Changing Times ?

[Miki]

We have had 4 delightful French students stay here this week, two had their Mothers with them. It is their "Gap year", (didn't really know if the French students actually did that, as quite honestly, we mostly know only students that are friends of our own kids, whose ages of course are similar and none of them had ever done so).

Anyway, two of the girls had just returned from around 5 months in Australia and for the last couple of days, they have been saying just how great their trip had been. This morning, one of them was talking with Tina and said that she would be moving to Australia after Uni, with one of the other girls to live. Why she was asked, because, they said, it was far more laid back than France (they live near Bourges)and it had a much better lifestyle than they had in France.

Yep, my first thoughts were, a holiday can give one a false ideal about a place, so I questioned them on that front and they both said, no, they were positive it is better and French friends already there, had also told them just how better life was in Oz ! The "degrees" they are taking were OK for them to work and live in Oz and so in two years, they were toodling orf and leaving behind a stressful and a "dog eat dog" (my translation from their very descriptive words, about the way they see it) culture behind.

I would be interested to hear what our French mate, Vraititi, would say about that ?

[SaligoBay]

Where is Vraititi?   I hope he hasn't got bored with us.

At one of the parties we were at last night people started talking about how hard life is for youngsters nowadays.  No prospects, either jobwise or propertywise, and even if you do get a job, it's chacun pour soi, there's no solidarité in the workplace any more.

What I find sadly lacking in France is a sense of optimism for the future, at all levels.  Many old people just accept that life has to be hard and a constant struggle, because they've never seen anything else.  But youngsters who travel have their eyes opened, and if they find that it's possible to be optimistic, you can't blame them for wanting that.

 

 

[Monika]

[quote]We have had 4 delightful French students stay here this week, two had their Mothers with them. It is their "Gap year", (didn't really know if the French students actually did that, as quite honestly, ...[/quote]

This sounded so familiar: I have a very good friend who has told all his married children to go to Oz, because, as he said, there is nothing good left in this country, meaning Britain. This makes me quite angry. There are good things and bad things about every country and I hate this defeatism.

I think Britain for instance, had it never better than now. Our French neighbour remarked on it, saying that all English seem to have a big disposable income, when he was in England in the Eighties he saw a lot of old cars. Now all English have beautiful expensive cars (apart from us with our little Corsa!!!) and they can afford to buy property (true).

[letrangere]

We've lived in Aus and it is marvellous.  If you earn loadsa money, Sydney must be the best city on earth to live in.  If you want to bring up a family, I can't think of anywhere else better than Perth, WA.   It has the best climate on the planet too.  Didn't get to Adelaide but Melbourne was terrific, if a bit damp in the winter. 

Don't recall meeting any French people during our time there but thinking about it now, I can't think of a country or people that's more different to France.  It's so forward thinking, free and easy, in-your-face, though pleasantly so.  Possibly the only thing the Aussies share with the French is pride in their country.  (Won't say wine as my views on that revolting old oaky stuff are unprintable!)  Will it be that easy for these French youngsters to get working visas though?  Many Brits we bumped into found it quite tricky unless they already had a job lined up or relatives to sponsor them. 

I guess I'm in an odd position compared with many on the Forum in that some of my closest French friends are in fact expats themselves, and have been for many years.  Most are in their 40s and 50s but to a man they sadly see France as an old, dying country out of step with everyone else in the world today.   I'm not saying I agree with them, incidentally, just representing their view.  Several have children who have graduated from French universities and cannot find work, one has been unemployed for approaching two years.  His parents are putting pressure on him to move to Quebec where they have friends and feel he will have far more opportunities.  The others just shrug and say what do you expect, it's France.

M

[Alexis]

My eldest daughter is off to Australia for a year next week.  She lives in Britain and she just fancies a change and a bit of excitement.....  There is nothing to keep her in the UK.

Good luck to her!  I'm getting  a bit long in the tooth now but I used to go on adventures once

[le bouffon]

Dont you just love air travel 24 hours and anyone can be the other side of the world,200 hundred years ago one had to either be a criminal or a sailor to be sent to this new land called australia.Just thinking about all that air pollution the planes make and would anyone go to oz if it meant three weeks on a boat?

       As for france dying what was the UK like in the 80,s France will come round,I remember the german Dmark at over 3 to the £ now look at it,what goes a round and all that.

[SaligoBay]

As for france dying

I don't think anyone is saying France is dying.  It's just not offering its yoof what other countries do - hope, money, jobs, opportunity.

