Channel 4 programme

[Unknown]

I have just been watching an aweful programme on channel 4 about two young girls, with 4 young brothers and parents who are blind.  They have to care for their brothers as their parents are unable to.  Its a very eye opening programme and one I have found very upsetting.  Has anyone else seen it?

[Hoddy]

I didn't see the programme Dotty, but I'm aware that this sort of thing is much more common than peope generally realise. While I was still teaching we had quite a number of children iin school in that sort of situation and the staff were all aware of it and made allowances accordingly. This is the side people don't see when they're moaning about "the young".

Hoddy

[Unknown]

Hoddy

It was just awful.  These two young girls were having to get the babies fed and changed before they went to school, then when they got home, had to changethe nappies again.  Bearing in mind the nappies hadn't been changed all day. 

Whilst I felt for the parents being blind, they were both smoking and drinking all day.  In total they have 6 kids and wantto have 8.  Personally I think it shouldn't be allowed.

[Hoddy]

I agre with you Dotty. It is awful. I must say that I thought some of the parents could have done more to help themselves and I always wondered at the absence of aunts and uncles willng to give some time.

The trouble is that some of the cases were truly heartbreaking and none of them were the kids fault. It's very hard to know where you would draw the line.

I taught me that not all seriously ill people or handicapped people are good and that some of them too, are just out for what they can get.

We used to just do our best to help the kids.

Hoddy

[Jollity Farm]

have just finished watching it... how sad that those girls are having no childhood... you would think social services would be more involved, and how selfish are those parents to stil want another baby

[Coco]

So who looked after the girls, or the other children before the girls were old enough to do it?  Sounds like a cop-out on behalf of the parents to me - perhaps the kids should be taken into care.  Most blind people are perfectly capable of doing a lot of things themselves.  Last week on "Grow your own vegetables" there was a blind man who had the most fantastic allotment where he grew every vegetable imaginable, without any help from anyone.

[Blanche Neige]

No one looked after the girls as far as one could tell. Very sad and to think that the blind parents wanted to have lots of children so that  there will be plenty of children to care for them in their old age and the burden won't just fall on an only child!  No wonder the oldest girl said she had no desire to have any children when she grows up! (she has been there , done that and got the tee shirt). the drinking and smoking were unforgivable although at the end of the programme they said that the family had been moved to a larger house and the parents now smoke out of doors and not all over those young children.

I had more sympathy for the single mother who was disabled and had a teenage son to care for her.

[Tresco]

I can't really comment on the programme itself, because I didn't see it.

I worked with/for people with disabilities for 4 years, and as Coco suggests, people who are registered as blind often confound most sighted peoples understandings and expectations regarding this disability.

Leaving the specific issue of blindness aside, there are many, many thousands of children who are 'carers' in UK, and I would hazrd a guess that there are even more in France.

It's important to remember that people with disabilities are people, and they are capable of the very best behaviours, and the very worst, the same as anyone else.

The one thing I would say about the programme, as reported here, is that the makers were guilty of using these girls and their situation. It sounds to me as though the examples given were those demonstrating the worst behaviours, rather than the best. I've seen both, and every thing in between. I suppose the 'best' or the average doesn't make for dramatic TV?

I'm not saying what has been reported here is right, or desirable, but taking children into care because their parents have babies for the wrong reasons...well I would have been in care if those were the grounds, and my older siblings would have been in care if their changing my nappy when they came home from school was deemed as beyond the whatever[:)]

Most of us (parents) muddle our way through in the end, and sometimes we are ashamed of the muddle, (rightly or wrongly) and then again, sometimes, some people who were in serious trouble, don't even think they were in a muddle to start with.

The examples given are very sad, but I suspect that's why they were chosen.

This may be one of those instances where public conception of what are routine horrors for many children, and people who work in the 'care' industry' suddenly becomes common knowledge. A 'Cathy Come Home' moment? 

If those of you who were so shocked have experienced it that way then it's a surprise to me, but I'm glad people are becoming more aware, on the whole.

 

 

 

.

[Wendy]

Dotty, 'selfish' is the word for these two people. In cases like this social services MUST step in and take control of the welfare of the two older children, and to an extent, the younger ones. There is plenty of assistance for the blind and if they wish to have a large family they must be made to accept responsibility for the care of that family themselves. Those two kids have no life and are being made to work like adults. I thought that was against the law!. Where is the parental guidance for any of these kids? I predict that these parents will find themsleves very much alone later on contrary to their assumptions that there will be plenty of kids to look after them...certainly the two eldest will shoot through as soon as they are able to to get away from their environment. Probably ALL those kids will do the same if all their parents have done is treat them like nursemaids all their young lives, and it will be their own faults.

