Chirac's France?

[SaligoBay]

"Chirac's prime objective after being elected in 1995, set out in a landmark speech the previous February, was to repair what he called France's "social fracture" - the gulf between the rich and the poor, the haves and have-nots, the employed and the unemployed. He would push through a fundamental reform of an education system that was "failing far too many pupils", ensure every French citizen had a decent home and slash unemployment, then standing at 11.6%.

Ten years later, unemployment has climbed back above the 10% mark, a controversial education reform act was finally passed last month and, according to two government bodies, three million French citizens are either waiting for affordable accommodation or living in unacceptable squalor.

Mr Chirac also promised to cut the public deficit, which has climbed from 1.4% in 2001 to 3.7% last year, and government debt, which has soared from €496bn (£336bn) to €1,000bn. He has kept his pledge to cut income tax but increased indirect taxation and other contributions, and despite promising to radically overhaul France's creaking social security system, he has presided over a 15-fold leap in the health service deficit alone, to a staggering €12bn."

Hasn't he done a marvellous job!   

[Teamedup]

And he got in again at the last election, although the alternative....... well, I'd rather not think about that.

 But it just goes to show that 'the people' here as everywhere sometimes make choices that I don't understand or like for that matter.

 

 

 

[Miki]

"...Hasn't he done a marvellous job!"

Wonderful indeed, it's a joy to be here !

As TU said in another thread, even the flipping social taxes have increased. What did they do before to collect that kind of serious money ? I remember well when it affected us and I received a bill out of the blue for CRDS and CSG, I thought by the acronyms, it was money for the riot squads to be able to buy sharper cudgels and RayBans.

Now around 11%, do I recall it right, it was for the national debt to be paid off, the debt that started when none of us poor Brits were privy to getting the benefit of getting in to debt. Oh how it hindered our progress on the pile of stones, every metre of work cost us 10cm's more in costs !

We have better than the average chomage figures here but we have the fish gaffs now getting in to gear and the tourists are arriving from gay Paree, so a few can come off the old sausage until October and then we will be once again a few percent above the average.

The figures you quote have got me pretty gloomy, I thought the debt was close to being paid off but now it appear it is further from sight than ever before.

I am choked, I promised Tina a fake lapin fur for the winter this year and now......well sorry honey but the Donkey jacket will just have to be repaired and "make do" until perhaps Chirac pays off the debt himself from the loot he has stashed away (Allegedly !)

[Richard-R]

Wonderful man. He's change there entire social structure. He's made the rich, a little poorer and the poor even poorer.. Tax and spend. A good few people would like to know more about the spending bit ( like where and on what?). The tax bit seems straight forward. Only a fool try's to repair an economy by incresing taxation across the board, time and time again. It seem s like the 70's in the U.K. at times.

[Miki]

[quote]Wonderful man. He's change there entire social structure. He's made the rich, a little poorer and the poor even poorer.. Tax and spend. A good few people would like to know more about the spending bit...[/quote]

.........but without the Bee Gees, tank tops and flares ;D

[Teamedup]

The trouble is that Black Jack has many years left in office.

I really would have like to see how Jospin faired as President. Helas that was not to be. He just seemed such an unusal man you see, he actually seemed to be a politician with some integrity. Whether this would make a good president I have no idea either.

[chicfille]

I agree TU. Although I'm no socialist we listened to the debate between Jospin & Chirac in 1995 and Jospin won hands down in our opinion, with his frank and coherent answers. Chirac just had more charisma and it doesn't take much more than that to convince the people it seems (n'est pas Tony?!).

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

It`s the old saying if you aint got it they cant tax it,that aside how long do you have to wait in the UK for a doctors appointment or even an operation and how many appointments are cancelled,the system might be straining here but it serves the people who need it.Many times have we been given 4 appointments on the same day each with with a time and each time on the allotted time gone through to see the doctors.

 

[Teamedup]

In our bit of the NE of England, you phone the GP's at 8.30 am and get an appointment the same day. It has been like that since last year. And no waiting when you get there, they seem to pretty well stick to the times and will give a double appointment if there is something specifically important to be sorted out.

 

Ops, well I don't know. I do know that some of the surgeons around here in France are booked up for quite some time. And that inevitably means a waiting list.

[letrangere]

In our bit of the NE of England, you phone the GP's at 8.30 am and get an appointment the same day.

My goodness you're lucky, TU.  You'd better not let on where exactly you are in the UK or else there'll be a mass migration!  Admitedly my recent experience of NHS GP appointments is strictly limited to that of my late aunt but it's bad enough.  At the age of 84 and already diagnosed with cancer, was told she had to wait almost a week to see her London GP when her chest flared up one winter.  Too shy to argue, too polite to ring again she merely waited.  I can't believe it's as difficult to see a doctor anywhere else on earth as it is in Britain.  Surely staff should be trained to give priority to the elderly?  M

[Teamedup]

I believe that most of the NE is like this now. They have got to grips with the  appointments system and sorted it out, as they should have done all along.

When I was back recently I had to make an appointment for someone and knew that it would take longer than usual. Time allowed is 10 minutes per patient and I asked and got a double appointment immediately and that was quite sufficient time for them to sort out everything with their GP. In fact they were exactly 20 minutes in with the doctor.