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

As I explained 3 weeks ago, I'm not going to be butting in too often in the foreseeable future, for professional and personal circumstancial reasons that I do not want to expand on in here, I'm having to re-jig priorities in my life at the moment, and sadly, that involves working like hell doing 2 jobs for 3 people 7 days a week, till 9pm on weekdays (and then pretty much straight to bed) and also at week-ends away from home, thus giving me absolutely zilch free time at the minute, so that's what I'm doing ! Not complaining, just explaining.

Miki, I wouldn't feel too sorry for your French students, at least they can go and sun themselves for mos on end down under (No Erasmus programme or charter flights in the late 60's when I started studying). In my time, none of us could afford the air fare to anybloodywhere, it was hitchhike or stay home, or at a push Interrail, for the really well-off bourgeois from St-Mich'. Dog eat dog à la française ? Well, not new I'm afraid, I worked a yr for the private sector in the 70's and that was tough even then. Obviously, there's more competition in the private sector worldwide now than 30 yrs ago, but the competitive element is no worse in France than elsewhere in the Western world, quite the contrary on many accounts I feel, should workers lose their job they're often rewarded with decent redundancy money + top dole money for 24 months. Not to mention better work protection (through legislation, militant unions, etc.) than in most countries, etc. so, if I were your French students I wouldn't feel too sorry for myself ! Anyway, who says French students are stuck in France ? Maybe they'll have a job getting their degree recognised elsewhere but the possibilities to get a proper foreign degree on the cheap-ish now are about 100 times better than they were 35 yrs ago. I never discourage students to go out there and study and work abroad, broadens your mind and you liver, and offers plenty more options professionally and sentimentally (pour causer poliment). I urge them to get out there, to avail themselves of the immense opportunities now offered to them everywhere, whether it's in their homeland or not, and I urge them to find their niche, not just be content to follow the herd into those dead-end degrees in piss-artistry that most inevitably lead to oversubscribed non-jobs. I often advise them to retrain if that's the case, to learn a proper skill, decoration, plastering, that sort of thing. Last yr, a ex-student of mine who'd done a no-hope degree some yrs ago did some plastering work for me, he could not find any decent work after his degree and had taken heed of my advice to re-train as a skilled worker down at the local college. I really don't buy into this perma-state of 'sinistrose' in France, whilst part of it is of course legitimate so much of it is blown out of all proportion by the media. It has ALWAYS been the case in France, for as long ago as I can remember, most of the media have always taken great delight in accentuating the negatives in society to the nth degree (problems of all sorts exist and might worsen but what about the myriad more options available now -especially for students- ?), they were saying exactly the same in the 70's, sometimes, I suspect they just re-vamp the same articles as in the 70's, slap a new date on and hey presto, job done. Critics have coined a term when talking about Houellebecq, they call him the writer of 'déprimisme' (mind, ça lui va bien). Don't fall in the same cauldron.

[Miki]

"Miki, I wouldn't feel too sorry for your French students"

Hi Vraititi,

Sorry for them ! I was bluddy envious !! And Margaret, they assured me that the work they intended to carry out (science based) was indeed sought in Oz.

I see your point about French students moving around the world to find work, where at least I hope they will not find the same problems that foreigners (i.e inc Brits)have in finding work here. I think that France and the UK are both now regretting not pushing kids in to the manual trades, where now I hear, many jobs in Carpentry, sparkies, plumbers and paint/decs are in short supply in many parts of both countries.

The problem at the moment though, is that in the 70's work was somewhat easier to seek, whereas now things have moved on a pace and it is far more difficult to find the work one really wants and finding almost any job in our part of France is difficult indeed. Yes, long time chomage helps but in the mind it is terribly defeating. I am not the media and do try not blow anything out of proportion, I can only speak from what I see and hear from the friends of our own kids and the sheer numbers of kids now out of work in our region..

Sorry about PSG, to go to the "one time" giants and lose 3-0 must be terribly hard to suffer mon ami ! But our local team, Rennes went to Monaco and came home with the spoils ! Sadly ex Chelsea player now boss of Monaco, Didier Deschamps then quit......

Good points though as normal. Good luck and hope all the hard work pays off....you will now know how it feels to work like an British B&B owner for 24 hours (less sleeping time !) 7 days a week !!

[letrangere]

or at a push Interrail, for the really well-off bourgeois from St-Mich'.

