How do you fix the UK

[YCCMB]

I certainly agree with Kathy. I'd also go so far as to say that anyone who does leave the UK to live abroad should, as a matter of course, immediately forfeit their right to vote, on the grounds that I don't want to find myself living under a set  of rules or legislation voted for by people who don't live here anymore and don't have to live with the consequences. It's not the immigrants that are determined to mess up the UK, it's the flipping emigrants!!

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Betty, you can be assured, since leaving the UK over 12 years ago, I have never once voted in UK elections (why should I? I don't live there). In fact I have only ever voted once in my life and Tony Blair got into power. Never voted since. The fact that I haven't had the opportunity to vote since is besides the point.

[YCCMB]

Jolly good. But can you vouch for the rest?[:D]

[Gastines]

Dear Superman. I was putting forward an opinion.Are we allowed to without getting a load of sarcasm in return? Yes, I admit to perusing the Mail but add the Times and Telegraph plus this Forum to that. By the way ,I think the French have pretty strong views on Immigrants, so I pay my way and usually keep my trap shut. I also think an open Forum like this ,does allow members to express a view,an opinion,even if it may be their own ,through rosy tinted glasses or whatever.

Regards.

3 replies today,I must get out more.

[smudge]

WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT Labour to win the next election the UK has gone to pot since they came to power they have no leadership i wish i could move to France and enjoy a better way of life, i am not saying the torys or libs are any better but i believe they should be given a chance.

[buelligan]

Gastines ranted; The only residents of the U.K. not affected or not abiding to the numerous proposals,rules and regulations ,seems to be the Immigrant and Traveller population...

...if only we had more cattle trucks and a longer railroad into the east...eh?!

[woolybanana]

Bullsdung. UK needs a consensus to achieve a sense of duty beyond rights so that those who behave in an unacceptable manner are reprimanded and brought into line with public agreement. Not a public sector and PC community which pulls in one direction whilst a smaller and smaller number create the wealth which the others pour into their own pockets ans into more and more stupid laws.

Thus, communities which do not conform will receive public disapproval and reform.

This is achieved through education and the discipline achieved in wartime situations.

 

[buelligan]

Are you replying to my post WoolyB?  I am sorry.  I have read your post several times, even tried arranging the words in a different order, but cannot quite work out what you are commenting on.  I apologise in advance if I have offended you.[:)]

[Gastines]

Buelligan,a slightly over the top response to my posting.Wooly's reply regarding education and the same laws applying to all groups is perhaps a more balanced reply,don't you think?

Regards.

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="Gastines"]Dear Superman. I was putting forward an opinion.Are we allowed to without getting a load of sarcasm in return? Yes, I admit to perusing the Mail but add the Times and Telegraph plus this Forum to that. By the way ,I think the French have pretty strong views on Immigrants, so I pay my way and usually keep my trap shut. I also think an open Forum like this ,does allow members to express a view,an opinion,even if it may be their own ,through rosy tinted glasses or whatever.

Regards.

3 replies today,I must get out more.[/quote]

Dear Gastines

Thank you for replying. I think your earlier post was a bit of a rant but, as you say, you are permitted to state an opinion. I'm sorry you thought my reply to be sarcastic (that was the intent of my earlier post in this thread) but I do get cross when I see what I perceive to be unsubstantiated and insubstantial attacks on a country which has been very good to me.

I do know that there are major problems facing Britain at the moment (as there are major problems facing France, too) but I don't think that they can be solved by xenophobia. Spain (I am led to believe) has the largest immigrant population in Europe and has considered (or perhaps decided, I'm sure someone will inform us) legalising their presence.

I still don't know what you meant by "proposals, rules and regulations" or where the racism is.

[Quillan]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I certainly agree with Kathy. I'd also go so far as to say that anyone who does leave the UK to live abroad should, as a matter of course, immediately forfeit their right to vote, on the grounds that I don't want to find myself living under a set  of rules or legislation voted for by people who don't live here anymore and don't have to live with the consequences. It's not the immigrants that are determined to mess up the UK, it's the flipping emigrants!!

[/quote]

I quite agree Betty but then I don';t think that many bother to vote anyway.

Talking of people leaving the UK I also think they should loose their rights to a state pension. Given that its the 'now people' that are actually paying for those that recieve OAP then why should they have to pay for those that have left the UK and taken their wealth with them.

