bad taste in my mouth

[just john]

Despite spending 5 years working in and out of HK I struggled to come to terms with the regime in China, and since then have discovered the short life of anything manufactured there. Together with this latest news Akmal-shaikh-execution-china leaves such a bad taste in my mouth I will be avoiding anything made there, even if it is brico's best deal.

Anyone else feel its time for China to Wise-up?

 

 

[Quillan]

Well the thing is we only get to hear one side of the story as we all know. I would like to read more from the Chinese side before passing judgement although given that they don't communicate very well, if ever, on such issues its going to be difficult.

As to the sentence well thats a matter for peoples own conscience whether they believe in capital punishment or not.

[Théière]

I agree with Quillan, more of the facts required before making a comment, except the Chinese do have a policy and stick to it.

A friend of mine is also bi polar and has been for several years, when she is not suffering an attack she is 100% perfect as a mother and a wife, when suffering an attack is so unpredictable that anything could happen. Too unreliable to use as a drug courier?

[Quillan]

I am waiting for his UK doctor to confirm he was Bi Polar. I mean those that I know are treated with drugs so a simple confirmation through the UK doctor would be sufficient to validate what his family have said. If it were one of mine be them guilty or not I would try every angle to get them off. As I said not enough info yet to come to a firm conclusion.

[powerdesal]

Quite a few (most ?) Asian countries are known to have the death penalty for drug smuggling.

4kg of drugs is no small amount, get caught smugging drugs into China - death penalty. End of.

 

Callous attitude - perhaps, but I feel very strongly about drugs and drug smugglers.

[woolybanana]

One wonders whether he should really have been travelling alone?

The Americans seem to execute prisoners with mental problems all the time, so why pick on China?

[Hoddy]

I'm not picking on China. I am opposed to the death penalty. In my lifetime in this country (UK) at least one innocent person has been hanged. Given that this silly man tried to defend himself and was laughed at by the judges shows an attitude in them that I find deeply offensive.

Hoddy

[Frederick]

Radio report suggested his medical problem was depression China stated he showed no sign of serious mental health problems that would cause them so believe he did not know what he was doing .

As previousy posted 4 kilos is a heavy lump of heroin... and .. He knew what he was carrying . The whole world knows the country executes criminals .

[just john]

It's not just about Akmal-shaikh-execution, China leaves a lot to be desired in the whole human rights area.

[quote user="Quillan"]a matter for peoples own conscience whether they believe in capital punishment or not.[/quote]

I'm with Blackstone on this  "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", English jurist William Blackstone - 1760

[quote user="powerdesal"] Quite a few countries are known to have the death penalty for drug smuggling.
4kg of drugs is no small amount,  - I feel very strongly about drugs and smugglers.[/quote]

So do I - Death isn't justice though, and you'd have to be mad to think you could get away with 4kg in a suitcase?

[quote user="woolybanana"]  The Americans seem to execute prisoners with mental problems all the time, so why pick on China?[/quote]

Principally because of the difference in Human rights, Despite adopting a capitalist trading model, it has done nothing to follow the idea that if the world opened up to China, then the country would be more likely to improve in this area. As Copenhagen shows, China is not open to World view on Ethics, whilst quite happy to take our money for it's environmentally damaging products.

 

[Patf]

As others have said the mental condition he sufferred from didn't affect his ability to decide that what he was doing was wrong. Which it might have been if he was schizophrenic.

There was an interview with his daughter on the radio last week and she described a man who had been involved in various wild schemes.

I spent a few years in Singapore, and found that the chinese do go in for tough justice. Respect for an individual life is much lower than in the west. There's no way they are going to "wise-up" in a hurry.

[Bugsy]

The question as to whether he was or not carrying 4 kilos of heroin seems to be without doubt.

The death and destruction of so many lives that stuff causes leaves me in no doubt, whatsoever.

All dealers, suppliers and manufacturers should face the death penalty, period.

[Thibault]

Don't forget that awarding the Olympics to China was to encourage them to pay more attention to human rights.  Quite a success, then [:@]

[Théière]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I'm not picking on China. I am opposed to the death penalty. In my lifetime in this country (UK) at least one innocent person has been hanged. Given that this silly man tried to defend himself and was laughed at by the judges shows an attitude in them that I find deeply offensive. Hoddy[/quote]

The last executions in England happened on 13th August 1964.
Peter Anthony Allen and his accomplice, Gwynne Owen Evans were executed by hanging for the murder of John Alan West in April 1964.

The last execution in Scotland was on 15th August 1963.
Henry John Burnett was executed by hanging for the murder of Thomas Guyan.

The last execution in Northern Ireland was on 20th December 1961.
Robert McGladdery was executed by hanging for the murder of Pearl Gamble.

In Wales, the last execution was of Vivian Tweed on 6th May 1958 for murder.

The last woman to be executed in England was Ruth Ellis, who was hanged on 13th July 1955 for murder.

Which of these were innocent?

Why did your example (no name) try to defend themselves?

[Iceni]

[quote user="Théière"]

Which of these were innocent?

[/quote]

 

None of them - they were all found guilty.

 

The man in China was carrying the equivalent of 4 bags of sugar so hardly a case of "someone put it in my pocket while I wasn't looking". The punishment for this is execution - whether this acts as a deterrent is a moot point but it stops 1 person doing it again. 

 

John

[milkeybar kid]

Phew, glad I came across this thread. We were both thinking we were the only ones thinking your thoughts Bugbear!

The news this morning was non stop about it.

A chap summed up by saying Browns comments were a waste of space as Britain has lost all influence and credibility.

Why is it OK by Britain not to condemn Americas States that have the death penalty but go ballistic about China.

[Théière]

[quote user="Iceni"][quote user="Théière"]

Which of these were innocent?

