Halal meat . Are you happy to buy it ?

[Dog]

[quote user="Scooby"]Also passed pumpkin hour for me - and I have the delight of a two hour drive tomorrow to watch a 'spectacular' being put on by our new board of directors.  They plan to teach us their values.  As they are all bankers - and most of them assh*les to boot, I am delighted at the prospect.  I will bid you goodnight and pray I don't have nightmares tonight and that I can bite my tongue tomorrow.....
[/quote]

Do please tell tomorrow what we are all missing... Sleep well and have a good day tomorrow.

[Frederick]

I should think we have all eaten Halal meat on our travels and given little thought to it . I have eaten lots of meat from animals that have been shot perhaps some not cleanly . When in the supermarkets and I see "halal " labels I seem to automatically choose the other meat for no other reason than the thought it has been prepared for sombody else with religious principals different from mine and its meant for them . Given supermarkets in areas where the demand for halal meat is the greatest ..I understand their wish to put out only halal butchered meat on display It must be easier for them .But should we be given the right to choose if we want our meat from amimals butchered that way or just have to accept there it is take it or leave it .Why should a supermarket decide for me ?

[buelligan]

I agree Frederick but, I suppose, the supermarket would argue that you can go elsewhere to shop if you don't like their products (as they do/did with their provision of GM free food, Bio products, veggie options or anything else).  For my part, I have been a vegetarian for many years.  All my life I preferred meat as food to any other option (my mother used to call me a carnivore) but one day I realised that I really did not wish to cause suffering to other living things.  I had had a very unpleasant experience, during it I remember thinking "please, please, please don't let this happen...".  Afterwards, I realised that if I ever had the opportunity of saving another sentient being from undergoing a similar experience, I could not ignore their fervent desire to live and to escape suffering.  I realise that, by choosing not to eat meat, I am probably not saving any particular individual.  But it is the only choice I can make with a clear conscience. 

[dave21478]

I visit a slaughterhouse once a week, every week and have done for several months now. Times and days of the visit vary and not once -never- have I seen anything even remotely resembling mis-treatment or abuse by anyone. Yes, the staff are bored and yes, they realise they are in a dead-end (ho ho ho) job, but they dont use that as an excuse the do anything improperly.

The animals are stunned electrically and then bled - there is no unnecesary suffering at all.

I did once see a chicken escape from a cage, evade the workers who tried to trap it, bolt out the loading door, across the carpark and into the street, where it was run over trying to cross the road. Im sure there is some kind of metaphor in there somewhere!

[Dog]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Dog"][quote user="Théière"][quote user="Dog"]

It is true that if people saw the way their meat was slaughtered and had to pay the real cost they would realise there are better alternatives than eating slaughterhouse products. Its carried out in a humane way as shown by Hugh Fearnley whittingstall

I take it you have been in the presence of  Halaal slaughter? The sheep I saw slaughtered carried on breathing for over two minutes with their heads hacked off with a knife - was it crueler than the average UK standard slaughterhouse - probably not - at least the muslims take it seriously unlike the operatives in european slaughterhouses that have little or no beliefs and often abuse the process for fun as they are so bored and are none to bright. With the number of animals slaughtered even the slaughterhouse persons would have tired of abusing for fun. Saddly Dog that is really propaganda. 

If you then saw the corruption of meat processing - for instance meat past its sell by date coming back to be unpacked, scraped, sprayed with brightening chemicals then repacked and labelled for suckers to buy. In France, the Loire Valley to be precise, My Niece worked on a mushroom farm in the hillside underground just outside Chatellerault. There were no toilet facilities or hand washing facilities for the staff, many of whom "watered" the crops. Don't worry though because all of the mushrooms were washed in bleach to make them nice and white again.

I realise you are probably addicted to SHPs and cannot see a better way and will never enjoy tasty food full of life. Our food, and I shared a flat with veggies when I was at college is not full of life it's all death, be it animal or vegetable.

It will not be many years before meat eating is seen for what it is. Since Man (Homo erectus) has been around eating meat for 1.5 million years how many more will it be before it's seen for what it is (Food) [:)]

 

[/quote][/quote]

You obviously havent worked in a slaughterhouse  True- do you really think you will see what happens with HFW and the TV cameras there? Yes in that particular case I do, can you prove otherwise?

Do not think meat is produced in a benign fashion just because you have knowlege of a badly produced mushroom. a badly produced mushroom? a bloody great cave network of badly produced mushrooms

Open your eyes and mind. You too

[/quote][/quote]

That's the point I have opened my eyes wide in several slaughterhouses. Not watched TV.

