buelligan Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Richard enquired;[quote]Just a question dog, if the whole world suddenly became vegetarian, would the planet be able to cope with demand?[/quote]Sorry to "push in", please don't take this answer to be definitive or considered but you may find this of interest: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_meat_production[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Scooby"]Sorry Dog but we have killed animals and eaten them (for chickens it's either pull and twist until the neck snaps or a sharp knife, halal style). For larger animals we usually use our (small) local abbatoir - because they kill them in a more humane way than we are able to. The one thing I would say is that when you have raised and slaughtered an animal you don't waste food - to me that is sacrilege. If we have killed an animal then I make sure none is wasted.[/quote]Thank you Scooby for your contribution - I am sure you feel that you can live with your choice. Why do you feel you can kill chickens and yet your local slaughterhouse can do a better job for larger animals? Do you thinkjsize of an abbatoir makes it a better place?Where we differ is that I think eating sentient creatures is sacrilige - do you think vegetablists waste food?What do you do with the eyes, nostrils, hair and skin, do you really eat the offal? very few meat eaters do today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Dog"]Thank you Scooby for your contribution - I am sure you feel that you can live with your choice. Why do you feel you can kill chickens and yet your local slaughterhouse can do a better job for larger animals? Do you thinkjsize of an abbatoir makes it a better place?[/quote]We don't have a stun gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Dog"][quote user="Théière"][quote user="Dog"] [quote user="Quillan"]I don't have a problem with vegetarians, its their choice and good for them. What I do object to as a meat eater myself why they seem to have a problem with us meat eaters. I have no axe to grind with anyone on this subject so why can't vegetarians leave us meat eaters alone. All they do when they go on these 'don't eat meat' crusades is build animosity towards themselves from meat eaters. I am sorry but I am not about to change my eating habits for anyone for whatever reason. To my mind those that do go on and attack us for eating meat are no better than having a JW knocking on the door.[/quote] Are meat eaters so sensitive and poor weak things that any idea that they should change their habits mummy taught them must be ignored. So if Mummy was a vegetarian would the same apply?The animosity that is shown is by meat eaters imposing their diet on poor unfortunate creatures. Have only seen One person imposing their view, any clues as to who that might be?Perhaps you should get an axe to grind - be careful though you may cut yourself. Who is grinding the axe? twenty four hours ago you started on a Halal threadThe only crusade is by meat eaters on animals. 1.5 million years can't be wrong If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one? Look at my dinner plateThe JW suggestion is ludicrous as they eat meat. (Why is there an anti-JW thing going on - they are no worse than many other cults). Being a member of a cult is one thing, turning up on someones door step and boring the pants off you is anotherPerhaps for you an insight into understanding might be to transpose vegetarians with non-masons and freemasonry for meat eating? Freemasonry for the Masons! not the bankers, lawyers etc (off your topic but just how I feel)I doubt if you have the capacity to change - perhaps you are too entrenched in selfish comfortable ways and ignoring reality. I have the capacity to change, 28 years ago I changed from a vegetarian into an omnivoreIf you hadn't noticed vegetarians have left meat eaters alone - they did not start this thread. They have certainly made up for lost time! It is a thread about HalalQuite how as meat eating majority you feel threatened is beyond me - what really threatens you is you realise your ideals are wrong and prefer to make a fools defence. I don't feel threatened or frightened I simply choose to eat vegetarians[/quote][/quote]For someone that didn't even know what halal is and hasn't watched it in person you have quite an entrenched view. Now that line is just not trueAfter 1.5 million years is this as far as the human race gets? Probably, but soon people will be eating GM crops (plant DNA spliced with animal DNA)Your animosity is obvious - at least I don't eat the objects of my derision. I don't deride the animals or vegetables I eat, something has given its life for me.I think you may be closer to being a JW than you imagine. I can think of plenty of others before I would go near a JW.I doubt if your understanding of what imposing means. LikewiseAs I am sure you know it is not just meat that is halal, not one meateater has mentioned this?? Scooby has metioned itIs it because you do not really understand what you are eating and don't really care or just don't want to know? Amino acids, lipids, carbohydrates, vitamins including B12 and gravy [:)] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Crikey! That was like a piranha feeding frenzy! Talk about blood in the water! OK....Now......breeeeeathe....aannnnd.....relaaaxxx![:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="buelligan"]you may find this of interest:[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_meat_production[/url][/quote]Is the problem over farming or is it population explosion?? An alternative method of reducing food (and hence meat consumption) would be to allow natural causes to take their effect in managing population. There is something to be said for natural selection and survival of the fittest. (Before anyone jumps down my throat, this approach / philosophy was suggested by an Indian friend who thought the most significant negative impact on the future of the Indian sub continent was the 20th / 21st century view that all lives had to be saved and all illnesses treated...