Is it just me?...

[Nathalie]

Hi

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a lot of moaners out there?  I've been reading this forum and (another one) quite avidly over the past couple of weeks and what is particularly striking is that people seem to complain a lot about just about everything.  The price of electricity, the cost/quality of food, the unavailability of cranberry juice, sultanas and christmas puddings (huh?), the buying process, the toughness of steak, amazingly the "high" cost of the taxe fonciere (swap it any day for our council tax!), the justice system, even the insects and so on that make home in peoples properties (surely not the fault of the French!!).

It begs the question: if it's that bad, why stay?  Is the "dream" really an illusion?  Or do we just get blase about things?  Or are we just a nation of whingers??  (No-one's complained about the weather, mind!).

We're buying a house in 22 and so far everything has gone really smoothly.  The owner has told us what she's leaving behind and the agent and notaire have been super-efficient.

So the doom and gloomers aren't going to put me off!!

Right got that off my chest....

Nathalie

 

 

 

 

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

[quote]Hi Is it just me, or does there seem to be a lot of moaners out there? I've been reading this forum and (another one) quite avidly over the past couple of weeks and what is particularly striking is ...[/quote]

Life's just like that. It doesn't matter who anyone is, where they are, what their nationality is, people moan - it's just human nature! But don't look at it as criticisms of France or whatever it's all about - it's mostly just observations - the facts or how people perceive things, and you do get all sorts of opinions - we all react in different ways.

[Teamedup]

Yes, it must just be you.

 

In France, the french consider discussing life as perfectly valid and they do! Things like, employment, justice, education, politics, corruption,  the health service, immigrants etc etc.........and food and wine too ofcourse (including quality and price, especially since the euro where everything has rocketed)!!

 

And some of us pay comparible local taxes to those in the UK.

 

Re the justice system here, well, I wouldn't wish for anyone to become embroiled with it under any circumstances.

 

 

 

 

[Russethouse]

I think Jill is right, a lot of things are observations, but also its the nature of forums too.

If your EDF bill is roughly what you expect you are hardly likely to post about it, but if it seems a lot for your time in residence or the tariff you are on, you would more likely to comment on it and/or check it out here.

I'm glad things have gone well for you and hope they continue to but I suspect you had done some research before hand ?

Nearly half the British people who move to France, move back to the Uk within 2 or 3 years, better IMHO opinion to read about possible drawbacks here than make a costly and possibly life altering mistake out of ignorance!

[Penny29]

Hi,

Gosh I remember being starry eyed when we were in the process of moving out here and I, too, thought that everything in France would be better, cheaper, easier etc.

After 2 years (so, still in the "apprenticeship" phase) I still love living here but I am much more realistic about things now and, even if it is called moaning, I would rather warn people before they come out here that France is an expensive country to live in - food is not cheap, utility bills are high, banks routinely charge for things which would be free in the UK, and some people I know do pay Taxes Foncieres which are a least comparable to London Council tax bills.

For us all this is worth the "trade" - the trade being to live in peace and quiet, surrounded by countryside and natural beauty.

 

[letrangere]

Nathalie, I too find it strange that people move to France and then complain that they can't buy cranberries or Christmas pudding, actually not strange, quite amusing, others may say sad.  But their "moan" is a warning to people like them that perhaps this isn't the promised land the media has been promoting relentlessly in recent years, so their observation (and others like it) could be interpreted as a useful warning.

I mentioned the high cost of powering a home yesterday as it's the one aspect of French life (along with the horrendous personal taxation) that we are not looking forward to when we move back.  The question was asked and the poster got his answer, which he admits he finds helpful.

Most Brits appear to have picked up the fact that council taxes are often lower, they also know wine and cigarettes are cheaper.  But a surprising number (I'm not for one moment suggesting you) haven't a clue about much else and, as Gay says, this results in many of them heading home very quickly.

France is a fabulous country to live in but it's far, far from perfect.  (Where is?)

M

[bonbon]

Cranberries and cranberry juice..... very good for you.

I'd be pretty miffed if I could not find these in France.

Bonbon XX

[Will]

Bonbon - prepare to be miffed. Just because something is good for you doesn't mean to say it will be freely available in France - except from specialised ex-pat (I hate that term but use it advisedly in this context) food counters which will give the price moaners plenty of ammunition.

It's not for nothing that the English are called whingeing poms.

In France the British enjoy something of a cheapskate reputation, where saving the last cent is vital, whereas the French take a longer-term view and will usually pay more for something of good quality.

TU is right that the French enjoy a good moan as well, but the difference is that they are rather ashamed to admit to shortcomings and keep things among themselves more, whereas for some reason the English, particularly those overseas, seem to take great delight in whingeing loud, long and publicly - though they are reluctant to do anything constructive like make a proper complaint.