I have worked in slaughterhouses and meat processing plants - strangely they wouldn't have let me photograph what I saw. I have no concrete proof - it's up to you if you believe what I saw with my own eyes. All of the abbatoirs and meat processing plants I worked at had similar bad, mad and evil practices going on in them.

[Dog]

[quote user="dave21478"]I visit a slaughterhouse once a week, every week and have done for several months now. Times and days of the visit vary and not once -never- have I seen anything even remotely resembling mis-treatment or abuse by anyone. Yes, the staff are bored and yes, they realise they are in a dead-end (ho ho ho) job, but they dont use that as an excuse the do anything improperly.

The animals are stunned electrically and then bled - there is no unnecesary suffering at all.

I did once see a chicken escape from a cage, evade the workers who tried to trap it, bolt out the loading door, across the carpark and into the street, where it was run over trying to cross the road. Im sure there is some kind of metaphor in there somewhere!


[/quote]

Just because you haven't seen it doen't mean that it is not happening there - they hardly know you well enough to enjoy the sadistic fun they have when bored. Stunning in different areas of the animal - sending the animal on unstunned. Seeing what happens when you use a captive bolt gun on different parts of an animal. Chucking pigs unstunned into dehairing vats of boiling water. These are just some of the less unsavoury things I have seen.

Then there's the white collar crimes - the vet stamps the carcass as inedible as the animal is diseased or has cancer - the stamp is rubbed off and restamped after the vet has left.

The meat industry is incredibly corrupt as there is so much money to be made from abusing the system. The workers are poorly paid and only the thick skinned and slightly unusual last the first day - I stayed through grim fascination and revulsion and because I needed work and have never taken government money.

I am sure you do not want to know about the links between animal abuse and serious violence on humans.

Do enjoy your meat not knowing quite what happened to the unfortunate beast in the abbatoir.

[Patf]

Another point - Halal meat is probably more expensive than normal meat. I know kosher meat is.

One of the reasons is that not all parts of the animal are eaten. Those parts not eaten are sold at a loss to non-kosher butchers so there's less edible from one cow and the price per kilo goes up. As muslim food laws are similar to jewish food laws the same probably applies to halal meat.

So why would you want to spend more on your meat than you need to?

 

[buelligan]

Dave said;[quote]The animals are stunned electrically and then bled - there is no unnecesary suffering at all.
[/quote]

Please believe me Dave, I ask this in the most gentle way - but, what is necessary suffering?

[Scooby]

We have kept livestock and my brother currently has a farm.  We have killed our animals and know what is involved.  I think anyone eating meat should be willing and able to kill their own food - or at least be prepared to watch their meat killed.  The problem now is that food is so removed from it's source - everything is sanitised such that children eating beef often don't realise that beef = cow.

[dave21478]

[quote user="buelligan"]

Dave said;[quote]The animals are stunned electrically and then bled - there is no unnecesary suffering at all.

[/quote]

Please believe me Dave, I ask this in the most gentle way - but, what is necessary suffering?

[/quote]

Being kept waiting in the cages untill slaughter cant be much fun for them, especially in the height of summer. The birds are then placed on a "conveyor" system, hanging by their feet, which carries them on towards the machine that stuns them, which probably isnt much fun for them either, but as soon as they touch the water, they are zapped unconcious and bled. Once bled, the usual plucking and gutting procedures are carried out. Whilst the last moments are probably not the birds fondest, its not exactly torture either.

Just because Dog claims to have seen these things in a slaughterhouse doesnt mean they are all like that - not in the slightest. The place I use processes chickens, guinea fowl, ducks,  rabbits and other small animals on a scale of numbers that I find frankly incredible and despite his claims to having some kind of insider knowledge on their operating methods and employment policy, there is no abuse.

[Quillan]

I don't have a problem with vegetarians, its their choice and good for them. What I do object to as a meat eater myself why they seem to have a problem with us meat eaters. I have no axe to grind with anyone on this subject so why can't vegetarians leave us meat eaters alone. All they do when they go on these 'don't eat meat' crusades is build animosity towards themselves from meat eaters. I am sorry but I am not about to change my eating habits for anyone for whatever reason. To my mind those that do go on and attack us for eating meat are no better than having a JW knocking on the door.