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Dog"] If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?[/quote]My personal justification for eating meat is that I like it. You justify not eating meat because you think its morally wrong to kill animals and eat them. Good for you, at the end of the day it comes down to individual choice. What I can never understand is why you have to be so nasty with those that don't agree with your point of view.My mother is dead and I would ask you not to pass comments that to me are both upsetting and offensive.[/quote]Liking something is not a justifications for doing it without regard.Likewise I cannot understand why anything you do not agree with is repellant.I am sorry your mother has passed away it must be most upsetting and something I have not yet suffered - please accept my condolences and I proffer my apologies for my accidental mention of something I had no knowledge of and had no intention of making malice through.I would however say your comments seem to be constructed to stifle open debate. I am deeply offended by many of the nasty comments you have aimed my way but I have broad shoulders and it is better to talk than make war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="buelligan"]Richard enquired;[quote]Just a question dog, if the whole world suddenly became vegetarian, would the planet be able to cope with demand?[/quote]Sorry to "push in", please don't take this answer to be definitive or considered but you may find this of interest: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_meat_production[/url][/quote]Can't disagree with that buelligan, I would expect similar if we were all vegetarian as the bottom line is the world is over populated and cannot support the the amount of food required with resorting to modifying landscapes, crops etc.As a stupid report the other day claimed that cows produce too much methane and we should be vegetarian to reduce the methane by limiting the cattle. They have five stomachs for processing the vegetation, we have one so we, who are also the greater number would in total produce a lot more methane [+o(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Mmmm... Wise words, Théière, I know of one or two (no names, no pack-drill) who may be responsible for a surprisingly large tranche of the global hot air output....[:)]BTW, has the bell gone for Round 2? I suddenly feel rather invigorated. Perhaps it is time to put a bit of pacifist stick about....[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="buelligan"]Mmmm... Wise words, Théière, I know of one or two (no names, no pack-drill) who may be responsible for a surprisingly large tranche of the global hot air output....[:)][/quote]Tis ok Bue - no need to explain, we understand and we won't talk about you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's quite strange, I haven't met many vegetarians in my life, but in the space of 5 days I have come across 3, two of which do not have a problem with others eating meat as it is non of their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Dog"] If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?[/quote]My personal justification for eating meat is that I like it. You justify not eating meat because you think its morally wrong to kill animals and eat them. Good for you, at the end of the day it comes down to individual choice. [/quote]Sorry missed that dig - You have put words into my mouth I do not only think it is morally wrong to eat sentient creatures I also avoid animal flesh for compassionate, environmental, conservation, efficiency, asthetic, health, agricultural and longevity reasons to name but a few- slightly more than I eat it 'cos I like it.Why should you impose your unhealthy appetites on the world? You'll be telling me smoking is good for health and the world next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Sorry missed the quote first time.. It's quite strange, I haven't met many vegetarians in my life, but in the space of 5 days I have come across 3, two of which do not have a problem with others eating meat as it is non of their business.It is everyones business how the resources of our planet are used and the way we treat sentient creatures.Do you show such a lenient view to other dubious practices?Perhaps working in a slaughterhouse for 3 months may change your mind.Would you prefer me to just agree with everything you say and we can drift into inane contentment this is after all a place for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Dog"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Dog"] If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?[/quote] [/quote]Sorry missed that dig - You have put words into my mouth I do not only think it is morally wrong to eat sentient creatures [/quote]So plants and vegetables have no sense of their surroundings and no conscious feelings, oh well that's alright then lets eat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelligan Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Scooby(s) wrote; [quote] buelligan wrote:Mmmm... Wise words, Théière, I know of one or two (no names, no pack-drill) who may be responsible for a surprisingly large tranche of the global hot air output....Tis ok Bue - no need to explain, we understand and we won't talk about you....