Accents and subtitles on TV

[NormanH]

This article suggests it is offensive to some to subtitle strong accents when spoken by black athletes.

The problem with the practice of captioning some accents is that it

automatically implies that these speakers are deviating from some

commonly agreed standard of comprehensible pronounciation.

But surely that is just it ...they are!

I need subtitles sometimes for American films, but don't get them.

I actually found the (dubbed) French version of Grab Torino easier to follow than the English original, and I hate dubbed soundtracks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/jul/19/subtitling-risk-racially-offensive

[Pickles]

[quote user="NormanH"]This article suggests it is offensive to some to subtitle strong accents when spoken by black athletes.

The problem with the practice of captioning some accents is that it

automatically implies that these speakers are deviating from some

commonly agreed standard of comprehensible pronounciation.

But surely that is just it ...they are!

I need subtitles sometimes for American films, but don't get them.

I actually found the (dubbed) French version of Grab Torino easier to follow than the English original, and I hate dubbed soundtracks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/jul/19/subtitling-risk-racially-offensive

[/quote]

Didn't they initially subtitle "Kes"?

I have seen subtitles used occasionally when Francophone Quebecois are being interviewed.

[NormanH]

That would have been useful for the wonderful Monsieur Lazhar, ironically not for the Algerian character who is perfectly clear, but for some of his white Canadian colleagues..

Click on the link for the trailer where you can hear this.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/monsieur_lazhar_2011/trailers/

[cooperlola]

Mr C needs subtitles for my Northumbrian relations.

At times I do think this is done unneccessarily with accents which I find perfectly easy to understand whilst other incomprehensible ones (I agree, often American - Nick Nolte wins top prize for being incomprehensible to me although I think he's a great actor) they don't bother with.  Surely the solution is to turn on the subtititle option if you need it and for broadcasters to  otherwise leave them off.  It does seem to be unneccessarily insulting to discriminate in this day and age when this facility is readily available in most cases since the advent of the digital era.

[Alan Zoff]

As someone with a hearing problem - especially with anything coming via a loudspeaker - I wish every broadcast had a subtitle option. The UK is well ahead of France with this. Indeed, I find French TV text services in general to be poor by comparison.  

[cooperlola]

I agree, Alan, France is c**p in comparison to the UK in this regard and really, it's not necessary for them to be so but it's true for many disabilities here, I'm afraid, not just deafness.  It's got better but still has a long way to go, imho.

[NickP]

During the 80's/90's I worked in Yugoslavia , and on the television every week in English with Serbo Croat sub titles was 'Allo 'Allo. We used to wonder what the locals thought of the British sense of humour as obviously that program was all about miss pronunciation and silly accents. The thing I liked about the program was that it took the proverbial out of every nationality, all of them were stupid and said silly things with silly accents, wonderful entertainment of it's type and unlikely to be matched [:D]

[NormanH]

I didn't even realise that a subtitle option existed except on CDs of foreign films.

I watch TV on the Internet for French TV and on iPLayer for the BBC.

Is there a a subtitle option in my case?

[NormanH]

[quote user="NickP"]During the 80's/90's I worked in Yugoslavia , and on the television every week in English with Serbo Croat sub titles was 'Allo 'Allo. We used to wonder what the locals thought of the British sense of humour as obviously that program was all about miss pronunciation and silly accents. The thing I liked about the program was that it took the proverbial out of every nationality, all of them were stupid and said silly things with silly accents, wonderful entertainment of it's type and unlikely to be matched [:D][/quote]

'Allo 'Allo.  was pure gold, but try to explain it to your French[:-))] friends

[Thibault]

I have a couple of French friends (who live in UK) who love 'Allo 'Allo, particularly 'the stupid Englishman who thinks he can speak French'

 

Slightly off topic, but still about subtitles:  I have never understood why French DVDs do not have 'French subtitles for the Hard of Hearing' option as most English language DVDs do (in English of course!).  I loved the original Les Rois Maudits which was broadcast on the BBC years ago, but with English subtitles.  When the new version came out, I was thrilled to see DVDs of the original for sale in Leclerc.  Of course I bought it, not expecting English subtitles, but French ones.  Of course there are no subtitles at all!  Although I can understand it, there are parts of the dialogue where subtitles would be more than useful.

The only French DVD with French subtitles I have is the wonderful 'Dracula pere et fils'  The version I got came from Amazon, Germany and has a French soundtrack with subtitles in French and German.  It is a truly wonderful film which sends up the Dracula genre in spades and stars Christopher Lee - I think it was his 'farewell' to Dracula.  I can really recommend it.

But, going back to my original point, how do hard of hearing French people get on without subtitles?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="NormanH"]I didn't even realise that a subtitle option existed except on CDs of foreign films.
I watch TV on the Internet for French TV and on iPLayer for the BBC.
Is there a a subtitle option in my case?
[/quote]Yes for i-player Norman. 

http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/access_iplayer/subtitle/

 I'll have to look a bit more into the French Internet TV thing to find out.  Certainly they are an "option" on the digi box but rarely availabe in comparison to the UK.  As I say, another example of the French being way behind for disabilities.

Like Thibaut, I've found the same with DVDs - a shame because I do like to use them to improve my spoken French - far easier with the subtitles so you can really learn the constructions being used.

Back on topic.  I was waching Gordon behind Bars this morning (fascinating series, btw, if you've not been following).  One of the inmates was subtitled when speaking whilt none of the others were.  As an experiment, since it was a recording and having read about this, I closed my eyes whilst he was talking and certainly he sounded perfectly clear to me.  And yes, he was black and no, none of the white guys, no matter how estuary, was subtititled.

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

Over here in the States, they frequently subtitle certain English accents. it's quite funny.

And also, as it's against the law for any swearing to be on normal American tv, they never bleep out the English swear words like bu**er, bollox, wank*r, bloody and the like. It's quite amusing for me.

[NormanH]

Thanks cooperlola [:)]

Richard I read an account in my University magazine of the career of a distinguished American academic who said that the first shock he had on arriving at Oxford was realising that  for the first time in his life he was the one with the accent [:P]

[idun]

I told a lady from Dorset that she had the same accent as a friend of mine. She said she hadn't got an accent......... and I burst out laughing and said that it wasn't just us northerners who had an accent.She wasn't very amused.

[idun]

I watch TV5 Monde quite a bit and a lot of it, in french is subtitled. Quite often Canadian stuff is, but not always. I have no idea how they decide what needs subtitles and what doesn't. Sometimes I can understand perfectly well with sub titles and then on other occassions the accents are so thick that they would be a help.