I know these are sweeping generalisations and am sure they don't apply to a lot of the people here (I hope not to me anyway ) but it never fails to amaze me just how many do conform to these stereotypes.

[Iceni]

Nothing is for nothing.

In Oct 03 we exchanged life in an overcrowded, noisy, graffiti scarred village in N Essex for an 8 dwelling hamlet in underpopulated N Lot. The big village next to us - capital of commune - has a population of just a few hundred compared to 1500/2000 in UK yet has more amenities, shops, businesses than our former place could dream about. We have peace and quiet (absolute necessity for old *****) but some things cost more than in Essex, some the same and some are cheaper.

Bureaucracy here is a nightmare, the locals do not have a word with the urgency of manana, they all speak a different foreign language to the one I was taught, I cannot find decent porridge etc etc, posters on this forum keep asking the same questions that have been asked a million times previously and many will not visit their Mairie, DDE or Prefecture to find out from someone who really does know -  but to us at least it is a price worth paying.

And yes I do moan from time to time (shirley not says Di) but hey, isn't that the very thing for which Poms are famous ??  And sometimes I think LF would be a better place without Post Bag. But where could we go to have our whinges ? There isn't even a proper pub let alone a Public Bar.

And now we are off to market to buy cheese etc - but typical, they do not sell plastic cheddar - what a place !!!!!!!!!!!

John

[Cjb]

Yes, there are lots of whinging people on this forum, but then again that should be no real surprise as this is often the nature of forums and certainly the nature of the Brits.

I would certainly agree that any moan related to "French Administration" is entirely justified, as I'm sure would the majority of french people. However, some people tend to forget that the problem of going in search of a new paradise is that we are failing to take into account the most complex of problems, namely, the fact that we have to take ourselves with us!!

[Jon 1]

So the doom and gloomers aren't going to put me off!!

Right got that off my chest....

Nathalie,

It seems to me that this posting is because you are feeling a little insecure and nervous at the moment, and thus seeking reassurance you have made the right decision.

Are you saying that you have never had a good moan in the UK?  It is part of the human condition, so very much doubt whether you can say yes to this!

Like the UK, France has similar and other problems which warrant a good moan from time to time.

In all honesty I can find more to moan about in France than in the UK.  However, the positives still outweigh the negatives, perhaps in quality rather than quantity.

[Russethouse]

>>we are failing to take into account the most complex of problems, namely, the fact that we have to take ourselves with us!!<<<

Hit the nail on the head !

There is no mystical transformation that takes place mid channel - you do not arrive in France 'a better person' (although you may become one - given time) IMHO Before anyone decides to move they should be pretty sure they know themselves, their strengths and limitations.

Whats the old adage - sometimes it is better to journey hopefully than to arrive !

[Miki]

Jon,

I think that is a very good way of putting it. I agree with your posting.

 

 

[Biereventre]

Re the Forum.

Yes there are people on here who sound like a broken record. They're obviously not happy in France and let everyone know it. You have to learn to live with them or ignore them as there is an awful lot of useful info here.

Re France

We think our lives are a million miles/km better than the UK but it's not the land of milk and honey. We expected to work hard when we came over and it was harder. But we love it.

Everyone's different and each to their own.

Paul

http://www.unique-crafts-from-france.com/

[Teamedup]

Will, folks certainly don't act ashamed or keep things to themselves with me/us. I love the heated debates at table about all these moans, if anyone wants to call them that...... for me it is life as it is. We usually draw something amusing from it all too, as someone will have a quip. I enjoy it all thoroughly and there is no better way of knowing what is going on as when one is involved in one of these debates.

And if I remember properly Nathalie is buying a holiday property with friends and/or family. I have no idea as to how much she or the rest of the group really know about this country or how their ideal will be affected if one of them dies for example and children are involved.

The dream, never had the 'dream' and don't want it, I'm too pragmatic for such a whimsical thing.

 

And quality of life, well, my quality of life dropped radically when I moved here, and as I don't like a poor quality of life, we improved it as quickly as was possible. If there is a universal idea of France now, well my friend said that she would send me soap when I moved here........that is how at least she viewed la belle France in 1981.

[opas]

TU you make me smile your quip about a friend sending you soap brought back memories from about 1987...I had just handed in my notice at work and told all my work coleagues that hubby and I were off in our 9 metre yacht around the Med for two years(it turned into 5 !) I was forever being asked if I had eaten garlic again....of course....One work mate ,who was suposed to be intelligent asked `where will you get your garlic now?????` duh!

