Garages car repairs something to think about

[Gluestick]

[quote user="ventodue"]Hate to think what it might be today - but then again, I don't own a BMW![/quote]

I do: and insofar as  main franchised dealers are concerned, that's why BMW means Bring a Massive Wad!

[:D]

[Alan Zoff]

I have been lucky having a brother who is a first class mechanic, now a retired former garage owner. So I haven't really had a problem with garages until quite recently.

Biggest rip-off was a couple of years ago. Before heading off to France from England, a local garage was changing a cracked spring for me so while they had the car, I asked them to replace the plugs. V6 engine, so 3 in front bank and 3 in rear. Off I go to France. All's well at first but the car then starts to do bunny hops. Gets increasingly worse and as I had neither my brother with me nor a full tool kit, I called into a garage in Cerilly a few days before my return journey. Very friendly, yes we can sort it out, no problem, etc. 3 days and a huge bill later they had "found the problem as a blocked fuel filter" but they had managed to get hold of a new one (for 5 times the price I could have bought one in UK). Just in time for my return to UK. I asked for the old filter back which was left in a plastic bag in the boot.

50 miles up the road, bunny hopping starts again. 600 miles to home but managed to limp my way there.

Brother calls round and chops open the "blocked" fuel filter - which is in pristine condition. 5 minutes later he is roaring with laughter. The 3 plugs in the rear bank are all loose, ready to pop out. The UK garage had omitted to tighten them and the French garage hadn't even checked them in the 3 days they had the car, apparently searching everywhere for the mysterious fault. Brother tightened the plugs and the car has run perfectly ever since.

[PaulT]

Some years ago was in the parts department of a Ford dealership. Mechanic came from the workshop and said to the parts person 'I have not used these spark plugs can I change them for plugs for a (forget model). I assumed and do still assume that a customers plugs did not require changing but he was charged for them anyway. The mechanic now had a free set of plugs either for his own car or for one of his private customers.

[nomoss]

Frederick. Maybe you can cheer yourself up by thinking about it in this way:

If the job with the "book" time of 4 hours was done in 2 hours, you were privileged to have had the job done by a mechanic with above average skill.

I don't know where you work/used to work, but is it not a general rule that people with more skills get paid/are charged out at, more than those less skilled?

So you should be pleased that the work was done so quickly and so expertly [:D]

If you bought a service manual, with a few tools and a bit of effort, you could do the job yourself - provided you don't mind getting your hands dirty.

However, I get the impresson that you tend to look down your nose at anyone working with their hands, and think you can put a value on peoples' work based solely on the time they spend doing it.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="nomoss"]but is it not a general rule that people with more skills get paid/are charged out at, more than those less skilled?

[/quote]

Ought to be: however one of the hidden evils of unionisation and closed shops, was to try and place every person at the same mythical level of ability.

In practice this meant the better worker worked less hard: and generally, this concept caused de-skilling.

Bonus schemes were meant to overcome such problems: unfortunately, this caused poor workmanship as the less able rushed work to qualify for a bonus.

I used a scheme to overcome this, by paying on an overall shop productivity based on a carefully set mix of gross revenue and profit.

When the guy's bonus was reduced by lazy workers who were constantly having to re-do jobs, it was the workforce who complained and self-regulated, demanding the useless worker was fired.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="PaulT"]Some years ago was in the parts department of a Ford dealership. Mechanic came from the workshop and said to the parts person 'I have not used these spark plugs can I change them for plugs for a (forget model). I assumed and do still assume that a customers plugs did not require changing but he was charged for them anyway. The mechanic now had a free set of plugs either for his own car or for one of his private customers.[/quote]

Common practice unfortunately, Paul For example on service work, fitters would skimp the task, wipe over oil filters to look clean, bang out air filter housings, regap existing points etc and collect a useful range of fast moving service items for their PJs (Private Jobs) at weekends.