[Gastines]

Dear Superman and "Others". I do not want any immigrants shot nor any travellers,new-age or tree-huggers, I just wish that if you want to live in ANY country and ask to be welcomed with open arms,that you abide by the laws and society rules of that country. As for knocking the UK, my wife and I expect to return there shortly,we will be able to pay our own way and don't expect the UK coffers to have to pay for anything we haven't contributed to for about 49 years.The main problem with many now arriving in the UK seems to be that they come from countries with a completely different culture and have no regard for the laws of a civilised society.I don't believe that the UK can afford to accept all and sundry as the many services required seem to be at breaking point now.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I certainly agree with Kathy. I'd also go so far as to say that anyone who does leave the UK to live abroad should, as a matter of course, immediately forfeit their right to vote, on the grounds that I don't want to find myself living under a set  of rules or legislation voted for by people who don't live here anymore and don't have to live with the consequences. It's not the immigrants that are determined to mess up the UK, it's the flipping emigrants!!

[/quote]

I quite agree Betty but then I don';t think that many bother to vote anyway.

Talking of people leaving the UK I also think they should loose their rights to a state pension. Given that its the 'now people' that are actually paying for those that recieve OAP then why should they have to pay for those that have left the UK and taken their wealth with them.

[/quote]

Because they paid for their pension  ?

In any case all that would do is give rise to lots of fiddles where people retained residency somehow but actually lived abroad....

[Quillan]

[quote user="Gastines"]Dear Superman and "Others". I do not want any immigrants shot nor any travellers,new-age or tree-huggers, I just wish that if you want to live in ANY country and ask to be welcomed with open arms,that you abide by the laws and society rules of that country. As for knocking the UK, my wife and I expect to return there shortly,we will be able to pay our own way and don't expect the UK coffers to have to pay for anything we haven't contributed to for about 49 years.The main problem with many now arriving in the UK seems to be that they come from countries with a completely different culture and have no regard for the laws of a civilised society.I don't believe that the UK can afford to accept all and sundry as the many services required seem to be at breaking point now.[/quote]

Who is to say who is civilised and who isn't, its all a matter of perspective. People in the UK scream out for higher penalties for theft for example but then disapprove of countries that say cut peoples hands off if caught.

I don't think that in the long run stopping immigration is a good thing, no I am not changing my tune, I simply think its a good idea for say a year or 18 months whilst new laws are put in place and the backlogs can be sorted the UK should stop accepting immigrants. A breathing space as it were. After that then allow immigrants by all means with no restriction on colour, religion etc. What the limit should be, like many other countries, is that you are not a drain on the resources of the country to which you emigrate. So immigrants going to the UK should be perhaps 'sponsored' or at least have proof of a job on arrival and yes to protect UK jobs they should be jobs where the skill-sets are in short supply or non existent. Don't forget that for immigrants that are successful under such a scheme are also getting their job protected from immigrants as well. They should also be made to take UK citizenship and the use of dual passports/nationality should be banned.

[Dog]

[quote user="buelligan"]

...if only we had more cattle trucks and a longer railroad into the east...eh?!

[/quote]

...Zirkon B was made in France...

[buelligan]

Gastines wrote:[quote]Buelligan,a slightly over the top response to my posting.Wooly's reply regarding education and the same laws applying to all groups is perhaps a more balanced reply,don't you think?
Regards. [/quote]

...talk about the pot calling the kettle of possible non-aryan descent!  However, I am all for balance!  Bring it on I say (but you go first)![:D]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I certainly agree with Kathy. I'd also go so far as to say that anyone who does leave the UK to live abroad should, as a matter of course, immediately forfeit their right to vote, on the grounds that I don't want to find myself living under a set  of rules or legislation voted for by people who don't live here anymore and don't have to live with the consequences. It's not the immigrants that are determined to mess up the UK, it's the flipping emigrants!!

[/quote]

I quite agree Betty but then I don';t think that many bother to vote anyway.

Talking of people leaving the UK I also think they should loose their rights to a state pension. Given that its the 'now people' that are actually paying for those that receive OAP then why should they have to pay for those that have left the UK and taken their wealth with them.

[/quote]

Because they paid for their pension  ?

In any case all that would do is give rise to lots of fiddles where people retained residency somehow but actually lived abroad....

