/quote]

In my opinion this is potentially the biggest stumbling block. Our notaires are splendidly helpful but conversant with English they are not, the Maire and his team are excellent too, but I doubt their English knowledge would be able to cover this eventuality.

It seems strange that no letter translated into French accompanied this demand - such as is received when an E106 comes to an end and letters in English and French are sent by the UK authorities to be given to CPAM.

Sue

[JMB]

My English father is 90 and lives in Australia.  I shall ask him if he has receveived the same letter.

[5-element]

I have received such a letter from Standard Life with whom I have a tiny pension.

I took it to the Mairie, where I was told they could not sign it, as it was in English, and should have been sent translated into French, or I should provide a sworn translation... It was suggested instead, to write another form, called "Certificat de Vie" which basically copied down my particulars as seen on my ID card, and which I signed, witnessed by the Mairie's clerk.

I don't know yet if this will be acceptable to Standard Life or not, and have sent them a covering letter to explain what I was told at the Mairie. Apparently, there exists a European form, in several languages, which should have been sent instead of the said letter. The Mairie's clerk had apparently filled that form several times, (never for anyone for Britain), for ex-workers from Spain, Switzerland, Netherlands - they all had the right form, which I did not. (Apparently).

[Hereford]

Thanks for these comments.  We have no problem with the idea of a form to check he (or anyone) is alive but do feel the bold, large type is threatening for an old person. I shall telephone the DWP on Monday to see if the Maire will be acceptable but no English is spoken at the Mairie (why should it be) so we would have to hope they are willing to accept our translation.

We do not see either why a pre-printed form with all details on it could not have been sent rather than a three page form to complete in full.

Thanks again.

Mrs H.

[AnOther]

Have you considered that it might be in big bold type on the not unreasonable assumption that an 85 year old recipient may not be in possession or 20/20 vision [blink]

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Hereford"]

We do not see either why a pre-printed form with all details on it could not have been sent rather than a three page form to complete in full.

Thanks again.

Mrs H.
[/quote]

Perhaps because in cases where there is a fraud having the info sent to them rather assists the fraudster ?

 

[JMB]

Ernie ... lol

[Ron Avery]

You know posts like that of the OP make my blood boil.  If the boot was on the other foot and it was found that hundreds of UK pensions were being paid to elderly pensioners in France and Spain without any evidence that they were still living,  the Daily Wail would have a field day.  The DWP do reasonable checks and they are castigated for being threatening.  Of course the oldest are being targeted its those who are most like to be brown bread!!

I don't see why there should be French translation of this form either, what has it got to do with the French?  Its an English form to an English pensioner,  it does not interest the French or involve them, why should it have a French translation?  The form is not asking for a French signature, its asking for the signature of a number of people who are asked to verify that the attached photo is of the claimant.  Sorry Mrs H but if you cannot even explain to a Notaire or Maire the reason for asking for the form to be signed by them then its really about time you became more proficient in the language of your adopted home.  How does your father get on with completing his French tax return if you cannot speak any French? 

Try a translation here http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html?lp=zh_en&r=0 might help if your French is really that bad.

[Pads]

Have you considered that this may be a scam to get your details to claim your pension ...... Have you rung the office involved not the number on the letter to check its correct ?

 

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

I don't see why there should be French translation of this form either, what has it got to do with the French?  Its an English form to an English pensioner,  it does not interest the French or involve them, why should it have a French translation?  The form is not asking for a French signature, its asking for the signature of a number of people who are asked to verify that the attached photo is of the claimant.  Sorry Mrs H but if you cannot even explain to a Notaire or Maire the reason for asking for the form to be signed by them then its really about time you became more proficient in the language of your adopted home.  How does your father get on with completing his French tax return if you cannot speak any French? 

Try a translation here http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html?lp=zh_en&r=0 might help if your French is really that bad.

[/quote]

The OP shouldn't have to explain, why should any French official just accept that what the OP is translating is correct ?

It does involve the French, they are being asked to get a signature from a French official.

[Ron Avery]

Read the OP's description of the form RH.

Its an English form from the UK DWP  sent to UK pensioners in English (and Welsh probably), to be signed normally by a UK person in the UK to verify that the person whose name is on the form has shown identity to them to say who he says he or she is.  They don't say that the signature guarantees the information on the other two pages[8-)]??? is correct does it?