[/quote]Hubris (possibly), paranoia (maybe), dissociative identity disorder (our guess is as good as, well, ours). OK! I give up! Why do you want to argue with me Scooby? I really, really do not want to hit you with my pacifist sctick![:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Théière"][quote user="Dog"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Dog"] If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?[/quote] [/quote]Sorry missed that dig - You have put words into my mouth I do not only think it is morally wrong to eat sentient creatures [/quote]So plants and vegetables have no sense of their surroundings and no conscious feelings, oh well that's alright then lets eat them.[/quote]We are getting somewhere - you have realised that plants are living - now there is no reason why you can justify killing and eating the higher life forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote user="Théière"]Plants have feelings too [Www][/quote]You patronising cellulose muncher, I posted the above on page one!I got somewhere 24 hours before you, is your diet lacking in something? Picking on lower life forms to eat...........just make s you a bully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Lol - I haven't chuckled so much in three minutes - I ignored it before - it is the usual counter argument meat eaters throw up to try and justify killing animals. I would suggest you read more on the subject.I guess you wrestle the bulls down before biting off their ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote user="Dog"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Dog"] If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?[/quote]My personal justification for eating meat is that I like it. You justify not eating meat because you think its morally wrong to kill animals and eat them. Good for you, at the end of the day it comes down to individual choice. [/quote]Sorry missed that dig - You have put words into my mouth I do not only think it is morally wrong to eat sentient creatures I also avoid animal flesh for compassionate, environmental, conservation, efficiency, asthetic, health, agricultural and longevity reasons to name but a few- slightly more than I eat it 'cos I like it.Why should you impose your unhealthy appetites on the world? You'll be telling me smoking is good for health and the world next...[/quote]It wasn't a dig and I am not putting words in to your mouth, it's what you have just said.If anyone thinks being a vegetarian is healthier and will allow you to live longer then I am afraid your misinformed. A healthy diet is a balanced diet be it with or without meat. It makes absolutely no difference what so ever. If you eat a balanced diet and exercise you live longer, simple. If on the other hand you are Vegan then you with live a shorter life than either a vegetarian or a meat eater. If the world stopped eating meat tomorrow then you really would have a big environmental, conservation, efficiency, health and agricultural problem, think about it. I'm not sure where asthetics comes in to banning meat!I think you make these abrasive and insulting comments because you don't have a valid argument. If you want to change peoples thinking it's much better to do it with a carrot (no pun intended) rather than a big stick as I have mentioned once before. You will find you get much better results. Nobody is asking you to agree with people eating meat only to agree that it's a choice, you have made yours and others have made there's. If you read through all the posts in this thread nobody has actually made any personally abusive or other comment about you being a vegetarian, its none of our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Âme Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 "If you eat a balanced diet and exercise you live longer, simple."Would that it were so simple and so certain. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 [quote user="Âme"]"If you eat a balanced diet and exercise you live longer, simple."Would that it were so simple and so certain. [;-)][/quote]Providing the other trillion things don't get you but generally true when it comes down to eating a balanced diet and you exercise. [;-)] If you ever have the chance to meet Vic (Vic's Big Walk) at 69 he is a prime example of what a good balanced diet and exercise can do for you. He is vegetarian but he will tell you its nothing to do with being a vegetarian its to do with a balanced diet plus the amount of excercise he does. His (2nd) wife (if I remember correctly) isn't but still eats a balanced diet and is also very fit and healthy, she also does a lot of walking with him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Wow, this is a completely unwinable argumant now. Dog`s attitude is that his viewpoint, and his alone, is the only right one and anything else is not worth contemplating.Either that or he is on a deliberate wind-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Gosh, if only it was so simple. If you could define right and wrong absolutely, life would be a piece of cake.Just goes to show how one man's wrong is another man's right. Completely subjective concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Âme Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes, Q, I was thinking of the other trillion things.Enjoying a croissant au beurre while I still can. [Www]Edit: Good idea, Richard. Cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Only carrot cake allowed though Âme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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