Titulaire S1 (E121) and non paymant of social charges.

[David]

When filing my tax return by paper I wrote "Titulaire de Formulaire S1 (E121), donc pas a la charge de L'Assurance Maladie.  Revenues 1AS et 1BS exoneres de la charges sociale" on the forms.

This year I have to file online, so I would be grateful if anyone could tell me how I make this point about not paying social charges because I have an E121 in the online declaration.

Any assistance gratefully received.

David

[andyh4]

I assume since you have an E121 that your income is basically pensions earned in another country.

If that is the case this year these are not declared in AS1/BS1 but in AL1/BL1 and AM1/BM1.

That I think will be sufficient to show to the tax authority that social charges are made elsewhere and should not be charged again in France - but of course I could be wrong.

Your previous declaration of holding the E121 will still be on record.

[EmilyA]

We haven't got to the end of ours yet, but there should be a chance to add that as a note. On ours it will already be there and we click reporter to carry it forward.

[EmilyA]

Just finished. There was a box to tick near the end where you could add a note for anything to draw to their attention (actual wording was something like anything you are doubtful about). It opened a text box where we added "titre de formulaire S1 etc".

May be no longer necessary because of change of boxes on declaration for pension income but decided to be on the safe side...

[David]

Thanks for that Emily, thanks to these very helpful posts I have now completed filling out my tax on paper forms and I am ready to start on line.

Presumably you can also declare UK bank accounts in this text box?

David

[David]

Thanks for that Andy about the AS1 vs AM1 boxes, very clear and helpful.

David

[pomme]

You should use form 3916 to declare non-French accounts.

http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/download/telecharger-83-cerfa-3916-declarer-un-compte-bancaire-a-l-etranger

Pour déclarer un compte bancaire ouvert à l'étranger au fisc français, vous devez utiliser ce formulaire cerfa 3916 disponible ici en téléchargement. Cette déclaration doit être faite en même temps que votre déclaration de revenus (ou que la déclaration de résultat s'il s'agit d'un compte bancaire d'une entreprise). Ce formulaire vous permet de fournir aux impôts les informations concernant les références du compte bancaire : banque gestionnaire, pays, numéro de compte, date d'ouverture, etc. Si vous avez plusieurs comptes bancaires ouverts à l'étranger, vous devez remplir plusieurs déclarations.

[EmilyA]

Yes 3916 for the accounts. It is a pain the first time but then they pop up ready completed the next year.

[Judith]

Beat me to it Emily, I was about to say that.  You have to tell it to transfer the info across (term forgotten), but it is worth it, especially if you have a lot of accounts.  You get a chance to change anything once the forms are loaded onto the system.

[woolybanana]

!!!!

[cajal]

We have used the on-line tax declaration for what seems eons.

When we were completing a paper declaration our impot office told us not to bother including a 3916 declaration and that we should file it at home and should they require it they would contact us.

With this in mind we created an accounts document on our computer which we update during January and now include a note with the online declaration stating the account information is up to date and available should they require it. It has yet to be requested.

[suein56]

cajal wrote :

... and now include a note with the online declaration stating the account information is up to date and available should they require it. It has yet to be requested.

You don't say where you live but your post just goes to show how different each area can be.

If you did that where we live you would receive a phone call the very next morning asking why the list of accounts had not been updated. And I am talking online here as I, too, have declared that way since the beginning when 20€ was offered as an inducement.

Sue

[NormanH]

I don't want to start off a false trail, but I have a feeling that I was instructed not to send any justificatifs this year but to keep them ready if asked for

[suein56]

Norman if you are talking about a online declaration then nothing physical is sent in to the tax office but notification is made via reporting for example that you want to declare the same list of 3916 that you included the previous year. The option is also given to add 'new' accounts or delete others.

Edit : It seems some offices are more picky than others.

Sue

[sueyh]

We are in the opposite situation regarding S1. Until February 2016 we were in the health system on S1 due to the fact that hubby was on incapacity benefit. He lost this benefit and we then applied to join the French health system and thankfully were accepted. Do we need to state anywhere on the tax form our new status or will it automatically be picked up.

Thanks in advance

Suey

[Jazzer]

Your information here was most helpful. However I am having some brain freeze. There seems to be extra boxes this year : Nature of income public or private . I assume public is OAP and private is company pension.

Thanks again

[andyh4]

No

company pensions and OAP are regarded as private (please don't ask me why, that is just how it is).

Government service pensions are public - Teachers, Military, some NHS, functionaires as the French would understand it.

[cajal]

andy4 wrote: "(please don't ask me why, that is just how it is)".

I believe it is so because with regards to the State pension all recipients have been required to fulfill a commitment to contribute via NIC for a specific amount of time to be eligible and these pensions are received without a tax deduction and are not subsidised by the taxpayer.

As for a civil servant style pension an individual is obliged to contribute a set % of salary which the employer, I believe, contributes a similar or greater amount, although I understand that in the past certain civil service style employees, as part of their contract, would be in receipt of a non- contributary pension (100% taxpayer subsidised). 

Because civil service style occupations are ultimately funded directly or indirectly by the government whom, as we all know, has no money but is reliant on tax payer contributions it is therefore universally agreed that any taxation generated from these pension should remain within the financial system of the issuing country, ie within the public purse as they are ultimately subsidised by the taxpayer.

Therefore, France perceives any other form of pension income over and above a civil sevice style pension as fair game, including state pensions, for taxation purposes and they are all referred to as private pensions because they are not subject to taxpayer subsidy.

I'm sure the above will be picked apart if deemed incorrect.

[andyh4]

That makes as much sense as anything else. The only thing I would pick up on is that you say the OAP is not eligible for a tax, which strictly is not so. OAP is eligible for tax, but if other incomes do not bring you above the tax threshold you pay no tax. But taxable and eligible to be used in your tax calculation it certainly is.

[cajal]

[quote user="andyh4"]That makes as much sense as anything else. The only thing I would pick up on is that you say the OAP is not eligible for a tax, which strictly is not so. [/quote]

Ugh,ugh. What I actually stated was:

"and these pensions are received 'without a tax deduction' and are not subsidised by the taxpayer".

which is not the same as saying: 'they are not taxable'.

On receipt of these pensions, that have not been taxed at source, a recipient I believe is required to fill out a self assesment tax return annually for the Internal Revenue Service to assess, if any, their tax liability.

[andyh4]

OK I think I understand that subtle distinction, but have no idea if it is true or not. Are OAPS able to receive their pension free of tax no matter what their tax code? You are probably right and the onus to reduce the tax is on the others - why do it yourself if you can give the job to other income generators - and fine them if they get it wrong.

[mint]

Put another way, the OAP is paid gross.

From last year, bank interest up to 1000 pounds is also paid gross.  And both are declarable for French tax purposes.

[cajal]

[quote user="andyh4"]OK I think I understand that subtle distinction, but have no idea if it is true or not. Are OAPS able to receive their pension free of tax no matter what their tax code? You are probably right and the onus to reduce the tax is on the others - why do it yourself if you can give the job to other income generators - and fine them if they get it wrong.[/quote]

The UK government pays all state pensions free of tax, because if that is your only source of income then you will not be liable for tax as it falls within the personal allowance.

Your observation above is, I believe, correct in as much that if you are in receipt of income other than a State pension then the payer of that extra income is responsible for your tax affairs whether you exceed the personal allowance or not.

[Jazzer]

Thanks again. That's why the doubt came in!