[buelligan]

I couldn't agree more Quillan.  Unfortunately, like meat eaters or any other group of humans, vegetarians are not a homogeneous group.  As far as I am concerned, it's a bit like the "Smoking Question", every person must choose their own path.  There can be no other way.[:)]

[Dog]

[quote user="Quillan"]I don't have a problem with vegetarians, its their choice and good for them. What I do object to as a meat eater myself why they seem to have a problem with us meat eaters. I have no axe to grind with anyone on this subject so why can't vegetarians leave us meat eaters alone. All they do when they go on these 'don't eat meat' crusades is build animosity towards themselves from meat eaters. I am sorry but I am not about to change my eating habits for anyone for whatever reason. To my mind those that do go on and attack us for eating meat are no better than having a JW knocking on the door.[/quote]

 

Are meat eaters so sensitive and poor weak things that any idea that they should change their habits mummy taught them must be ignored.

The animosity that is shown is by meat eaters imposing their diet on poor unfortunate creatures.

Perhaps you should get an axe to grind - be careful though you may cut yourself.

The only crusade is by meat eaters on animals.

If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?

The JW suggestion is ludicrous as they eat meat. (Why is there an anti-JW thing going on - they are no worse than many other cults).

Perhaps for you an insight into understanding might be to transpose vegetarians with non-masons and freemasonry for meat eating?

I doubt if you have the capacity to change - perhaps you are too entrenched in selfish comfortable ways and ignoring reality.

If you hadn't noticed vegetarians have left meat eaters alone -  they did not start this thread.

Quite how as meat eating majority you feel threatened is beyond me - what really threatens you is you realise your ideals are wrong and prefer to make a fools defence.

[Scooby]

Just spoken to my my muslim friend who said ditto - i.e.  no taboos on having blood transfusions etc.

[Théière]

[quote user="Dog"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I don't have a problem with vegetarians, its their choice and good for them. What I do object to as a meat eater myself why they seem to have a problem with us meat eaters. I have no axe to grind with anyone on this subject so why can't vegetarians leave us meat eaters alone. All they do when they go on these 'don't eat meat' crusades is build animosity towards themselves from meat eaters. I am sorry but I am not about to change my eating habits for anyone for whatever reason. To my mind those that do go on and attack us for eating meat are no better than having a JW knocking on the door.[/quote]

 

Are meat eaters so sensitive and poor weak things that any idea that they should change their habits mummy taught them must be ignored. So if Mummy was a vegetarian would the same apply?

The animosity that is shown is by meat eaters imposing their diet on poor unfortunate creatures. Have only seen One person imposing their view, any clues as to who that might be?

Perhaps you should get an axe to grind - be careful though you may cut yourself. Who is grinding the axe? twenty four hours ago you started on a Halal thread

The only crusade is by meat eaters on animals. 1.5 million years can't be wrong

If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one? Look at my dinner plate

The JW suggestion is ludicrous as they eat meat. (Why is there an anti-JW thing going on - they are no worse than many other cults). Being a member of a cult is one thing, turning up on someones door step and boring the pants off you is another

Perhaps for you an insight into understanding might be to transpose vegetarians with non-masons and freemasonry for meat eating? Freemasonry for the Masons! not the bankers, lawyers etc (off your topic but just how I feel)

I doubt if you have the capacity to change - perhaps you are too entrenched in selfish comfortable ways and ignoring reality. I have the capacity to change, 28 years ago I changed from a vegetarian into an omnivore

If you hadn't noticed vegetarians have left meat eaters alone -  they did not start this thread. They have certainly made up for lost time! It is a thread about Halal

Quite how as meat eating majority you feel threatened is beyond me - what really threatens you is you realise your ideals are wrong and prefer to make a fools defence. I don't feel threatened or frightened I simply choose to eat vegetarians

[/quote]

[Scooby]

Just to let you know - according to Wikipedia, a lot of the fast food chains (including some in the UK) now use halal meat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

So you may have eaten it without realising!  (Not that you would tell the difference)

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Quite how as meat eating majority you feel threatened is beyond me -

what really threatens you is you realise your ideals are wrong and

prefer to make a fools defence. I don't feel threatened or frightened I simply choose to eat vegetarians

Absolutely pml!!!!!