[/quote]

 

None of them - they were all found guilty.

 

John

[/quote]

Yep you got my point [:)]

[Hoddy]

Theiere, in my lifetime in the UK the following innocent people were hanged: 1949 Timothy Evans, 1952 Mahmood Mattan and 1953 Derek Bentley.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear that it was Akmal Shaik tried to defend himself in the Chinese court.

I am second to none in my hatred of drug smugglers and I think the punishment should be harsh I'm just very uneasy about the death penalty.

Hoddy

[Russethouse]

Together with this latest news Akmal-shaikh-execution-china leaves such a bad taste in my mouth I will be avoiding anything made there, even if it is brico's best deal.

My father did this for many years after WW2,  we avoided Japanese and German made goods for years, until there were no viable alternatives and I doubt he was the only one.

[Richard51]

The UK is hardly in a position to criticize China.  It should clean up it's own mess first:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7058654.stm

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8389.php

[just john]

[quote user="Bugbear"]  All dealers, suppliers and manufacturers should face the death penalty, period.[/quote]

you missed out couriers, Bugsy; It doesn't matter because there will always be many little people foolishly following, as long as there are foolish people willing to buy (it takes two to trade), what about the role models, Nicole Richie, Kate Moss, Eddie Van Halen, et al, should they be punished by Death, would it cure anything?. Educate, Rehabilitate, Bang 'em up, work 'em on the chain gang whatever by all means, but capital punishment shows society's failure in my book.

I think the only success is in removing the manufacturers at source, but I don't want to just get sidetracked in the drug issue, my comment is about Human rights in China; where is the progress since Tiamen Square, with the Tank man or the PLA?

ps, whats to forgive in your signature?

 

[Bugsy]

Found this little snippet on bi-polar on another forum

"The China thread got me thinking it's amazing how this affliction seems to strike when your in the s!$% right up to your eyeballs or have chucked all your easy money away.

Kerry Katona chucked her fortune up her nose and all of a sudden she's bipolar.

Jordan/Katie Price makes a complete tit of her self and pisses off the public all of a sudden she's bipolar.

Robbie Williams takes £80 million off Sony and finds the muse has gone all of a sudden he's bipolar when Sony are pissed at him.

Jade Goodie, Michael Barrymore were another pair and the list goes on.

They have had a free ride now they're depressed because the real world is calling once again.

Get caught for drug smuggling or doing some other scam abroard and you're bipolar.

Yes they're all depessed as they've been caught who wouldn't at the thought of a bullet in the back of the neck.

What an insult to the poor people who really do suffer from this affliction and can't just trun it on and off when it suits them".

.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="just john "]

ps, whats to forgive in your signature?

[/quote]

Certainly not drug dealers - or polititions - or bankers. [:)]

I excluded users for one simple reason, they are, generally, the victims.

.

[Quillan]

If the guy was not British do you think Brown would have said anything?

Not only do we buy things from China but we borrow shed loads of money from them. Where do you think a lot of the money thats been spend in the US in particular and the UK to 'help' get both countries out of the recession comes from, China. Nobody seems to jump up and down about any of that. China also owns about 60% of the US oil reserves, a major part of IBM and has shares in Microsoft.

China does not 'force' its products on to us, we choose to buy them because we are greedy and want something for nothing or next to nothing. Everything has its price and its not just related to what it costs the consumer in hard cash.

I want to see his doctor confirm or deny he had mental problems before going further in that direction. To me this has not been proved. There is a lot of people out there that come up with 'crack pot' schemes but that alone does not mean they are mentally ill.

Why would there have to be a very long court case? The guy was caught red handed with the case and the drugs in his hands. Bit of a waste of time pleading that one out. I bet every drug dealer and trafficker in the UK jails will say it was 'planted' on them.

Unless proven different and with the lack of evidence all I can see is the family have tried the old mentally ill, didn't know what he was doing story, and it didn't wash.

So far I have read that he was behaving 'strangely' in both Poland and Singapore, where was his family then, why didn't they get him back to the UK if this were true.

I would ask those that have taken the moral high ground this, if your son or daughter took drugs that could have been proved to have come from what this guy had in his bag and died (god forbid) what would your attitude be then? Personally I would like to kill the person but others may decide differently.

It seems to me that we, the west, seem to consider ourselves to have very high morals etc but as we have seen in newspapers and on the telly anyone who is different from us have far less morals and not nice people. Who's to say what is right or wrong just because a country, religion or other group of people have what we consider less morals because they see things differently from us. I think we should look at ourselves first before judging others.

[baypond]

[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="just john "]

ps, whats to forgive in your signature?

[/quote]

Certainly not drug dealers - or polititions - or bankers. [:)]

I excluded users for one simple reason, they are, generally, the victims.

.

[/quote]

I always find the term 'victim' in relation to this type of thing a strange observation for most circumstances. I don't know of one person who hasn't tried a cigarette at some point in their life, but the most adictive substance, nicotine, didn't mean that they all became smokers, or a victim. Users are 'users' primarily because the vast majority chose to take drugs.

On the other hand, I would agree that many prostitutes are victims.

[Judith]

[quote user="baypond"] I don't know of one person who hasn't tried a cigarette at some point in their life,

[/quote]

Well, now you do, if you could be said to "know" me.  Never tried one, never wanted to try one. the smell was quite enough to put me off.  I had the same attitudes to drugs, and again, I've never considered trying them.

I think it must be said that in some cases, couriers (eg young women fron less developed countries) do it because they need the money to feed their families. etc.  It's very easy to judgee without knowing the full story.

I have not followed the story which started this post, but I do think it is very easy to allow one's prejudices to influence one's comments, thus I will not post again on this particular posting.