Making an offer

[suzuki]

Hello

We're about to make an offer on a house in the Vosges in France. It's in very good condition and is currently on the market for 128,000 euros. We viewed the property in October last year, the asking price at that time was 139,000 and it had been on the market for about 12 months. We decided not to go for it due to the ailing state of the economy and it was as the top end of what we wanted to pay.

Now it's been reduced, we're definitely going to negotiate a price and are in direct contact with the French owners, but have been warned that if we pitch our first offer too low we could insult them to the point that they may refuse to continue to negotiate. We've seen house prices at all levels in that area so have no base on where to start.

Can anyone advise or let us know what your own experiences have been with negotiating a price. We'd have no hesitation about offering a low price here, but when in France...??

Many thanks

D & J

[AnOther]

Valuing property in France can be notoriously difficult but you cannot say you do not have a base to work from because the sellers have set one, €128,000 !

If you really do want the place then offer what you are prepared to pay for it, but also be prepared to walk away if the seller does take umbridge. Normally I'd say that an offer of -10% would be reasonable and not insulting but you have to bear in mind that the property has already been reduced by nearly that so looking for a further 10% might be too much for the seller to stomach. 10% off €128k is around €115k so I'd be tempted to offer say €118k or so and see what happens.

That said I think I'm right in saying that if the property is on sale

via an agent then the sellers are obliged to sell if the asking price is

offered so you may have a fallback position, albeit at the full price of

€128k.

Good luck

[Dog]

It's a buyers market.

How much do you want this house?

There are lots of houses for sale.

Why not use this one to find out how to bargain?

Or if you really want it - offer a price you are happy to pay for it.

[Braco]

Negotiation is an art. The agent will be the first to tell you if an offer is insulting.

 

First decide what your maximum figure is and then try to better it. You should pitch you offer at a little less than you think their bottom line is. If this initial offer is rejected wait a couple of weeks after their refusal to make your final take it or leave it offer. This final offer if required should be time constrained (say two to three weeks for them to decide).

Options are also good. I offer you x for the property/or y for the property plus the following fixtures/fittings.

 

Good luck

 

[Patf]

Some agents are prepared to negotiate on their fees too. Check out the percentage they are expecting  - it can be up to 10%. So there's more room for negotiation.

[Fi]

Are you buying through an agent or privately?  If the former, I would talk to your agent, after this amount of time he/she will probably want to get it off their books! And on a more serious note, they will have a good idea of how desperate or not your vendors are.  We eventually got a reduction of about 20% from the asking price, but our vendors needed to get rid quickly.  A lot depends on the circumstances of your vendors. I'm not sure that the average Vosgien, or any other French person, would take umbrage at a ridiculously low offer, but they might think that you are not serious if you make a really silly offer (e.g. 100K), and become less than friendly. 

I know there are houses at all prices here, but a quick trawl of immobilier.fr or similar would throw up similar properties in terms of bedrooms, terrain, village, and give you an idea of the going rate.  pap.fr is another good one for private sales.

If you need any more help, or info about the Vosges, please feel free to pm me.

Good luck, and I hope it all works out.

Fi

 

[PaulT]

My experience was that often the agent would say 'they will take a lot less'. It could have been that they were just trying to get someone to put in offer in before another agent found a buyer for the property.

A property, as with anything, is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Paul

[Stan Streason]

If 139,000 was at the top of your budget in October (at an exchange rate of about 1.25) then the equivalent today (at about 1.10) is about 122,000 so in my mind, assuming you are paying from sterling funds it is still too expensive for you.

Its teaching grandma to suck eggs but even though the price has reduced, its costing you more - dont do it.

I was open with French owners (back in Nov/Dec when exchange rates were all over the place).  I set myself a sterling limit and had a variable price based on the rate of exchange.  At 1.25 I would have paid over the odds but at 1.07 (as it got to) It would have been a lot under.  I let them look at rates and strike a price they were happy with. In the end I didnt do a deal with a French family (I purchased in sterling from an englishman instead) but I never offended them.

[NormanH]

I don't understand your thinking.

Since when did a potential buyer insult a seller by making an offer?

Its probable selling price is around 70,000 euros.

[nectarine]

I would chance it and make an offer at 10% less ... and if they don't accept then go to 5% less. If they really do want the asking price, and you really want the house that much, then I wouldn't pay the asking price without insisting that certain items were left, that they don't want more for the woodburners to be left, the lights, kitchen units, cooker, etc. Be careful, it is normal in France for the vendor to sell the house but not include the cooker, lightfittings, wood in the barn, etc., stuff that you would assume might be left as fixtures and fittings. So you might have to pay the asking price but you could have more for your money, if you understand.

I think you're in a strong position. The agent probably has more properties on his books than buyers, so you do have a wide choice. I understand your concern about not wanting to insult the buyer but be realistic - you also have to pay a premium on top for the agent and the notaire fees, so the costs add up.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

[odile]

Have you met the family? You need to suss out if they are really keen to sell, and indeed if they have to?

We accepted 23% less for a quick sale. Show them the exchange rates and all the figures in black and white - and tell them you really love the house but you can't go above 'xyxE', and see the reaction. It isn't as though they have a queue waiting, so what are you risking?

[PaulT]

[quote user="odile"]Have you met the family? You need to suss out if they are really keen to sell, and indeed if they have to?
We accepted 23% less for a quick sale. Show them the exchange rates and all the figures in black and white - and tell them you really love the house but you can't go above 'xyxE', and see the reaction. It isn't as though they have a queue waiting, so what are you risking?
[/quote]

Think my reaction would be so what - being shown exchange rates would cut no ice.

If I was selling I would be concerned with:

Is this their maximum

Do I need to sell

Are their other buyers

Am I prepared to accept this

Otherwise we would be walking in to Rolls Royce showrooms with our bank statements and saying '£50 is all I have got for one of your cars'. Do not think the salesman will be doing a deal.

[odile]

It just depends on the owner and their reasons/desperation to sell. It has been on the market for a long time - so what is the story? Do they have a house to go to, a dream, debts, bridging loan, etc, etc?

We bought our last 2 houses in the UK much below the market price by working these questions right and preparing well. And we sold much below market price because we were ready and committed to go. We are all different ... horses for courses and all that.

[hoverfrog]

if you are buying through an agent then be wary.

It's not your offer per se that may "upset" the sellers- it's how it is presented to the sellers.

I'm paying asking price for my new house, because the estate agent was acting for the sellers and the buyers - and was trying to play me against another buyer (who dropped out). She didn't want me to have the house because my offer was through another agent from the same agency - so she only got 1/2 the comission.

Politics comes into every walk of life...