There were options of nurse practioners as well as the GP being available.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

MJW,could not agree more,as for TU and her comments,I will bet 5p that the doctors not one in the Newcastle iner city boundary??Try and get a dentist in the UK here you can walk in off the street and if you want to wait a short while and be seen to there and then,I am not a francophile by any means but if credit is due it is givern and if those people who can afford it have to pay a little to keep the french health system like it is well good.

 

[GRT17]

[quote]I believe that most of the NE is like this now. They have got to grips with the appointments system and sorted it out, as they should have done all along. When I was back recently I had to make an ...[/quote]

I agree with you T.U and it's pretty much the same where we are in the S.E.

Appointment systems for seeing your G.P. have changed but many (not all) who have lived in France for more than a year or so are still harping back to "the olden days" and what they remember of their life in the U.K.

Gill

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

The GP,s maybe, what about the dentists??

[Russethouse]

Same here, in fact the system of doctors appointments (being too quick) was complained about in the election run up! You are seen within 48 hours.

Dentists ? I have a National health dentist, I am offered two tariffs and the advantages are explained, but its up to me which I choose. My mother had to have 'private' dentures as her dentist said that for what he was paid he couldn't give a good result - to be honest thats not really very new and was certainly the situation in the 60s, in some places at least.

It certainly used to be the case that you do not 'sign on' with a dentist, you have your examination and you are both obligated to each other only until you are dentally fit. Then you are free to go elsewhere and the dentist is free to not see you again, if they so desire.

[Teamedup]

There are NHS dentists available where I'm from too. I know because I had to go and ask my Dad's dentist something about changing his bridge and asked whilst I was there if they are taking on NHS clients. That was only a few weeks ago.

I know where I am from wouldn't suit everyone, but goodness there is many a southern accent when I go back now. Even some french people in the area. And some very very stupid people on the local council, IMHO, there again, I'm pretty used to that here, so no change there then.

[Tourangelle]

I don't think it was too quick that was complained about during the election, the lady concerned had wanted to make an appointment later in the week and had not been able to. I can confirm that the 8.30 system is in place in the West Midlands too.

[Clarkkent]

Isn't it fascinating how any posting which is even mildly critical of France is seized upon as an opportunity to bash the British NHS?

[Russethouse]

Why do you think this is 'bashing' the NHS ?

It used to be a complaint that it was hard to get an appointment with a GP, now the system has changed and due to some misunderstandings in the administrations in some group practices, its hard to make an appointment for say 1 week away - you have to wait until 2 days before then keep dialling ! This situation became evident on 'Question time' and seemed to be something that had escaped the Prime Ministers attention.

[Clarkkent]

Saligo Bay's original post was:

 "Chirac's prime objective after being elected in 1995, set out in a landmark speech the previous February, was to repair what he called France's "social fracture" - the gulf between the rich and the poor, the haves and have-nots, the employed and the unemployed. He would push through a fundamental reform of an education system that was "failing far too many pupils", ensure every French citizen had a decent home and slash unemployment, then standing at 11.6%.

Ten years later, unemployment has climbed back above the 10% mark, a controversial education reform act was finally passed last month and, according to two government bodies, three million French citizens are either waiting for affordable accommodation or living in unacceptable squalor.

Mr Chirac also promised to cut the public deficit, which has climbed from 1.4% in 2001 to 3.7% last year, and government debt, which has soared from €496bn (£336bn) to €1,000bn. He has kept his pledge to cut income tax but increased indirect taxation and other contributions, and despite promising to radically overhaul France's creaking social security system, he has presided over a 15-fold leap in the health service deficit alone, to a staggering €12bn."

Hasn't he done a marvellous job!

An interesting observation about either:

the inability of a man with consummate political skills to achieve much needed reforms in a country whose constitution and culture prevent essential change

or

a portrait of a self-regarding scoundrel who would do (and say) anything to obtain and retain a position of power and privilege.

(Select any 1 from 2)

Then along comes Outcast who introduces the subject of health care into the discussion and - hey presto! - it becomes a discussion about getting appointments with GPs in England.

Chirac's France indeed!

[Turnip]

[quote]Saligo Bay's original post was: "Chirac's prime objective after being elected in 1995, set out in a landmark speech the previous February, was to repair what he called France's "social fracture"...[/quote]

Yes Clarke - this thread was becoming interesting until it went off topic. What we need is a moderator to keep things on topic (Chirac and France), a sort of "referee" perhaps?

[Russethouse]

All you need to do is to post something to the thread that is back on topic - otherwise threads go much like 'real life ' conversations.

I have to tell you that such interference as you suggest, from mods, is usually greeted with negative comment from other forum members. You can please some of the people some of the time.............

[Teamedup]

I suppose that was why the old format on the board was good. Several conversations could be held at a time on the same thread. Still even with outcast's comments there was no reason why the comments on Chirac's France couldn't have been kept up.

Black Jack was waiting in the wings all the time Tonton was president and when Tonton gave it up, then he was sharpish in to replace him. I can't say I was a great fan of Mitterand, but I still prefered him to Black Jack. The lesser of two evils really, or so it always seemed to me.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Chirac`s France,what is the french health system if not here in france,part of Chirac`s france is it not,the fact that is the red to some tune,the service on the ground in my experience beats the english health system hands down.

SB,in the original post quoted several things and health and the amount it was in the "red" was one of them,so outcasts comments are spot on once again.

 

[Teamedup]

LOL outcast, but Saligo's post said what a mess the french health system was in financially, not extolling it's virtues. Believe me, it is not the system it was.