[buelligan]

Teapot quipped; [quote]

If you hadn't noticed vegetarians have left meat eaters alone -  they did not start this thread. They have certainly made up for lost time! It is a thread about Halal[/quote]

I hardly think that's fair!  This thread actually poses the question; Halal meat . Are you happy to buy it ?  I imagine, the answer to that for most vegetarians would be a resounding NO![:D]   As far as eating vegetarians goes, I suppose I can recommend it on the basis that we have been raised on wholesome food....but, I would add; come and have a go if you think you're hard enough![:D]

[Théière]

[quote user="buelligan"]

Teapot quipped; [quote]

If you hadn't noticed vegetarians have left meat eaters alone -  they did not start this thread. They have certainly made up for lost time! It is a thread about Halal[/quote]

I hardly think that's fair!  This thread actually poses the question; Halal meat . Are you happy to buy it ?  I imagine, the answer to that for most vegetarians would be a resounding NO![:D]

[/quote]

If only Dog had posted a simple No instead of going on and on and on, maybe he should change his name to "Duracell" [:D]

Read below the line buelligan, and be afraid very afraid [:D]

[Scooby]

[quote user="buelligan"]

I hardly think that's fair!  This thread

actually poses the question; Halal meat . Are you happy to buy it ?  I

imagine, the answer to that for most vegetarians would be a resounding

NO![:D]  

[/quote]But that's because it's meat - not because it's Halal meat...RTQ [:)]

[Dog]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Dog"]

[quote user="Quillan"]I don't have a problem with vegetarians, its their choice and good for them. What I do object to as a meat eater myself why they seem to have a problem with us meat eaters. I have no axe to grind with anyone on this subject so why can't vegetarians leave us meat eaters alone. All they do when they go on these 'don't eat meat' crusades is build animosity towards themselves from meat eaters. I am sorry but I am not about to change my eating habits for anyone for whatever reason. To my mind those that do go on and attack us for eating meat are no better than having a JW knocking on the door.[/quote]

 

Are meat eaters so sensitive and poor weak things that any idea that they should change their habits mummy taught them must be ignored. So if Mummy was a vegetarian would the same apply?

The animosity that is shown is by meat eaters imposing their diet on poor unfortunate creatures. Have only seen One person imposing their view, any clues as to who that might be?

Perhaps you should get an axe to grind - be careful though you may cut yourself. Who is grinding the axe? twenty four hours ago you started on a Halal thread

The only crusade is by meat eaters on animals. 1.5 million years can't be wrong

If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one? Look at my dinner plate

The JW suggestion is ludicrous as they eat meat. (Why is there an anti-JW thing going on - they are no worse than many other cults). Being a member of a cult is one thing, turning up on someones door step and boring the pants off you is another

Perhaps for you an insight into understanding might be to transpose vegetarians with non-masons and freemasonry for meat eating? Freemasonry for the Masons! not the bankers, lawyers etc (off your topic but just how I feel)

I doubt if you have the capacity to change - perhaps you are too entrenched in selfish comfortable ways and ignoring reality. I have the capacity to change, 28 years ago I changed from a vegetarian into an omnivore

If you hadn't noticed vegetarians have left meat eaters alone -  they did not start this thread. They have certainly made up for lost time! It is a thread about Halal

Quite how as meat eating majority you feel threatened is beyond me - what really threatens you is you realise your ideals are wrong and prefer to make a fools defence. I don't feel threatened or frightened I simply choose to eat vegetarians

[/quote][/quote]

For someone that didn't even know what halal is and hasn't watched it in person you have quite an entrenched view.

After 1.5 million years is this as far as the human race gets?

Your animosity is obvious - at least I don't eat the objects of my derision.

I think you may be closer to being a JW than you imagine.

I doubt if your understanding of what imposing means.

As I am sure you know it is not just meat that is halal,  not one meateater has mentioned this??

Is it because you do not really understand what you are eating and don't really care or just don't want to know?

 

[buelligan]

Now, now Théière!  If Dog had posted a simple NO!  He would have denied you many minutes of fun (and I don't think either he or you would wish that to be the case).[:D]  As far as being bitten in unexpected places goes, I have scars in locations most meat-eaters don't even have names for...[:D]

[Scooby]

Sorry Dog but we have killed animals and eaten them (for chickens it's either pull and twist until the neck snaps or a sharp knife, halal style).  For larger animals we usually use our (small) local abbatoir - because they kill them in a more humane way than we are able to.   The one thing I would say is that when you have raised and slaughtered an animal you don't waste food - to me that is sacrilege.  If we have killed an animal then I make sure none is wasted.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Just a question dog, if the whole world suddenly became vegetarian, would the planet be able to cope with demand?

[Quillan]

[quote user="Dog"]

If you cannot justify your choices how do you know you made one?

[/quote]

My personal justification for eating meat is that I like it. You justify not eating meat because you think its morally wrong to kill animals and eat them. Good for you, at the end of the day it comes down to individual choice. What I can never understand is why you have to be so nasty with those that don't agree with your point of view.

My mother is dead and I would ask you not to pass comments that to me are both upsetting and offensive.