If you follow your line of thinking why not have the form in every euopean language or Asian language on the off chance that the recipient might have to show it to a local dignatory?   

[Chas]

Received the form a few weeks ago. As far as I know I'm still alive so I filled it in and got it signed and sent it back. No big deal. 

A neighbour, however, had changed address and not having made arrangements for mail to be forwarded did not receive his form. The  first he knew was some weeks later when his pension was not paid. Moral - make sure your personal admin is up to date.  

[Russethouse]

Ron - the Op says this :

The form requires that he present himself plus photo id (passport etc) to one of the following - who must then sign and stamp the form:

• An official of the UK diplomatic or consular service

• An employee of the social security authorities which pay benefits in your country of residence.

• A barrister, solicitor or advocate authorized to practice in the country where the declaration is made, or any other person allowed to administer oaths in the country where the declaration is made.

• A magistrate, justice of the peace or a member of the local police force.

Most officials like to know what they are signing to say

Surely notes in French, German, Spanish and Italian would help the vast majority of Britains who live abroad in Europe ? Grief - you get instructions in umpteen languages if you buy an electric whisk, surely certifying someone is alive is just as important ?

 

[mooky]

Sorry Mrs H but if you cannot even explain to a Notaire or Maire the reason for asking for the form to be signed by them then its really about time you became more proficient in the language of your adopted home.  How does your father get on with completing his French tax return if you cannot speak any French? 

I think thats rather rude Ron. Hereford asked for advice not criticism

[Ron Avery]

Helllo Mooky, If you had bothered to read the OP instead of rushing in with yet another pointless post, the OP asked for views, not advice.  I posted my view as did others.  Is that OK with you?  Please don't hesitate to come back with another inaccurate and pointless post[:P][:P].

 

R.H your Royal Highness.Yes of course you are right, the form being in English will cause so much trouble to the elderly who cannot speak English, what was I thinking about, and with so much choice as to who they could ask to sign it,  it will be so stressful for the old ***** to find a signature of any of the people listed, probably be dead before they find someone in Normandy who speaks English, so waste of money really isn't it.[Www]  Nice to see that you want to waste public money in the UK, glad I don't pay taxes there.[blink]

[Russethouse]

Hold on - it was the numb skull in the DWP who failed to realise they were requesting an official of a foriegn country to sign a form that they may not understand, who has cost the money.

It's pretty basic commonsense isn't it ? You send a form to a country where English is not the native language and expect an official to sign it to witness something ? Would a British policeman sign a form he didn't understand in French/German/Italian/Spanish ?

 

[5-element]

According to the official I saw at my Mairie, such a European form, written in several languages, DOES EXIST.

And you are absolutely right, RH. That Mairie official said, no way would they sign a form in a language other than French.

[AnOther]

Sorry don't mean to be flip but having re-read this thread I couldn't resist a chuckle at:

"Neither my father nor we have any problem with proving we are alive"

Really, to the satisfaction of the DWP, how would that be then, a photograph holding up a your passports and copy of that days Daily Telegraph perhaps ?

Now excuse me if I'm mistaken but would not your GP fall under the description of  'An employee of the social security authorities which pay benefits in your country of residence' ?

Failing that there 2 fairly obvious and simple, albeit not necessarily free, solutions to this problem:

• Find another Mairie who speaks English, nobody said it had to be your own.

• Have it translated by an accredited translator.

[Ron Avery]

So there is not one 

employee of the social security authorities which pay benefits in your country of residence.

 barrister, solicitor or advocate authorised to practice in the country where the declaration is made, or any other person allowed to administer oaths in the country where the declaration is made.

 magistrate, justice of the peace or a member of the local police force.

in the whole of Normandy who could understand a  form in English.  The self centred barstewards, how dare they not speak English, what do they expect that all the people moving to France should learn to speak basic French?  Perhaps the Form is printed in bold so that it can be shouted slowly at a local official[6]

[woolybanana]

Just out of interest, how far away is the nearest consulate?

[Phil & Pat]

Bordeaux, Lille, Lyon or Marseille, haven't worked out the distances though.