[/quote]

Thats how it should be and we assume it is. The reality is that governments (from all parties) have raided it time after time. Nobody made a law that says, like say a solicitor does with money, have to put the pensions in one great bank account which cannot under any circumstances be used for anything else other than paying out pensions.

Was it TB who said when the tanker drivers went on strike that if they couldn't sell petrol then after something like 8 weeks (I can't remember exactly) there would be no money left to pay the OAP. So in reality its those that currently work and spend their money in the UK that pay the actual money that pensioners receive. So basically you handed your money over when you worked and somebody nicked it and spent it on stupid things. What different governments have done over the years with the OPA makes what that newspaper chap (who's name escapes me for the moment but you know who I mean) who topped himself look quite innocent.

[KathyF]

[quote user="Quillan"] So immigrants going to the UK should be perhaps 'sponsored' or at least have proof of a job on arrival and yes to protect UK jobs they should be jobs where the skill-sets are in short supply or non existent. Don't forget that for immigrants that are successful under such a scheme are also getting their job protected from immigrants as well. They should also be made to take UK citizenship and the use of dual passports/nationality should be banned.[/quote]

I take it that what's sauce for the UK goose is also sauce for the French gander, Quillan?  Hands up the immigrants to France on this thread who had job sponsors when they arrived or who have renounced their UK citizenship.....[Www]

[Quillan]

If I wanted to stay here and that became the rule then I would have to comply or go, simple really. Anyway after the health changes unless you have to have some form of income on which you can pay for your health care, are retired and have an E121 or an E106 whilst looking for work. What you can't be is a drain on their resources. Anyway we have a right to be here as EU citizens, see how the French treat non EU citizens and thats who we are talking about.

[velcorin]

Quillan, I hope you are merely stirring, rather than totally misunderstanding the UK system of state pension provision.

I will however humour you and play the game. Money paid into the "system" is used to pay current drawers of the benefit, ie your contributions were used to pay your parents' and their generations' state pension. Always has been, always will be. When I return to the UK my contributions will be used to pay your pensions. There is no "pot" to raid. Occupational and private pensions are obviously calculated, and provided for, differently.

My French pension, is part of a "pot", which has been totally emptied over the years, and the Government acknowledges this fact annually, when it it releases the various Budget, CMU, and pension deficiet figures. I always find it a bit bizarre that no one seems to bother about these figures. It worries me, as basically my state pension will have to be paid out of loans obtained by a quasi-sovereign agency, instead of accounting these figures directly into French national debt. Or maybe Plan B is jsut not to pay any pension at all when I retire in 30 odd years.

[Dog]

[quote user="Richard"]I think they should introduce birth licences. If you want a sprog, you have to go on a training course (which you pay for) and must pass several very strict exams. Only those with the ability to pay for the course and pass it are allowed to give birth. This instantly should exclude the ASBO culture from having children as a) they won't be able to afford it and b) they wouldn't have the intelligence to pass it anyway.

Anyone who falls pregnant outside of this permit scheme would be shot. This also saves money on abortions too.

Is that right wing enough to join the clan? [;-)]
[/quote]

 

I have had a similar idea for some time. My idea is that when children are 10 they get a certificate that allows them one child when they are old enough. These certificates are transferable. You must have one to breed - without one you lose benefits and tax relief.

People who want large families will have to buy these certificates to breed. The value of the certificates will be quite high and most kids will sell them to buy Playstations and recreational drugs.

The idea is they will breed less.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I think the Chinese already have something like that in place. You're only allowed one sprog and if you have another you get hit hard.

Just too many people on this planet now.

[Weedon]

[quote user="Richard"]I think the Chinese already have something like that in place. You're only allowed one sprog and if you have another you get hit hard.
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, exactly where and with what, do they hit the miscreants?  [blink]

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Weedon"]

[quote user="Richard"]I think the Chinese already have something like that in place. You're only allowed one sprog and if you have another you get hit hard.

[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, exactly where and with what, do they hit the miscreants?  [blink]

[/quote]

Don't they use tanks?

[Clair]

[quote user="Weedon"]Just out of curiosity, exactly where and with what, do they hit the miscreants?  [blink][/quote]

I read somewhere that in case of an "unauthorised" pregnancy, the midwife ensures the baby does not take a breath and is somehow always found to be dead at birth. I remember the mention of a syringe being used just as the head crowns.

Of course, it could be all fiction...