[Russethouse]

Tresco, Perhaps this program was made as an example of how bad things can be, but there are often very heartwarming stories on daytime television, only last week a young girl who cared for her disabled mother and sister so that her father could continue working to support them, was on This Morning (had a much deserved makeover too !) Thats just one that comes to mind quickly.

[opas]

I worked with a girl whose parents were born blind. She told us  tales of a very "normal" upbringing, infact she said she didn't think about her parents being blind.

I also used to take a man shopping , one of the duties I voluntered for when I worked at ASDA, this guy knew the store layout better than I did!  He would walk ME round the isles and stop me, he would say "about here you will find a tin of  peas ond carots by (brand) " I would be able to pick them streight up without even browsing!  This man was also looking afterhis poorly wife and would walk home with his shopping in a wheel trolley, no guide dog.

I assume then that these parents on yesterdays programe had someon to do their shopping.........who bought the booze and cigs?

[Patf]

Taking children into Care isn't always the answer to this type of situation. Where would they be placed? There's a shortage of acceptable foster placements. Would you do it? And for the older children themselves it would be terribly traumatic as they must see themselves as keeping the family going . We shouldn't impose our own standards on other families. As Tresco says, many of us have made a mess of our childrens' upbringing at times but if anyone had tried to take mine away I would have fought tooth and nail. Whatever the faults of the adults, they are their Mum and Dad and all they have known. I've known many examples of children living through much worse experiences than this and not "letting on" to the authorities because they're terrified of being removed, or the parent incarcerated etc. It sounds as if the family needs a surrogate granny-type person to visit regularly for support and supervision. There used to be organisations which provide this kind of service. Pat.

[Dick Smith]

It depends on your point of view. I once had a kid in my year who was voted 'Young Person of the Year' for acting as a carer to her parents. She had no objection to it at all, and was a great young woman. I'm sure it restricted, and seriously so, her options, but at her age she wasn't complaining. I've no idea how she feels now, of course.

My main concern is that in these circumstances social workers are quite happy to avoid their responsibilities because someone else is taking the strain, and there may be very little support or respite for the family carers.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]It depends on your point of view. I once had a kid in my year who was voted 'Young Person of the Year' for acting as a carer to her parents. She had no objection to it at all, and was a great young woman. I'm sure it restricted, and seriously so, her options, but at her age she wasn't complaining. I've no idea how she feels now, of course.

My main concern is that in these circumstances social workers are quite happy to avoid their responsibilities because someone else is taking the strain, and there may be very little support or respite for the family carers.

[/quote]

True, true.

I didn't watch the program myself as we haven't got CH4. I had to put up with watching N Sarkozy being ineffectively roasted by the electorate. I must say, given that it was live and they really could have asked whatever they wanted, they were very polite in the main. Even the ones who really didn't like him missed the chance to lay in. Still, never mnd: we've got the Great Le Pen next week. Should be interesting.

There are plenty of people who regard caring for relatives, culturally, as a duty, no more, no less, and it would never occur to many of these that resentment was an option.

Even so, if the parents were incapable of changing nappies during the day, what were they doing about feeding and suchlike? Could it have been a made-up-for-television special? Plenty of programs about moving to France and starting a new life seem to come from that that school of investigative journalism...

[Dick Smith]

I certainly wouldn't put it past some 'researchers' to shove 200 Marlboro and a couple of bottles of Scotch in their general direction just before shooting starts...

I'm always highly sceptical of these programmes which are, after all, just an invitation for the majority to despise some unfortunate who doesn't see the point, or even worse, needs the money. Just like Bumfighting...

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]Just like Bumfighting...

[/quote]

Bumfighting!!??? I this some reality TV program about flatulance??? Nothing would surprise me after Celebrity Love Island. Let me guess - the contestents have to eat a particularly fibre rich diet and then see who can raise the most decibels. Actually, that sounds quite a lot better than Celebrity Love Island.

Wasn't there a famous TV presenter (Ricky Lake? I can't remember) whose researchers got caught up in just this sort of thing? Framing the questions with the aid of some used notes, I mean, not breaking wind into a microphone.

[Miki]

[quote] Just like Bumfighting...[/quote]

Do they use swords, daggers, pistols, 16oz gloves, the mind boggles.

I do quite agree, the production would have no hesitation in bunging them fags and booze to get a result. None of these type of programmes ever give the full story, ever !!

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Jon"][quote user="Dick Smith"]Just like Bumfighting...
[/quote]

Wasn't there a famous TV presenter (Ricky Lake? I can't remember) whose researchers got caught up in just this sort of thing? Framing the questions with the aid of some used notes, I mean, not breaking wind into a microphone.
[/quote]

Vanessa Feltz ?

[Dick Smith]

Bumfighting was the charming practice of paying homeless people, alcoholics, mentally ill people etc., to fight each other for money or booze. The results were filmed for general delectation.

