Bugsy Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I have a problem with the central heating failing to circulate water to the radiators. Pump is working but the pressure shown on this piece of kit has dropped[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/Bugbear2/IMG_0439.jpg[/IMG]What is this tank for ?I turn the tap supplying (Water?) to this tank up to the red-line (1.2 bar) and it all works. Next day same problem.Any ideas or suggestions please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Bugs, its an expansion tank, takes up the extra pressure when the water expands as it gets hot.The problem is you are leaking the pressure away again. That's why you have to keep topping it up.You have got to find the leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks Teapot, we have the plumber coming tomorrow.................this is best left to someone who knows what they are doing.....[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 An update for those interested.................Plumber came yesterday, serviced the boiler and seemed to have sorted the problem.Walked into the downstairs shower room late last night and there is water dripping through the ceiling...[:'(]Investigating this morning in the low cobweb-ridden loft space above the shower room and water is dripping out of one of the vent-valves on the heating pipes.Phoned a friend who suggested gently tapping the unit as the valve sometimes stick............tried that and its better but not totally dry. I guess its a visit to the plumbing shop now.Is this leak linked to the plumbers work yesterday, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 The plumber may have fixed a small leak which then allowed the pressure to build up a bit and find another weak link in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Seems pretty dumb to have a vent in an almost inaccessible roof space, you might ask about getting it relocated somewhere where you'll either notice if it's leaking or it can't do any harm if it does rather than waiting for another wet ceiling.Shouldn't the system be running a bit higher than 1.5bar though, I thought 3bar was the norm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 The vents are fitted at the highest part of the system which I believe to be correct Ernie. I wondered,regarding your second point about securing some clear plastic hose to the top of the vent unit and running it through the wall to outside. That would give a visible sign (I'd see it dripping from outside) if something was wrong and wouldn't cause any ceiling damage. Sounds like a good idea.The plumber re-set the expansion tank to 2 bar, which he said was correct for this system. Thats probably what caused the vent to blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Generally yes but whether it was out of necessity, convenience or just sheer laziness, running a pipe with such a a vent in a loft space is bad practice and it would indeed be an excellent idea to connect some sort of overflow pipe or hose to it. It need not be clear hose if it's going to overflow outside of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedon Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 At a glance your system would appear to be similar to my own. On mine the pressure gauge is situated in a dfferent place to yours and when the pressure drops (rarely) I open the handle which you can see just behind and above the gauge. [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/weedonwite/Boiler003.jpg[/IMG] When the system was first installed there wasn't an expansion tank fitted and water used to drip from a pipe behind the boiler and I had a bucket to catch the water which needed to be emptied once a week. After pointing out what I thought was a rather silly set-up the plumber installed an expansion tank on the end of the pipe that the water used to drip out of. There has been no problem with it in the 5 years it has been altered, and I rarely have to top up the system.[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/weedonwite/Boiler001.jpg[/IMG]I just wonder if, on your system having the pressure gauge situated where it is, when you open the tap to top up the system wouldn't you be filling up the expansion tank as well? I am no heating expert in any way shape or form, but my experience of expansion tanks is that water flows into and out of it in order to keep the system working. Perhaps if you are now constantly topping up the system there is nowhere for the water to expand except through your ceiling, which I can accept is not ideal[:)].If I am writing complete b******s just ignore me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 The saga continues.................I've been to the plumbers merchants today and bought three new 'Purgeur d'air automatique's'. I asked them about the siting of these units and they said that it is correct to have them fitted at the highest position on the system and that usually meant, in the loft. Our system was professionally fitted before we bought the house and I guess that there are many houses with these valves in the loft. Thats fine when they are working OK, but if they fail, they will let water out and into the ceilings below.I would suggest that everyone has a look before you are greeted with water dripping through the ceiling.They are not expensive, 5 euros each.I have a cunning plan to prevent this happening again. I am making a catch-tank with a pipe fed through the wall that will be fitted just below the valves so that in the event of failure, (a) it won't cause any ceiling damage and (b) I will know from any water running out of the pipe that I have a problem. I'll photograph it when finished.Having done all this it will, of course, never fail again..............[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 The highest point in any system has to be highest tap or the top of the highest radiator so the logic of extending that into the loft currently escapes me [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 You have to remember that this is a big, very old, stone-built farmhouse. The loft space is used as a distribution area for running the pipes to the different rooms of the house rather than running around the rooms, which would be difficult if not impossible. All pipes for radiators, bathrooms and kitchen drop down from the ceiling.The kitchen sink, for example is about 25-30 metres from the boiler room and viewing in a straight line, has part of the lounge, the utility room and the shower room in its way.Discounting the problem I now have, it seems pretty logical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I would like to join in this thread and post my holiday snaps of my boiler, but I have to admit I have no idea how to post a picture within the message box of the forum.Nevertheless, I will try and explain my problem, and hopefully somebody will have some idea of what I am talking about! When we moved into our property some 7 weeks ago, the owner advised me to leave the hot-water plugged in 24 hours a day, which was very nice giving us a constant supply of hot water, but then when I watched the dial on the oil tank almost moving downwards as I gazed on, it didn't seem such a good idea. So I put a timer into the system and set it up to have the hot water come on in the morning and evening, which seemed to work fairly well until recently. I now have water dripping out of the overflow pipe on the boiler, not vast amount, but the pot I have put under it needs emptying daily.Can anybody please explain why this may be happening. Is it in need of attention from a plumber (I hope not, I don't fancy that phone call in French)? Or if it is 'normal' should I be turning the tap on next to it, to top the system up?I know all the above sounds a bit gibberish, but if I could have posted a photo I am sure it would come over a lot clearer.Any comments gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 Welcome to 'french plumbing' Grecian.............