When I expanded into retail service and repairs (from a dedicated engineering and motor sports activity), for the first 6 months each and every displaced part was bagged and given to the customer (exchange parts were bagged separately; such as brake shoes etc). This built trust and confidence.

[PaulT]

Gluestick.......during which time the mechanics negotiated with the local scrapyard to provide used service items for them to bag and hand to the customer so they could use the new parts on their PJs :)

[Frederick]

Nomoss wrote :

I get the impresson that you tend to look down your nose at anyone working with their hands, and think you can put a value on peoples' work based solely on the time they spend doing it.

Could not be further from the truth .... Left school at 15 on the Friday started in engineering workshop on the Monday and know what Swarfega is for .

[YCCMB]

[quote user="PaulT"]Some years ago was in the parts department of a Ford dealership. Mechanic came from the workshop and said to the parts person 'I have not used these spark plugs can I change them for plugs for a (forget model). I assumed and do still assume that a customers plugs did not require changing but he was charged for them anyway. The mechanic now had a free set of plugs either for his own car or for one of his private customers.[/quote]

Isn't "assume" an interesting word?

[Gluestick]

[quote user="PaulT"]Gluestick.......during which time the mechanics negotiated with the local scrapyard to provide used service items for them to bag and hand to the customer so they could use the new parts on their PJs :)[/quote]

Not in my shop they bloody didn't! The nearest scrappy was miles away and they were all on the clock and under the eagle eye of a hard nose foreman! And it was myself who collected the displaced parts and booked the new service items from the stores! Having worked at manufacturer and distributor levels and some experience of the retail level, I knew most if not all of the dodges!

The workshop was booked for weeks in advance, with specialised (high performance and racing) jobs coming into Essex, from London and Kent, so we must have been doing something about right.

[Alan Zoff]

It would be wrong to tar all garages with the same brush. My brother is as straight as a die - which is more than can be said for some of the customers.

[AnOther]

But does he quote and charge manufactures hours for jobs or charge only for time actually taken, I can see potential for dissatisfaction in both methods.

[Alan Zoff]

I would have to ask him. He retired several years ago when a lot was done on trust. He was a small independent so saw a lot of cars outside warranty. I know from experience that problems are not always easy to diagnose and that older cars can have all sorts of hidden difficulties - rusted on parts, secondary problems, all of which can add greatly to time spent in good faith. An estimate is given based on the problem presented but only when things are pulled apart can all the faults be ascertained. The customer still wants to pay no more than the original estimate. If the garage charged only for the recommended time and did not make an allowance for the unforeseen, it will be out of pocket, as I know my brother was from time to time with difficult customers.

It's different of course with modern cars being serviced by dealerships where most things have been standardised. Although I remember at least one guy who used to come to the garage after the dealership had done any warranty work on his car so that brother could check it over to make sure it had been done properly.

[Théière]

[quote user="Frederick"]

Sounds like the garage industry is working a huge rip off here .The mechanics for a start if they are not putting in the hours worked but signing off on invoices showing that they had would be joining the boss in false accounting ... It would be child's play to check the hours they were paid for each week along with the hours the boss had down for them working on customer invoices . It seems like if you find a garage with an HONEST owner you are going to be lucky .[/quote]

So this great rip off, they told you the hours, the charge and you accepted it. Not usually how a rip off is carried out. More you whining afterwards. Professional garages also charge you for clean up and invoicing time, something I never did which is why the shop was in chaos for a lot of the time.

Now regarding rip offs that happens everywhere, anyone employed who stands and discusses anything from snooker to any other subject is ripping off whoever is paying.

[Quillan]

We could start on football if you like, thats got to be one of the biggest rip off.

[PaulT]

Perhaps the garage owner should just have said to himself x hours at £y = £z for the job and then just said £z and not mentioned hours and happiness all round.

[mint]

Yes, Paul, that would be best, non?

After all, what the old buzzard doesn't know isn't going to upset him?