The videos are banned in the UK but still available.

Not an urban myth, either, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumfights_1

[Coco]

Changing the topic slightly but still on terrible TV.  Did anyone see the latest reality programme? .... WAGS Boutique.  I couldn't believe just how aweful it was and when you know how much poverty there is even in the UK to see these, well "dumb blondes" is way, way too polite for the mindless, ignorant, spoilt, selfish, vain  eejits that are sleeping with equally dumb footballers in order to get access to their platinum cards, spending so much money on shoes, handbags and clothes.

If you've ever read "Dumb Britain" in Private Eye, the questions these girls asked when doing a test at the London School of Fashion were beyond belief and made the Dumb Britain questions look pretty bright!  And one of them, when doing a "brainstorm" on names for their boutique asked another what relevance the name "Eleven" would have to them.  The second girl told her that it was because they were footballers girlfriends and that there are 11 players in a team, to which the first said "oh, I ditn't know vat".

I sincerely hope their fees are going to charity!!!

[Unknown]

Perhaps the scene was set by the production company and the questions loaded, this is something we will never know.  However, based on what I saw, it was pretty grim. 

I fully support family taking care of one another, both my parents are from large families, so this is not a new concept to me.  My own daughter helps me with her two younger brothers, particulary where homework is concerned, I'm still learning to read in French so not much help on the hoemwork front. 

My mother is the eldest of nine kids and her youngest brother is 16 years younger than her.  She helped raise her youngest siblings and is very resentfull for having to do so.  She left home at 18 and moved to another country to get as far away as possible.  She has had a very distant relationship with her parents since then and I think it has really messed her up.

Obviously times have changed and there is supposedly a support network for young kids like the ones on the programme, but to my mind, what I saw last night, was not far off abuse.

[Dick Smith]

Found this on the Metro website:

Nicola Tappenden, 24, a Page 3 model who has been with West Ham striker Bobby Zamora for around two years, is also appearing.

She told today how her boyfriend installed a 6ft-wide photograph of her breasts in the couple's bedroom.

And Julie Phillips, wife of West Bromwich Albion

striker and former England player Kevin Phillips, will be joining them.

She used to manage a fashion store, which went bankrupt, and was

flashing a £79,000 engagement ring today.

What a shining example of good taste - and to think I used to like Kevin Phillips...

[JohnM]

May I return to the original topic for a moment... I work in a Newsroom and sadly, you are quite right about a lot of journalists (but not all), they tend to see a "story" and forget that there are people attached to it. Some years ago a body was found in a local park on a Bank Holiday Monday, most staff were quite upset, but the head of news (a hard nosed hack that had come up through local papers), was seen skipping round the newsroom singing "We've got a stiff" because, until then it had been a slow news day. I understand that they are under great pressure to get a story and then to make it as interesting as possible because (sadly) "we" seem to like sensationalist stuff, but it's not nice.

[Miki]

[quote] What a shining example of good taste - and to think I used to like Kevin Phillips...[/quote]

Come on Dick, get over him man, he wasn't your type and you must know in your heart, there was no way was he going to spend 79 large ones on an engagement ring for you [:)]

Whilst having a bit of a tidy up and doing a bit of out of season maintenance, we got talking about "Reality TV" etc. And we both came to the conclusion, British TV has to be putting out the TV programmes demanded surely ? All this crap TV is all to the detriment of other programmes, which may, or may not be better (couldn't be worse in my opinion) but it can only survive if it gets the viewing figures and there's the rub..........................We are now watching less and less, not neccessarily because we don't want to watch TV but this total rubbish is now taking over................luckily I like music and I get all the sport (mainly togger) I need from another satellite.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Coco"]

Changing the topic slightly but still on terrible TV.  Did anyone see the latest reality programme? .... WAGS Boutique.  I couldn't believe just how aweful it was and when you know how much poverty there is even in the UK to see these, well "dumb blondes" is way, way too polite for the mindless, ignorant, spoilt, selfish, vain  eejits that are sleeping with equally dumb footballers in order to get access to their platinum cards, spending so much money on shoes, handbags and clothes.

If you've ever read "Dumb Britain" in Private Eye, the questions these girls asked when doing a test at the London School of Fashion were beyond belief and made the Dumb Britain questions look pretty bright!  And one of them, when doing a "brainstorm" on names for their boutique asked another what relevance the name "Eleven" would have to them.  The second girl told her that it was because they were footballers girlfriends and that there are 11 players in a team, to which the first said "oh, I ditn't know vat".

I sincerely hope their fees are going to charity!!!

[/quote]

I heard this morning that Danielle of BB 'fame' thought that Winston Churchill was our first black Prime Minister on the basis that the statue she saw of him was black [:(][:(]

You could laugh if it wasn't so desperate......

Didn't she go out with Teddy Sheringham ?