New tax on non resident home owners

[Aly]

Details of a new tax on non resident home owners has been announced. The tax will be based on the rental value of the property - I think the figure is 20%

http://economicsnewspaper.com/world-economics/tax-reform-the-pied-a-terre-of-foreigners-affected-by-a-new-tax-13299.html

Does anyone have info on this.

[suej]

  The little extract I read in Courrier de l' ouest yesterday says it's a proposal under discussion/decision and would be a tax on maisons secondaires des non-residents, which looks as if it means a tax on holiday homes of those people who are not fiscally resident in france - presumably on top of the maison secondaire taxe d'Hab. Think it said to be decided before the end of July..

can't find yesterday's paper to quote it exactly and am tearing round a bit this morning....

[Aly]

Yes you are correct.  I read that plans are to bring it forward to pay for the changes and the gap in income from the wealth tax.

The figure of 20% of rental income is given

[suej]

 

         Oooh OUCH! Does that mean i ought to be glad to be paying resident taxes?!

[Aly]

It will be interesting to see what impact it will have. If people will sell up and some areas prices may fall

[mint]

Got to dampen the enthusiasm for a holiday home in France for many.

Do you think they have stopped to work this one through in their Winnie-the-Pooh brains?

[Pierre ZFP]

So the tax is 20% of rental income?  But I don't rent mine out- never!

Do you think they'll impose an 'assumed' rental?

This was done in Spain IIRC a few years back with the result on many people selling up

[woolybanana]

It is aimed at non-resident French people who keep a home in France whilst keeping their capital and selves abroad.

[Cendrillon]

Second home owners who rent their homes out, often spend a lot of money locally, paying for artisans to do their renovations. Artisans could find their work starts to dry-up.

[Cendrillon]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Got to dampen the enthusiasm for a holiday home in France for many.

Do you think they have stopped to work this one through in their Winnie-the-Pooh brains?

[/quote]

Probably not.[8-)]

[powerdesal]

[quote user="woolybanana"]It is aimed at non-resident French people who keep a home in France whilst keeping their capital and selves abroad.[/quote]

I could see the logic in that.

However, I wonder if it will also be applied to non-resident NON-FRENCH people who have a holiday place in France

[woolybanana]

Well, it will be an interesting one. In fact it could be interpreted as discrimination against other people in the EU, of course, if French people living in France and having a second home are not also taxed in the same way. Tax Johnny Foreigner and beat the FN in the election may not wash.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]Second home owners who rent their homes out, often spend a lot of money locally, paying for artisans to do their renovations. Artisans could find their work starts to dry-up.
[/quote]As we know well with the health business, the "invisible" financial contribution which we all make to the econmony (for example, neither of us takes a job from anybody but we spend thousands - I won't say how many, but it's way more than the French minimum wage - in this country every year, to say nothing of the 200k or so capital which we have spent on buying our home and then having it done up by local workers) but none of this matters when votes are involved.

Like the stuff Clair posted the other day about barring foreigners from social security assistance until they have worked here for five years or more, we are an easy target for whom few French voters have much sympathy (can you imagine if the UK tried to do that to the hundreds of thousands of French workers employed in Britain?)  With elections coming up - prepare to be the universal punch bag, folks.  We are an easy target.

[mint]

[quote user="Cendrillon"][quote user="sweet 17"]

Got to dampen the enthusiasm for a holiday home in France for many.

Do you think they have stopped to work this one through in their Winnie-the-Pooh brains?

[/quote]

Probably not.[8-)]
[/quote]

That was me precisely implying the point you have made and that Coops has picked up on.

Not only the buying and renovating of houses, etc.  We keep the tills ringing in restaurants, supermarkets and all the utilities companies, EDF, telephone, water and, last but not least, their uncompetitive banks!

Then if people do let their properties, perhaps only to friends and families, they are bringing all these tourists who eat, perhaps rent and drive cars, buy wine and cheeses and stuff to take back to their homes, pay tolls on the motorways, use ferries and trains and so on.

I wouldn't like to have to work out how many euros will be withdrawn from the French economy if only a FRACTION of second home owners (resident or otherwise) were to sell up or be deterred from buying in the first place.