Dear old Interrail, didn't you just love it?  All those nights spent sleeping on platforms (Beograd was the best for me, Charleville-Mezieres (where was I going???) the worse), lugging your rucksack on and off trains (Bale/Basle and that blasted station change) and remember how it was always such a steep climb up on to European trains?  You had to be in Olympic athlete condition to even get on.  Not the same today, thank goodness.  Though at least you could throw your luggage in and out through the windows then, which is no longer possible and always frustrates me now.  But I digress.

Vraititi as always makes a very interesting point, namely why shouldn't young graduates consider working in areas where there are jobs, such as plasterers, etc.  All highly skilled professions, personally I've always been entranced watching bricklayers at work.  But by and large isn't it a question of status in France and elsewhere?  Middle class parents who've encouraged their children to work hard, win a place at university, graduate with a good degree may possibly (tho' wrongly in my opinion) regard it all as a waste of time and money if their offspring then decide to take up plumbing.  And that's irrespective of how lucrative their chosen profession may be.

M

 

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

As an Australian living in Australia (for another two weeks), I can say that your friends will be appreciated in Australia with their qualifications.  This is because those with decent qualifications in Australia are quick to leave the country and seek out the more appropriate salaries in other countries.  Australia does not pay its educated people very well which sees much of our intellect leaving our shores. 

Lynda 

 

[Evianers]

We lived in Perth for 5.5 years - we hated it! Perth itself is lovely but obviously we wont go into details of why we found it so objectionable. Couldn't wait to get away. It is a case of chaque un son gout. What appeals to some, doesn't make others happy.

[Russethouse]

If you only knew how hard I had tried to persuade my son to be a plumber, but no go I am afraid.......however my sister is having more luck I think her son might be an electrician.

[Christine Animal]

So this is why they're all going there!  

<script language=javascript></script>Vendredi 23 Septembre 2005 Le roquefort fait son retour sur les tables d'Australie Au bien nommé magasin "Le fromage qui pue", dans la ville branchée d'Adelaïde (sud), les gourmets australiens se sont réjouis vendredi du retour annoncé sur leurs tables du roquefort, banni depuis une dizaine d'années par crainte de la listeria. Les clients nous en demandent "tous les jours", assure le personnel de la fromagerie, théâtre d'une mini-cérémonie destinée à célébrer la levée officielle de l'interdiction de vendre la pâte rayée de bleu, affinée dans les caves d'Aveyron, dans le sud de la France. Les services de la sécurité alimentaire australiens avaient fermé la porte au roquefort, stigmatisant des risques de contamination par la bactérie listeria. En raison de ces menaces, l'Australie n'autorise que l'entrée des fromages fabriqués avec du lait pasteurisé, tandis que le roquefort est fait à partir de lait cru de brebis. Le gouvernement français déposa en 2003 une demande de dérogation, mais il fallut attendre deux ans pour qu'elle soit accordée. Pendant ces longs mois d'étude, les responsables sanitaires se sont notamment rendus à Roquefort, en mars 2005, "pour se persuader de notre parfaite maîtrise de la fabrication, de la traçabilité et des indicateurs sanitaires", se souvient depuis Rodez (Aveyron), Thierry Zurcher, directeur général de la Société des caves de Roquefort. La visite a convaincu les experts, a souligné le secrétaire d'Etat australien à la Santé Christopher Pyne, parlant d'une dérogation exceptionnelle. "La certification ne concerne que la vente du roquefort, qui est fabriqué selon certaines conditions spécifiques en France", a-t-il déclaré à Adelaïde. Les services australiens ont conclu que le fromage représentait "un faible risque pour la santé et la sécurité des consommateurs". Un avertissement sera cependant joint au fromage, recommandant aux femmes enceintes de ne pas le consommer. "Un long combat s'achève sur une victoire avant tout symbolique", déclare M. Zurcher. La décision australienne ne devrait cependant avoir aucun effet sur la pression fiscale appliquée par les Etats-Unis, où la filière roquefort exporte entre 500 et 600 tonnes, regrette M. Zurcher. En Australie, le patron des roquefort espère en exporter dix tonnes "d'ici à la fin 2006". Avant l'interdiction australienne, trois à quatre tonnes y étaient écoulées chaque année, sur une production de 18.000 tonnes, dont 4.000 pour l'exportation. Une première commande d'une centaine de kilos a quitté l'Europe en direction de l'Australie la semaine dernière et une autre doit partir dans les prochains jours, selon le responsable. Les clients du "Fromage qui pue" devront donc patienter encore un peu. "Nous espérons que le processus prendra environ un mois", explique la gérante de la fromagerie Tania Cavaiuolo