So Nathalie ,next time you go to the pub/winebar with a group of friends ,why not see how far into the night you are before one of your mates has a whinge/moan!  part of lifes rich tapestry

[Val_2]

Nothing like a good moan. Clears the air and makes you feel better afterwards,AND there are no better moaners than the French I can tell you.

[Mysfloss]

[quote]Nothing is for nothing. In Oct 03 we exchanged life in an overcrowded, noisy, graffiti scarred village in N Essex for an 8 dwelling hamlet in underpopulated N Lot. The big village next to us - capita...[/quote]

When we speak about bureaucracy, I remember my dad having to report to the police station every week in the uk because until he was naturalised he was an considered alien,anyway if you are non national in the uk there are many things that you obliged to do that uk nationals take for granted.So I wonder if we as immigrants are having to do the same things for the first time that we demand of immigrants into the uk.Just something I thought whilst reading this thread.

[Sprogster]

Dare I say the whole point of Forum's like these is to learn from other peoples experiences,good and bad.

It would also get pretty tedious if all one ever read was how marvellous everything was.!

Having taken delivery of a new build house in April ,part of a development of 24 houses, I have been totally unfazed that it was a year late and six months after moving in we still cannot get France Telecom to connect any phone lines to any of the houses.

You see,I was prepared by the forum to expect the worse,so no surprises or undue stress.

Now where is that next bottle of wine.! 

[Teejay]

[quote]Hi Is it just me, or does there seem to be a lot of moaners out there? I've been reading this forum and (another one) quite avidly over the past couple of weeks and what is particularly striking is ...[/quote]

Nathalie, I too read this forum from time to time and I can honestly say that all the subjects you have mentioned I generally avoid.  It is not obligatory to read everything.

If as you say your preparations for purchasing a home in France have gone smoothly why highlight the trivialities.

Surely for some people this forum is just a way of touching base.  No more, no less.

So people moan.  So what!  It's clearly not affecting your decision to buy. 

Good luck.

 

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

[quote]Cranberries and cranberry juice..... very good for you.I'd be pretty miffed if I could not find these in France.Bonbon XX[/quote]

I can't actually say I've seen them in England. A few years ago I needed them, and all I could find was horrendously sweetened "juice drinks". I've never seen them in our local Tesco or Sainsbury's. In fact, I've some blackberries in our freezer which we were given and I'm still waiting to find some other soft-fruit at a reasonable price to go with them to make a summer pudding, but it looks like they'll wait in the freezer until next year.

As for Christmas puddings, they aren't difficult to make. I remember reading in a book by someone who had moved to France about needing to get their Puddings and Mincemeat from Harrod's - they were struggling for money too! Doesn't equate really, does it?

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

[quote]Bonbon - prepare to be miffed. Just because something is good for you doesn't mean to say it will be freely available in France - except from specialised ex-pat (I hate that term but use it advisedly ...[/quote]

"In France the British enjoy something of a cheapskate reputation, where saving the last cent is vital, whereas the French take a longer-term view and will usually pay more for something of good quality."

I've noticed this with French friends who are possibly on lower incomes than many of our friends and ourselves, but they live much better in terms of food, and when we go out with them, they are far freer with their money than we would usually be. For example, they have often insisted on paying for entry to parks/sites etc whereas instinctively, and with English people, each family (in our circle of friends at least) would pay for themselves. So now when we meet with friends in France, we find ourselves fighting them to pay for things. They are such generous hosts in general.

[letrangere]

Jill,

I like your observation for I also feel that outwardly the French do appear to have a better standard of living than their British counterparts.  Actually we experienced something very interesting at first hand when we lived, and my husband worked, in France.  He worked alongside a couple of guys who were of similar socio-economic background, identical education/professional background, they held similar positions, were paid similar salaries, etc.  Yet their standard of living and quality of life was far higher than that of the colleagues my husband had left in London. 

M

ps:  what are you doing up this time of day?  I've never seen you post before this side of midnight

[Nathalie]

Hi again

Well, they were very interesting replies.  I did fail to mention, I'm not starry eyed, I was born in Boulogne and lived there until I was 18 and moved to England .... so I am aware of the good and bad sides of both countries.

Another post within this Post Bag hits the nail on the head - it's not France's fault that people get disillusioned it's the high expectations that they have that fail them.

France is not paradise - it's a country with as many faults and strong points as any other.  Although French born I don't honestly know whether I'd want to move back, as much as I love it, at the moment my rose tinted specs are firmly on and if I and most of you out there have the best of both worlds - then we have indeed found our paradise!

Thanks for not being too harsh with me, anyway!

Nathalie

 

[Cliodhna]

Ever hear of the expression - whinging pom ?