Anyone looked on the web lately for Spanish and Portuguese properties going cheap?[I]

[Polly]

Here's a fairly reliable reference from Les Echos

http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-politique/france/actu/0201346265182-residences-secondaires-des-etrangers-la-taxe-fixee-a-20-de-la-valeur-locative.htm

The tax level being discussed seems to be approx the equivalent of the taxe fonciere.

The article says that only second homes for personal use would be taxable, not those let out but there's no detail on what constitutes something rented...

[Cendrillon]

Owners who let out second homes pay tax on the income.............................or should! [;-)]

[mint]

It's what I call throwing the baby out with the bathwater but, what do I know, I'm only a private citizen and I am not up for election to any political office.

[Stan Streason]

I have only ever asked friends for about €15 a night (not per person) to cover electricity use plus they do the linen and towel washing of the previous visitors and make up the beds for the next visitors and cut the grass.  I guess for a "sleeps 12" plus pool thats not very much. 

If this new tax comes in I can see that contribution to costs (not rent) having to go up quite a bit.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]Owners who let out second homes pay tax on the income.............................or should! [;-)]
[/quote]So from the looks of things, it's to scrape a bit more money from those who don't. 

Yes, Sweets, I'm with you but we all know that what politicians plan to do when they set out in their chosen career, so often gets corrupted into pure vote-winning once they are in office.  So few retain their integrity.

However, it's not a job I'd want to do so we're stuck with those who are prepared to take it on. 

 

Note to self : I really must get on with the French citizenship thing then I can vote instead of just moaning.[:D]

[Chancer]

[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]So the tax is 20% of rental income?  But I don't rent mine out- never!
Do you think they'll impose an 'assumed' rental?

[/quote]

Double negative Pierre!!! [:D]

Logically it would be a tax on the notional rental value, if it an investment and you rent it out the all things being equal the French government will get their cut so hence not subject to the new tax, if you dont like it then you may well decide to sell up and rent somewhere in future years, again all things being equal they will get their cut of the rent you pay.

Definitely pandering to the insularity of the far left voters, I actually can see this one being voted in and welcomed with open arms.

[Pierre ZFP]

touché [:P]

[breizh]

The tax will be 20% of the cadestral value of the property, which taxe fonciere also uses. It's a notional rental value, not a real rental value!

I'd agree with Chancer, this is a done deal, probably before the presidential elections next year. Good headline grabber. Payable only by expat French, and foreigners. SMICards will love it!! Win-win for the Dwarf.

I'd also have to say that I'd be 100% positive that this is one tax that the foncs will increase almost annually.

[Loiseau]

Thanks for the link, Polly.
The article is a bit contradictory.  One minute it talks about a tax on foreign property-owners, and the next it says the new law will apply to all non-resident property-owners including French (unless they have been sent abroad by their French employer).  It further says that on the one hand it will be based on 20% of rental value, then that it will be 20% of cadastral value.  [8-)]

Seems as if they've looked around for something that would raise money and not alienate the home voters.
I should think that the exemption for houses being let out would probably apply only to long-term rentals (possibly beneficial to French people - with a vote), rather than to holiday lets (often to accursed foreigners).

I like this bit:
«  Nous taxerons les non-résidents sur leurs résidences secondaires, non pas pour les stigmatiser, mais parce qu'ils utilisent, outre les services publics locaux qu'ils financent par leurs taxes locales, les services publics nationaux, sans aujourd'hui les financer.... »
What do we use that we don't finance?  We non-residents have to pay in French hospital whatever our EHIC or other insurance wouldn't cover;  we presumably contribute towards upkeep of roads through tax on fuel  - all set against the free hospital treatment and toll-free roads of the UK that are enjoyed by EU visitors to Britain.

What will they dream up next?  Taxing holidaymakers as they drive off the ferry?  [Www]

Angela

EDIT  Sorry, crossed with yours, Breizh, so a bit repetitive!

[idun]

Well actually why not?

We pay far more 'impot' in France now as non residents than we ever did when we were there. They have a whole system set up already for people who do not live in France, whether they be french or like us, with french income and living abroad and also which cases are the exception to the rules.

Everything went up for us when we left, SS and impots, so it isn't as if this is a 'new' concept, they are simply extending it to get a bit more money in.

 

[idun]

Loiseau, they do have locale taxe de sejour for holiday makers when people use hotels and gites etc. Cannot say all of France does this but we have always paid, there again we haven't visited everywhere in France either.