[:)]My system also had the pump wired for 24/7 operation and I also still have the bucket under the tank overflow. It only needs emptying about once a month though.If you look at Weedons post you will see one option that he has employed.Regarding photos use something like Photobucket.Just register, download your photos and when done right-click on the bottom of the four (IMG code) code boxes below your picture, select copy. Then paste into your posts and voila, your picture should appear when the post is err, posted. Remember to re-size to about 650 or you'll get moans that your pics are too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedon Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I adopted the same system as you Grecian. The local plumber seemed surprised at my annoyance that the boiler would top up the hot water at 3am. So I have done what you do and bought a timer plug/socket to stop the boiler working through the night. I find that an hour in the morning and late afternoon is sufficient for hot water from March/April through to October.Before the plumber fitted the expansion tank he suggested I fixed a hose to the dripping pipe and run it through the wall but since fitting the expansion tank I top up the system only very rarely. Stopping the dripping pipe was my contribution to saving the planets water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 [quote user="Bugbear"]You have to remember that this is a big, very old, stone-built farmhouse.[/quote]Hard to remember what you don't know [Www]Seems a rather unconventional method of installation but I can understand the necessity in some cases.Grecian, I don't think the fact you have put a timer in will have made any difference but you might try just tweaking your pressure relief valve to reseat it. There should be a knob of some sort on it, careful if the water is hot though.My system also is inherently 24/7 but far too thirsty to run like that so I too run it through a timer mornings and evenings. It's still a PITA though because there is a selector switch for either HW or HW+Heating so once one or the other is selected that's it. If you decide it's too warm in the evening say, you have to go down into the garage to turn it to HW only but then you have to remember to put it back before going to bed otherwise there's no heating on in the morning. I've now gathered together the necessary bits to add a proper controller to it so should be getting stuck into that when I get home this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Thanks for the replies regarding my thirsty boilier, and my introduction to French plumbing. Ernie I tweaked the pressure relief valve, and it did release some air, and the amount of water coming out of the overflow pipe, is very minimal indeed now. Whilst we are on the subject of boilers, does anybody know what the price of oil per litre is at the moment, and totally showing my ignorance are there different grades of oil? I have seen it on Leclerc price board at 69.5 cents per litre, that seems a lot cheaper than some of the older posts I have read on here.Bugbear, thanks for pointing me in the direction of Photobucket, I have had a look at the site, and will get around to registering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I'm not in the market for oil at present but I believe there are 2 types (at least) the cheapest of which is just red diesel and may be more suitable for older boilers like mine (1995). We paid about 0.90c last May but I would expect it to be somewhat lower now, in the 60's perhaps. As ever regional variations seem to apply [:)]The other is possibly kerosene as typically used in UK and will undoubtedly more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Olive Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 hi ok how long has the house been " M.T " the valve you describe is a automatic bleed valve it lets air out of the system , normally fitted at the highest point , there also could be a second one for the hot water . with them fitted at the upper most point they tend to be prone to catching the frost , they freeze up easy and crack , have a looksee to see if it`s got a split in it , new ones are about €5 each .Weedon that system of yours looks ?? at least ... you see the circuit where the blue pipe is ... well that tank should be plumbed into that with the same size pipe ... looks like yours is connected to the group security Daveps someone move this to the diy section .. the pro`s might add some info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordon7890 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 This is a classic symptom of an 'air locked' system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 [quote user="Allkare UK"]This is a classic symptom of an 'air locked' system... Do this: find the small air bleed valves at the top of each radiator, and open them, if even a bit of air comes out you have likely found the problem. An experienced plumber can easily do the job.____________________Leak Detection[/quote]very helpful, even if 4 years too late [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 [quote user="nomoss"][quote user="Allkare UK"]This is a classic symptom of an 'air locked' system... Do this: find the small air bleed valves at the top of each radiator, and open them, if even a bit of air comes out you have likely found the problem. An experienced plumber can easily do the job.____________________Leak Detection[/quote]very helpful, even if 4 years too late [:(][/quote]At least they will be warm this winter after 4 cold ones [:D]However, from the website is the poster / company looking for any free advertising opportunities it can find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 [quote user="PaulT"]However, from the website is the poster / company looking for any free advertising opportunities it can find?[/quote]I have already reported this to the mods: I also have a suspicion that this is not the first time that this spammer has visited the site: I seem to recall requesting a previous version to be deleted a year or so ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 EDIT: Just noticed the date on this thread, reply deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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